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http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/do … .htm]China, ASEAN work towards creating world's largest free trade area
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China aims to send a spacecraft to the Moon in three years' time, the head of the country's space agency, Sun Laiyan, has confirmed to the BBC. as well as building their own orbiting space station
There are many other benefits from Space, better mapping of the Earths surface, increase in broadcasting, better productions of communication satellites, launch of commercial equipment, imporved aerospace designs, military and nuclear missile benefits and of course the more recent space-tourism. Trading space technology could China' s of securing a powerful position. China also desires the power and control over everyone else in the long term buck like the Spanish empire had influence or the USA had superpower status. At this point in time many of the developed countries are being stupid and abandoning their space programs and paying them minimal attention in terms of funding. A number of economists have said that whoever controls the infrastructure for public access to space will control the next century and the destiny of the globe. Back in 1999 people had an idea that China might begin to aim for Space, back then it first successful test of a spacecraft designed for manned fligt. While the same low power propulsion technology used in the maiden flight could also be used to alter the path of the defense missiles, military expert Song Yichang told the state-run ChinaBusinessTimes newspaper and suddenly the cash was flowing to and from the China military.
There are some who are aware of the potential of the Chinese. Recently the Pentagon has released its yearly report to Congress on the current and future military strategy of the People’s Republic of China (PRC), including that nation’s active use of space. There are some who desire to fight for a couple of barrels of oil in the middle East and it looks like China is going to stay clear from this fight. It has been written while others fight for the last drops of oil, China will be trying to increase its might and look to other sources of power. China wants to get up to speed while all the other countries aren' t developing their space programs any further and, once the pendulum of space technology development has gained some momentum, it is likely China' s rate of development by that point will have made significant progress. For space, the Washington report underscores Beijing’s advancement of military space capabilities "across the board", including reconnaissance, navigation, communications, meteorology, small satellite technology, and human spaceflight in the future. There are other future plans too, like as part of on-going work in seek-and-hit space warfare -- termed "counterspace" in military parlance, China is expected to continue to enhance its satellite tracking and identification network is what has been written in the US .
There is also the fact that the global economy and other world affairs are starting to change. China had a wicked communist system, some terrible human rights abuses happened and the country was seen as a bad guy. However now in the last ten years China has changed hugely. To compare the system in China today to one 12 years ago , or to a time when China was ruled by the wicked Mao would be to almost compare Germany or Japan of the 40s to that of the system in the 60s. China is changing fast and it's economy is growing rapidly.
The global economy is facing big change and Bush isn't doing much with the American economy, all those jobs lost. The USA space program has also taken a hit since the unfortunate colombia incident, and the finance doesn't look so good however with some effort they should be able to reshape the program and get NASA back on the straight track. World economics have also become an important factor, China has looked to nations like Korea or Japan and seen the wealth these places can get by selling their designs and computer manufacturing abroad, it is very possible that China desires to have a more open and more powerful economy. Lately other nations in Asia have seen their economic problems increase, and Japan looks like it might back some huge cut backs on its space program and close of it's space plans. An unstaedy economy in Asia, or a dying pension system in Japan is what worries other countries, the Japanese look to stay out of the 10 year recession that dragged their economy down and it looks like space will no longer be an investment. China knows that it has the chance now to prove it could become the strongest and leading force in Asia for the next century.
The Chinese economy is an economy which has come out of very bad conditions. China was ruled under an iron fist, there was little freedom and the dictator Mao had a stronghold there with the military running the country. Today things have changed in China and the current climate can be compared to the growth and change that Japan had. After the war the nation of Japan was very poor, it had gone through big changes ruled by a wicked Imperialist leadership and its radical despots, the climate began to change in Japan and it moved forward politically and economically and now we see similar things happening in China. There is now talk that some China's largest maker in Shanghai, Beijing and HongKong are starting to buy into or purchase European/American companies, in business trade there is much info that Beijing is poised to buy IBM's personal computer manufacturing business and set up production in the Middle Kingdom. Some have said it is negotiating a possible deal to buy IBM's PC-making business for up to $2bn. New York Times said an IBM sale would be likely to include all of its desktop and laptop computers business, Chinese PC market is expected to grow about 20% this year and it is laready the world's second largest PC market.
However there is planety of other Market and economic movement the China company TCL International Holdings bought the television arm of France's Thomson to create the world's largest TV manufacturer which could be set to dominate the future. Chinese companies and the China government are watching to see how S.Korea and Japan copied many Western ideas in the 60s such as their production of radios, their copy of American/European automotive sectors and the TV business, the Chinese expect that they can repeat the economic growth of Korea, Singapore, Thailand and Japan but not make the same mistakes. The Chinese have already come out of the Asian economic crisis without a scratch, and production is set to rise inside the country, the Chinese also have a huge labour force and China is a market of over 1.3 billion people, there is also info that Shanghai Auto is buying 48.9 percent of South Korea's Motor Company and the Chinese are in talks with Britain's MG Rover towards setting up a venture. When it comes to space there are some facts one must acknowledge China is way behind NASA right now, it also hasn't done as much as ESA with its ion drive study and comet missions and lacks the experience of the Russians and their very good rockets. However China is growing rapidly and its space and NASA seems to be stuck in some trouble right now and hopefully NASA will be able to get its manned space program moving again.
During a recent Space gathering in India the Chinese annouced that they will launch its lunar orbiter Chang'e 1 to explore the Moon and study the thickness of its soil by the end of 2007, people suspect that China wants to do something big before the Olympic games.
Nations have also been realligned and we see the effects of a world market, the IMF and Globalisation. A key example of this type of idea of change could be the Euro and the EU, the EU is becoming like the US a formation of states bonded together under a common policy, a single set of rules and a currency. The European area has also begun to expand and has jumped from 15 nations up to 25, the euro has become a good strong alternative to the dollar while Europe still has many plans in aerospace designs, manufacturing and space goals with the ESA. The ESA is small now and has made mistakes but it also has made great projects and could also become much stronger in the future like NASA built itslef up, Europe has also created the idea of a European defence force a type of all area army much like NATO. Is this what the future could bring? A number of key superpowers having influence on the world, three different Superpowers like the EU, China, and the US. Is this what it means for China to be fast on track?
There is military potential in space. Without sattelites, our bombs and planes wouldn't fly to where we want them, our communications would be back to the 1800's telegraph line type systems, we wouldn't have the advanced reconnaisance or surveillance capabilites that we have today, so we wouldn't have a good idea what to bomb in the first place. To be able to gain these systems for your own country, or blow up the enemies sattelites is a huge deal.
China hasn't really become an Economic dragon yet, it has gone far since the days of Mad Mao and the wicked communists ways. The cities are open, the nation is open and free to many foreign companies and we can even see Mao's face on Coca cola posters. China has been changing much like Japan did or S.Korea, a big showcase was when in 1988 - the year Seoul hosted the Olympic Games
it was not long before this that the Koreans were very far behind with with some economic reform, internal changes and increase in production they became big international names making TVs, motorparts and electronic equipment, their names are everywhere Hyundai, Samsung, LG (Lucky Goldstar) and SK (Sunkyong) having been selling much. Look at how Chinese industrial production and political reform is going, the days where the words communist dictatorship were used to describe the nation have passed. The Chinese economy has been growing at a rate of about 9 percent per year since the beginning of 1980, is what is said by many Western economists. It is also a market of 1.3 billion people , this also means they have a huge labour force and can produce stuff quicly and cheaply. They have also said they are more open in their space quest and are will to work openly with the Western nations. More recently China has been working closely with the ESA's study of Earth's magnetosphere, going with Europeans Cluster / Double-Star mission.
Recently China has also been updating its missiles and other military designs. China has launched the first submarine in a new class of nuclear subs designed to fire intercontinental ballistic missiles. It was widely known China was building the new class of nuclear-missile submarine, called the Type 094 but the launch is far ahead of what U.S. intelligence expected. China recently deployed a new torpedo that can break the sound barrier underwater using a pricipal called supercavitation. The US and NATO torpedos max out well under 100 knots. China is working on a cruise missile version of that torpedo that can be launched far off the coast of the US, come screaming in at over Mach 1, and then 'pop up' out of the water at the last second and strike. The United states the Pentagon said China's cache of ICBMs could increase to 30 by next year, the Chinese already have quiet a few Nuclear missiles so with the French and their atomic bomb testing and Russia doing new weapons the Chinese now have an excuse to update their systems. Some missiles and nuclear warheads the Chinese have already worked on are the, its been looking at MIRVs, ICBMs and studying the ability of Neutron bombs it maybe will change. China plans to triple its long-range missilesand & trying to make missiles like the CSS-4ADF-5A icbm , a DF-21A, the CSS-6, a CSS-4, the DF-4, a CSS-X-10 and the JL-21A it also has others that it hasn't given full info to the public about but you can read up on writings from US militray experts.
Some wonder if the US political moves have pushed some partners further away and maybe the EU in space closer to Russia and China. Maybe t already has. Imagine its 1974 not 2004 and Russia is planning to launch spacecraft from a FRENCH facility in South America and help the South Koreans build launch facilities. The Chinese are staring to learn this political game, that's why they want a part of the EU new network in space, the Galileo satelite system, that is why they have been calling for more international partnerships in psace and commercial launches and that is why they went for an ESA-China scientific collaboration in the the future missions and previous projects like Double-Star. There is much to be learned in space, and there is much political and scientific benefit outside of space. It is true that China is young and a whole lot can go wrong, but so far they are on the right track.
'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )
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China's economic numbers for 2004 are in, and it's another year of impressive growth. Some links:
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.as … siness]Tax revenue up 25.7%
Chinas]http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1105397411490&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795]China's bright future
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi … ome]Record trade, record surplus
I don't have the December 2004 trade numbers for the US or Germany, but China's trade growth might have been sufficient to make China the world's #2 trader overall and the #1 exporter in December.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005- … .htm]China is also getting interested in astronomy. Lets hope they go ahead and build a 100m OWL type telescope.
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They will far surpass us. They out number us. They don't give all there money to foreign countries nor do they give as much during times of disasters.With child labor they will out produce us.
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They will far surpass us. They out number us. They don't give all there money to foreign countries nor do they give as much during times of disasters.With child labor they will out produce us.
Outproduce? So what if they do?
The entire Chinese economy is centerd around supplying foreign demand with cheap labor and unrestricted industry, which is a percarious situation to have in the long run. There is indeed a "China Bubble" of sorts, and as the demand for quality of life in China increases, then so will labor costs... as democracy increases, so will calls for environmental restrictions... and then there is the cost of socialist-style welfare states... and to top it off, the point of Chinese pride and political stature, its huge military will need updating to face the challenges ahead.
Oh no, this situation won't last forever
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]
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Within a century, at current population growth rates, the US will have a population equal to one third or even one half of China's. So all the US needs is two or three times the economic output per person to stay ahead. Until China can open up more and encourage personal creativity, it is not likely to surpass the US; that means big changes in culture, not just economic policy.
Meanwhile, no one is watching India! It's population is approaching China's and will surpass it in the next few decades. China's one-child policy will produce a huge social security problem in about thirty or forty years. India doesn't have that problem. It is a democracy and has a huge English-speaking population. It has rule of law (more or less). And it now has pro-growth economic policies. In 100 or 150 years, India may be number one, China and the US vying for number two. Who knows.
-- RobS
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India overall though has a major disadvantage industrially speaking, I think it will be hard for them to become the reigning global economic power. Thats not to say they can't become large and strong, just not likly dominant.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]
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The entire Chinese economy is centerd around supplying foreign demand with cheap labor and unrestricted industry, which is a percarious situation to have in the long run. There is indeed a "China Bubble" of sorts, and as the demand for quality of life in China increases, then so will labor costs... as democracy increases, so will calls for environmental restrictions... and then there is the cost of socialist-style welfare states... and to top it off, the point of Chinese pride and political stature, its huge military will need updating to face the challenges ahead.
I don't think that we will see a "China Bubble". Nearly all of the profits made from China's recent economic growth are being reinvested into infrastructure and education. Graduation rates for Chinese colleges have doubled in the last four years and are expected to double again in the next four. While there is a limit to how much China can grow while being the world's center for cheap labor, a well educated high-tech China is the future and it can still grow a lot more before it stops.
Don't let the "communist" designation fool you, China right now is as capitalist as the US, and even more so in some respects. They also spend proportionately much less than the US on the military; While 0.5% of people in the US are part of it's 1.5 million person military, only 0.18% of China's population is part of China's 2.3 million person military.
Meanwhile, no one is watching India! It's population is approaching China's and will surpass it in the next few decades. China's one-child policy will produce a huge social security problem in about thirty or forty years. India doesn't have that problem. It is a democracy and has a huge English-speaking population. It has rule of law (more or less). And it now has pro-growth economic policies. In 100 or 150 years, India may be number one, China and the US vying for number two. Who knows.
India has the potential to be very powerful, but they are a bit behind China. If all goes well, in ten years India could be where China is now economically, but by that time China will have advanced considerably further. While India could be an economic superpower in the long term, China will be one in the short term.
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They will far surpass us. They out number us. They don't give all there money to foreign countries nor do they give as much during times of disasters.With child labor they will out produce us.
Outproduce? So what if they do?
The entire Chinese economy is centerd around supplying foreign demand with cheap labor and unrestricted industry, which is a percarious situation to have in the long run. There is indeed a "China Bubble" of sorts, and as the demand for quality of life in China increases, then so will labor costs... as democracy increases, so will calls for environmental restrictions... and then there is the cost of socialist-style welfare states... and to top it off, the point of Chinese pride and political stature, its huge military will need updating to face the challenges ahead.
Oh no, this situation won't last forever
You are all too correct, It reminds me of another asian economy that blew up not too long ago.... except the fundamentals for China are much worse.
China's GDP growth for 2004 is expected to be ~9.1 percent while Exports grew by 25%! Exports are 40%+ of the Chinese economy, add in 4% inflation and thus the nominal growth in exports is greater than the sum of the whole nominal GDP growth in the entire country!
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Within a century, at current population growth rates, the US will have a population equal to one third or even one half of China's. So all the US needs is two or three times the economic output per person to stay ahead. Until China can open up more and encourage personal creativity, it is not likely to surpass the US; that means big changes in culture, not just economic policy.
Meanwhile, no one is watching India! It's population is approaching China's and will surpass it in the next few decades. China's one-child policy will produce a huge social security problem in about thirty or forty years. India doesn't have that problem. It is a democracy and has a huge English-speaking population. It has rule of law (more or less). And it now has pro-growth economic policies. In 100 or 150 years, India may be number one, China and the US vying for number two. Who knows.
-- RobS
China's working age population will actually peak in 2013, and then begin to shrink indefinitely. Chinas productivity growth over the last ten years has actually been quite low, lower than the US', and has been declining, the reason behind China having strong growth is because it has 15 million people every year entering the workforce and leaving agriculture. The one-child policy will actually come back to bite them. The size of the Chinese population aged 1-15 has been declining dramatically since 1975.
China has many other serious problems among them being ulta-high investment with low growth per investment dollar, especially compared to India, and a giant load of the worst kind of debt; nonperforming/bad loans, that makes Japans post bubble bad debt look like childs play, at 50% of GDP!
The ultimate main problem that, although the government is trying to supress it, riots have been skyrocketing in the past few months. And any hiccup to the economic growth cold lead to tiananmen or worse uprising. The only excuse the PRC government has for existing is economic growth.
China seems like the miracle of moden times, but in fact, the more you look at it, the more it is like a leaky dike with bubble gum plugging the holes....
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I aleady posted this but no one seemed to see it:
Behind the mask
Mar 18th 2004
From The Economist print edition
http://www.economist.com/images/2004032 … 204SU8.jpg
Hailed as the business opportunity of the century, China is bound to disappoint. Sameena Ahmad (interviewed here) examines the mismatch between excitable perception and sober reality
THE whole world's gaze is fixed on China—not just because the country is vast and growing rapidly, but because it profoundly affects the fortunes of companies everywhere. Around the globe, shelves are stacked with the low-cost goods churned out by “the world's workshop”. Chinese-based manufacturers suck in imports and dictate global prices of everything from steel to microchips. For foreign companies, a huge market beckons as China liberalises its relations with the rest of the world, having acceded to the World Trade Organisation in 2001.
China's progress since it first opened to foreign investment and reform in 1978 has been dazzling. Over the past 25 years, its real gross domestic product has expanded at an average of 9% a year. Growth in foreign trade has averaged 15% annually since 1978; China's trade surplus with America is now twice the size of Japan's. And every week, more than $1 billion of foreign direct investment flows into the country. All this testifies to the global integration of China's economy, now the sixth-largest in the world with a GDP of $1.4 trillion.
This rapid growth has ensured political stability. Whereas socialist regimes around the world have crumbled, China's Communist Party survived the 1989 Tiananmen Square uprising, the 1997 Asian crisis and last year's SARS virus without making concessions to democracy. The present leadership is well-educated, capable and pragmatic.
Internationally, China has become respectable, more a partner than a threat. The continuing debate about the “undervalued” yuan says more about partisan American politics than about Chinese mercantilism. Domestically, the government is well aware that its political acceptance derives solely from rapid economic growth, and will do whatever is necessary to meet its internal benchmark, an annual rise of 7%. China's leaders still call themselves communists, but they have become capitalists in practice. If they have a guiding philosophy, it owes nothing to Mao or Marx, but is best summed up by Deng Xiaoping's famous dictum: “It doesn't matter whether the cat is black or white, as long as it catches the mouse.”
The combination of growth, stability and potential has set off a tidal wave of foreign enthusiasm for China. Businessmen return from pilgrimages to Shanghai and Beijing convinced that this is China's century. Robert Bestani, head of the private-sector arm of the Asian Development Bank, calls the phenomenon “future shock”—change so rapid that it seems like a vision of the future. Dietmar Nissen, East Asia president of BASF, a huge chemical company, says that “the speed and scale of growth in China over the past 12 years is a miracle. It is a miracle that China is developing in such an orderly fashion.” Messianic terms are de rigueur when discussing the country's 1.3 billion consumers, its vast pool of low-cost workers and its need for every imaginable product and service. Goldman Sachs, an investment bank, predicts that by 2040 China will overtake America as the world's biggest economy.
This survey will cut through some of the hyperbole currently enveloping China. Progress there is as real as it is dramatic, but the country is still in transition from one political and economic system to another. The constraints imposed by the communist leaders (not least on themselves) have produced “a darker reality” behind the impressive statistics and soaring skylines, in the words of Orville Schell, a professor at Berkeley who knows the country well.
http://www.economist.com/images/2004032 … CSU946.gif
Look on the dark side
China needs 12m-15m new jobs every year just to keep pace with its population growth. It has to provide opportunities for the 800m people living in rural areas who have been left behind by the current boom, and a third of whom are under- or unemployed. It also has to deal with the 100m-150m migrant workers in the cities who have no job security, no long-term housing and no health care. And it needs a functioning pension system. No wonder the government is concerned, above all, with growth and job creation.
Currently there are worries that the economy is overheating. Bubbles are beginning to form in property, steel and cars, and power generation is running up against capacity constraints. China's real problem, however, is not inflation but overinvestment. In its quest for growth, the government has directed its state-owned banks to open the taps. Easy credit is producing massive overcapacity, leading to deflation, more bad debts and fewer new jobs. Already, nine-tenths of manufactured goods are in oversupply, yet investment in fixed assets last year grew by 30% and contributed 47% of GDP. Three-quarters of China's growth comes from capital accumulation, according to Paul Heytens and Harm Zebregs of the IMF, yet total factor productivity—a measure of overall economic efficiency—rose by only 2% a year in 1995-99.
http://www.economist.com/images/2004032 … CSU461.gif
Even for a developing economy, China's level of investment is unusually high. South Korea in its period of rapid growth in the 1970s and 80s had investment levels closer to 25% of GDP. But the biggest concern is that China's growth is staggeringly wasteful. Whereas in the 1980s and 90s it took $2-3 of new investment to produce $1 of additional growth, now it needs more than $4. Even India, often compared unfavourably with China, is now more efficient on that measure (see chart 1).
Only a very high domestic savings rate—around 40% of household income—and the uncontrolled exploitation of its natural resources make it possible for China to waste capital on this scale. But neither is sustainable. With little social welfare on offer from the state, the Chinese need to save to provide for themselves. And environmental degradation and noxious pollution are storing up costs for the future. All this means that China's growth will have to slow markedly unless its government wants to drown in debt—maybe not this year or next, but soon.
That is yet another risk for businesses already facing a host of challenges. China's developing capitalism is not solidly based on law, respect for property rights and free markets. It is unbalanced and potentially unstable. Multinational companies operating in China have often failed to produce an adequate return on their investment, or indeed a profit of any sort. That is partly their own fault, because they overestimated the market and underestimated the competition. With experience, more are getting it right. However, the business climate in China remains capricious and often corrupt.
Chinese firms contribute to that climate. State-owned enterprises are much more concerned to maintain patronage and employment than to generate profits, and even the best are not globally competitive. China's fledgling private businesses, by contrast, have shown astounding growth and produced the country's first crop of wealthy entrepreneurs. But they are still too small to offer an effective counterweight to the state sector.
It is in the financial sector that China's brand of “not wholly black, not fully white” capitalism works least well. The banks do not allocate capital rationally, and they are vulnerable to external shocks. Yet the potentially huge cost of reforming them will constrain the government's ability to finance economic growth. That will have implications for China's political stability, and for its attractiveness as a place in which to do business.
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China?!?! What the hell??? They just sent their first takinaunt.....or whatever they're called into space! How can you say that China will be the dominant nation in 20 years?
:angry: Hey! I'm chinese!
[url=http://forumofstuff.proboards34.com/index.cgi]http://forumofstuff.proboards34.com/index.cgi[/url] MY FORUM ^_^
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I aleady posted this but no one seemed to see it:
Behind the mask
Mar 18th 2004
From The Economist print edition
No, we saw that so-called peice of economic writing, but the economist has always been one for give'n out pisspoor advice, they've been sprouting that crap since the 90s and they're still getting it wrong, too bad those Dorks couldn't see Worldcom, Enron and the costs of Iraq coming...
...fact is the Chinese Economy has a lot of problems, its a massive workforce, coming from poverty, still crime, jobless....a population of 1.3 billion and a huge workforce
...but over all the Chinese economy is doing fine, industrial gorwth, the techonlogy up, manufacturing sector doing fine, and the GDP increases each year
Those economic dorks should put efforts into their own Economy and stop crying about China, they look like a bunch of sore losers :sleep:
'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )
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Crap? On the contrary, their analysis is perfectly reasonable. Infact, the basic concept that economic change this rapid cannot go smoothly is obviously more likly then it going without a hitch.
The crimes of Worldcom, Enron, and the depression induced/worsend by 9-11 are not things that The Economist would "see coming" nor is it under the pervue of the science of economics to do so.
The US economy is doing pretty well overall compared to the rest of the world.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]
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China is going through a major economic revolution right now, which is similar in many ways to the Industrial Revolution that occurred in Britain around 1800. However, the Chinese economic revolution is in many ways even more dramatic because the Industrial Revolution and the Information Revolution are happening simultaneously. This causes a lot of upheaval and many people will not be able to successfully adapt to the change, but China will end up with the largest economy in the world.
The US economy is doing pretty well overall compared to the rest of the world.
The US is maintaining a high GDP/capita and it is outperforming Europe and Japan, but the US share of the total world economy is steadily dropping due to the rapid growth in developing countries. In 1950, the US had around 30% of the world's GDP (in PPP), but now has only about 20% and this fraction is expected to shrink further.
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China can learn from the work completed by the Russians and Americans for their economy and also space program. The chinese have an impressive program to be a major power in space like US, Russia, and EU.
It is possible to achieve this within 20 years because they have no hassles of the past developments to complicate things. When you design a launch facility with the expandability the chinese have, the large popluation they can use in this venture, the needs of their country for resources and power generation, all like US then you can understand why they want to get to the moon at or before the other major powers to have their country survive and prosper.
The issues are more the political structure that the people are managed by and the military structure within the government of china can change the issues for space exploration, colonization and permanent movement into space for humanity.
So, Many people are worried and concerned of chinese motives and also you need to add that india as well they are looking to increase their space program.
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Martin I agree, China when it comes to space gets the advantage of the experience of both the American, European and Russian programmes. It also can simply buy or use less reputable means to gain access to all the advanced technologies that have been developed to pioneer space. Chinese using Ion engines is on the cards not to mention they have plans to use telerobotic robots to give themselves an edge as well when they get to the stage where construction is needed. All we really know of the Chinese space program is its "stated" aims and that each advance is giving the scientific and technical sections of the Chinese population a real boost not to mention its morale boost to the general public.
India though is a lot more of an open state when it comes to space. It actually does have a lot of space experience with so many of its trained people having worked for NASA. India is also open to working with other states where as China which had its partnership agreement with NASA to get to the ISS summarily rejected
Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.
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China is going to have a big problem paying for much of anything when the their capitalist economic sector "self corrects", much less a space program. Compound that with when the Commies finally get the boot and the army loses funding.
Eventually their economy is going to ramp up to a point that only India can compete with. In the short term they are useful competition, but they have a long way to before they can expect the long term sable growth needed to support a space program.
"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane
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Commodore,
The reason it costs alot in America, and Europe Space Programs is the cost of labor in Western Terms. China could purchase the construction , manufacturing and other non- critical labor at a lower cost then we have, at present, over the next few years the wages costs will rise , but that is after the development of ground facilities, living areas for staff, training facilities to expand the crew facilities and more. The Chinese Universities could be used to develop the telerobotic systems and help deploy these assets before the Americans and European keeping the development costs for the space station and other space based assets down .
I wouldn't put it past, the chinese to commence the development of a chinese owned and managed space station in 2008 to usher in a new vision for china and the global extension of the chinese national identity.
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Commodore,
The reason it costs alot in America, and Europe Space Programs is the cost of labor in Western Terms. China could purchase the construction , manufacturing and other non- critical labor at a lower cost then we have, at present, over the next few years the wages costs will rise , but that is after the development of ground facilities, living areas for staff, training facilities to expand the crew facilities and more. The Chinese Universities could be used to develop the telerobotic systems and help deploy these assets before the Americans and European keeping the development costs for the space station and other space based assets down .
I wouldn't put it past, the chinese to commence the development of a chinese owned and managed space station in 2008 to usher in a new vision for china and the global extension of the chinese national identity.
Yeah but the only thing that keeps those costs down is the will of the Politburo. That works great for those involved in the program, their wish to go to space is just as strong as ours, but theres countless other areas in the Chinese economy were this won't stay intact forever.
"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane
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If the cost of labor goes up, the government's revenue will go up proportionately. This should actually make it easier for the government to afford a space program, rather than making it more difficult.
China’s current PPP GDP is much larger than the GDP of the USSR or US during the space age, so they should not have any problem funding a modest space program.
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"The US is maintaining a high GDP/capita and it is outperforming Europe and Japan, but the US share of the total world economy is steadily dropping due to the rapid growth in developing countries. In 1950, the US had around 30% of the world's GDP (in PPP), but now has only about 20% and this fraction is expected to shrink further."
Yes and no.
Yes, the USAs share in PPP has shrunk since 1950(from about 35% to 25%), but has risen since 1980-1990. Remember, in 1950 the USA was basically an economic Giant surrounded by a world in the ruins of WWII. The large factor of the shrinking in the 1950-1980 period was the recovery of Europe and Japan. Th
Now the USA is growing at about the world average, which is slightly higher than normal because asia is being propped up by a China bubble. The developing world is growing faster, but is being equalled out by the crappy performance of Europe/Japan, which make up a very large share of the world economy.
PPP has it problems as a measurement tool, it *massively* overstates te value of 3rd- world agrarian countries.
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China is going to have a big problem paying for much of anything when the their capitalist economic sector "self corrects", much less a space program. Compound that with when the Commies finally get the boot and the army loses funding.
Eventually their economy is going to ramp up to a point that only India can compete with. In the short term they are useful competition, but they have a long way to before they can expect the long term sable growth needed to support a space program.
The "commies" are already being given the boot under the radar.
Marx & Mao are merely a veneer on a proud civilization that is several thousand years old.
As a wealthy Chinese businessman once told me:
Jesus wasn't white & the Italians didn't invent pasta
He said it with a smirk. :;):
Give someone a sufficient [b][i]why[/i][/b] and they can endure just about any [b][i]how[/i][/b]
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For those who are interested it seems all people seem to think the world economy is getting worse.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4203867.stm]BBC Survey
So heres looking up everyone is feeling down. :laugh:
Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.
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The US consumer sentiment report today was higher, and higher than forecast as well...
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