Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

Palomar · 2005-01-19 06:16:00

Mimas
http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … ...562.jpg
http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … ...551.jpg
Seriously, how priviliged are we to be living at this time when we can just click a mouse button and see pictures like this, either hot off the press or after a couple of hours/days delay?
And people moan about being able to explore the solar system from their armchair?
Unbelievable...
And we have YEARS more Cassini images to look forward to...

*It really is amazing that such a small moon could remain intact after such a walloping impact. That crater -- Herschel -- is 80 miles wide, which is approximately 1/3 Mimas' diameter! It's 6 miles deep and that central mountain is nearly as high as Mt. Everest. Its peak rises 4 miles above the crater's floor. :-\ Amazing.

And those 2 deep craters above it -- can almost "see" in the mind's eye the initial impact stuff violently skipping up and over, punching in those craters, before passing beyond Mimas.

By the way, ESA has announced a major news release on January 21. :up:

--Cindy

GraemeSkinner · 2005-01-19 06:28:16

By the way, ESA has announced a major news release on January 21. :up:

I'm hoping I can catch that one live, should be off that morning The website does not go into too much detail about the news release, but the panel is made up from a lot of atmospheric specialists and only one(?) surface guy. Perhaps they've got something from the descent phase thats worthy of a news release on its own, before they get down to the surface data - or they only need the one guy to say "it's life Jim but not as we know it" :;):

:blues: :band:

Graeme

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-01-19 06:53:23

By the way, ESA has announced a major news release on January 21. :up:
I'm hoping I can catch that one live, should be off that morning The website does not go into too much detail about the news release, but the panel is made up from a lot of atmospheric specialists and only one(?) surface guy. Perhaps they've got something from the descent phase thats worthy of a news release on its own, before they get down to the surface data - or they only need the one guy to say "it's life Jim but not as we know it" :;):
:blues: :band:
Graeme

the news release on the 21st should be good

the Cassini-Huygens lander has been getting image of the day on a number of sites, like space dot com and the Apod sites

http://www.phy.ncku.edu.tw/~astrolab/mi … ...ens.jpg
http://www.space.com/imageoftheday/imag … 50119.html

http://www.phy.ncku.edu.tw/~astrolab/mi … 50115.html

http://www.phy.ncku.edu.tw/~astrolab/mi … 50119.html

Nasa has the Descent on their website

http://www1.nasa.gov/mission_pages/cass … 07234.html

Palomar · 2005-01-19 08:44:53

*Hi all. I'm on http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … .html]page 24 of the raw images.

So far (besides the descent images), it seems (in this portion of Titan anyway) the land either looks riddled with "tributaries" -- what I call "crinkled" -- or has that indistinct dark/brighter patterning. http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … 5a.jpg]2nd and 3rd frames of this triplet and http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … a.jpg]this one as well.

Odd that some features seem blurry and indistinct, yet others are rather crisp in appearance. But not due to the camera, just the lay of the land itself. :hm:

--Cindy

P.S.: The bottom frame of http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … a.jpg]this triplet also intriguing; what looks like a crabbed area of brighter whatever (LOL) and just beneath it a large swath of darker whatever. Middle frame is full of interesting contrasts too.

::EDIT:: http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … .html]Page 26 shows some of the most varied surface features yet, IMO -- intriguing collage. :up:

REB · 2005-01-19 10:03:53

http://www.planetary.org/saturn/atmos_compare.html]This page compares Titan with Venus Earth and Mars. Very interesting.

It has recent data. Enjoy!

REB · 2005-01-19 10:17:06

http://www.planetary.org/saturn/moons.html]Another page on that site.

This one shows Saturn’s moons to scale. What I find interesting it the co-orbital moons like Epimetheus and Janus, and moons like Tethys, Telesto, Calypso, Dione and Helene that share the same orbits. Tethys has Telesto and Calypso at its L-points and Dione has Helene at one of its L-points.

I find Lagrange point interesting. I wonder planets could be built or moved to the Earth’s Lagrange points and remain in stable orbits around the Sun. That is a topic for another thread.

Palomar · 2005-01-19 10:30:14

http://www.planetary.org/saturn/atmos_compare.html]This page compares Titan with Venus Earth and Mars. Very interesting.
It has recent data. Enjoy!

*Hi REB. Great article. Found this especially interesting:

Titan's air is unique for the presence of hydrocarbons: methane, ethane, propane, acetylene, and ethylene. A sample of Titan's sky would explode with a bit of a spark under Earth's sky.

-*-

REB: This one shows Saturn’s moons to scale.

:up: (You must have read my mind, because last night I was thinking of the Saturnian moons and their relative sizes -- and hoping to find a chart like this).

Thanks for those links.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2005-01-19 12:08:20

Interesting comparison of size of titan and or own moon is little more than a 1000Km and that other than the absence of Oxygen Titans atmosphere is very much earth like.

Palomar · 2005-01-19 13:40:10

*The top row of images in http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … a.html]the triplets on this page show the best indications yet, IMO, of what they're speculating is "ground fog." This is the first time it's looked very much that way to me, anyhow. ::shrug:: I think -because- they are lined up, the indication is visually reinforced. Also good "approach" to "shoreline" in those pics; looks somewhat Earth-like.

--Cindy

Ian Flint · 2005-01-19 13:47:44

http://www.spacedaily.com/images/saturn … jpg]mosaic

This is wierd. How do you explain how the 'river system' in the center of the image seems to start from the dark area as a 'delta', loop into the light area, and then re-enter the dark area as a large 'river'?

C M Edwards · 2005-01-19 14:11:38

http://www.spacedaily.com/images/saturn … jpg]mosaic
This is wierd. How do you explain how the 'river system' in the center of the image seems to start from the dark area as a 'delta', loop into the light area, and then re-enter the dark area as a large 'river'?

That pattern is unusual for a river tributary but not for a river delta. In the river delta scenario, all flow is toward the ocean whether there is a split in the river or not.

Still, you bring up an important question: If this is a delta, where's the rest of the river?

The river system is likely much larger than the area imaged. Note that the resolution of the area around the edges of the imaged area fades away to almost nothing. That poorly resolved area is probably where the river flows in, but our view of that area is lost in the haze. Huygens never saw the river, just its mouth.

Palomar · 2005-01-19 14:39:20

*Hi Ian and CM: Interesting speculation and thoughts. Wish I could offer a few theories myself. :-\

http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … 34a.html]I love those rocks. But supposedly they're actually pebble-sized. I like to imagine they're large enough to curl up and daydream an afternoon away on, while looking out towards the horizon. :;): (Yes, I do know it's horrendously cold there and then the atmosphere...yipes...but imagination can take you there)

I've not yet seen any references to direction, anywhere. My guess is we're looking east while looking over those rocks/pebbles. Probably totally wrong on that count, though. But "east" also comes to mind when looking at the "shoreline" -- its "beach" faces east. ?

Titan brings out the painter in me, an artistic mood. Maybe some archetypal associations with those darker/lighter patterns in the pics.

Enough of the subjective digression. Back to the science of it...

--Cindy

Ian Flint · 2005-01-19 19:26:08

Here's a little science for your daydream.

You're tossing pebbles much like those found in the Huygen images so long ago...

Your oxygen tank is naturally cryogenic in the -180 C temperature (the refrigerator only has to drop it another 3 degrees), so you have plenty to breath all day long. As you walk along the ancient, muddy shoreline, a friend flies through the orange haze on a pair of homemade wings not much longer than the arms that power them. You smile and wave remembering the feeling of flying like a bird in the thick atmosphere and low gravity of this forever sunset world...

You shiver as night decends and reach for your suit thermostat. As you turn it up a notch, you hear your oxygen supply ignite with the methane in the air. Flinching involuntarily at the sound, you remember the fire of '27 that destroyed half of Outpost B, feeding off the very oxygen that filled its chambers...

RobS · 2005-01-19 22:47:44

Several people have commented on a "delta." No, I think it's just a hilly area close to the shoreline with the river systems flowing away from the shoreline, collecting together to form a river, then the river flows into the liquid body elsewhere. If we are looking at a fragment of an ancient crater rim, for example, with the "lake" inside, we'd expect a centrifugal drainage system (as it's called when the rivers all flow outward). Such systems also occur naturally on Earth; most of the southern tip of Lake Michigan essentially protrudes into the Mississippi River drainage system, with only a few small streams flowing into the lake, and rivers even a dozen miles from Lake Michigan flowing southward.

GraemeSkinner · 2005-01-19 22:59:39

http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … 34a.html]I love those rocks. But supposedly they're actually pebble-sized. I like to imagine they're large enough to curl up and daydream an afternoon away on, while looking out towards the horizon. :;): (Yes, I do know it's horrendously cold there and then the atmosphere...yipes...but imagination can take you there)

Its strange (at least to me) that the pebble-sized-shaped rocks stop in the foreground and in the background the rocks look more rugged. I won't pass any other comment on that until I see the images cleaned up a bit. Perhaps it'll be something thats covered in the news release.

Graeme

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-01-20 06:00:27

new info on the 21st should be good, giving more details on the Cassini-Huygens Lander. So check out the http://television.esa.int
& NASA-TV For details, see: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/] … ia/nasatv/

Cassini's closest look yet at bright, icy Enceladus (499 kilometers, 310 miles across) was captured in this view, centered on the moon's trailing hemisphere. It shows some of the linear features in the terrain of the Diyar Planitia region.
http://ciclops.lpl.arizona.edu/media/dr … 1292_1.jpg

REB · 2005-01-20 08:02:13

I wonder if there are localized lake effect rains in the area?

Palomar · 2005-01-20 09:27:41

*Ian: Very nice (you have a gift for writing)...until you made it scary! :-\

Nice pic of Enceladus, YL Rocket. Very smooth in appearance, at least in that photo (especially considering how heavily cratered some of the other moons are).

REB: I've been wondering about tornadic activity -- nothing major necessarily, but the winds can be rather gusty on Titan apparently.

Youve]http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=1322]You've got rings around the pole! Not really of course. The shadows of the Rings are always intriguing. We're seeing effects here which only Cassini could provide.

Odd image. Taken December 14, 2004. Cassini 446,100 miles from Saturn -- that's very close; perhaps closest yet?

Atmospheric features in Saturn's north polar region are revealed in spectacular detail in this Cassini image, taken in the near infrared spectral region, where methane gas is not very absorbing. The dark shadows of Saturn's rings drape across the planet, creating the illusion of atmospheric bands. Dots of bright clouds give the appearance that this is an active place.

Nice that Cassini is buzzing Saturn's northern regions. Really speckled with clouds, hmmmmm.

--Cindy

GraemeSkinner · 2005-01-21 01:14:34

Has anyone tried using something like Registax on the images from Huygens yet? I don't want to mess around with a couple of hundred images if the results are not much different (I did try half a dozen images with a slight image quality improvement) the problem being of course that I've not much experience with Registax to start with :;):

Graeme

Shaun Barrett · 2005-01-21 02:09:54

No Graeme, I haven't tried it.
But then, I'm 'digitally deficient'. :;):

Some people maintain that I'm deficient on many different levels, which I strenuously deny.

GraemeSkinner · 2005-01-21 02:16:22

No Graeme, I haven't tried it.
But then, I'm 'digitally deficient'. :;):
Some people maintain that I'm deficient on many different levels, which I strenuously deny.

Thanks Shaun, I needed a laugh this morning, I did have a joke about being able to maintain things, but I'll leave it at that

I know that astrophotographers use Registax alot to improve the quality of deep sky/planentary photographs from telescope images, just not sure if it would help much here - perhaps I'm just going to have to do it to find out.

Graeme

GraemeSkinner · 2005-01-21 04:47:20

Watched the press conference......

Liquid methane flowing on the surface, precipitation, blocks of ice. What was interesting is that they compare the processes going on on Titan to the processes on Earth with just different constituents of course.

Dr Tomasko said

The liquid was within a few centimetres of the surface. Our feeling is that in the place we landed it must have rained not that long ago

They also mention the fact that when the probe touched down the heat it was emitting caused a small emission of gas from the surface (touching the liquid methane).

The comment that the people behind the Mars rovers would like to send a rover to Titan was interesting!

I'd like a look a the spectograph they showed on screen (now off to look for it).

Graeme

GraemeSkinner · 2005-01-21 04:51:58

image from esa website

A single Huygens DISR image that shows two new features on the surface of Titan. A bright linear feature suggests an area where water ice may have been extruded onto the surface. Also visible are short, stubby dark channels that may have been formed by 'springs' of liquid methane rather than methane 'rain'.
Credits: ESA/NASA/JPL/University of Arizona

Graeme

Palomar · 2005-01-21 05:31:29

http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/cas … g]Possible "islands" on a dark plain

*Nice image of the "methane springs" speculation. :up:

precipitation...They also mention the fact that when the probe touched down the heat it was emitting caused a small emission of gas from the surface (touching the liquid methane).

Like most folks here, I'd wondered how the heat from Huygens might impact (even if minorly) its new surroundings. Precipitation...hmmmmm, I wonder if steady rain-like pattern or drizzle or mists...probably a combination? If there is a similarity to Earth's processes...

The comment that the people behind the Mars rovers would like to send a rover to Titan was interesting!

But one of our New Mars members suggested it first! Yeah, that'd be great.

--Cindy

GraemeSkinner · 2005-01-21 05:42:05

One thing thats worth pointing out is the work that has gone on since the data came back to Earth. The number of gripe threads I've seen about the pictures on various sites around the net (and New Mars) when you watch the press conference and see the experiments they've been conducting since the data came in - it's only a week after all - is really quite astounding. Just think about it, you've spent years and years developing and building a probe, you see it successfully complete its mission - I'd still be drunk from partying, but no, they try and recreate the effects they've seen so far in their lab to match up what they know with what data they have - some people have dedication to a cause thats all I can say, and hats off to them for doing it.

Graeme

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Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

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