Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

Palomar · 2005-01-16 18:20:27

Shaun:
It certainly is fascinating to speculate that perhaps some kind of localised cryo-volcanic event resulted in an outpouring of gas from the surface. It's possible to imagine such a quantity of relatively warm gas, though still cold by Earthly standards, belched out from Titan's equivalent of a terrestrial volcano and rising as an enormous bubble in the freezing Titanian air.

*Yes, that's essentially what I had in mind. :up:

Gathering together all our data about Titan, even this archival stuff, is what it's all about as we struggle to understand this amazing moon. There could be all sorts of vital clues hidden in the old Voyager files.

*That has a nice ring (pardon the pun) to it! There are two other Voyager-related web pages (one is a study dated 1995) I've begun reading, to refresh my memory. They deal with Titan's atmosphere, and one specifically focuses on Titanian weather. But to post them now would be premature, IMO -- especially since we have no idea what's coming next from ESA.

YL Rocket: Not to take anything away from the great efforts in getting great results from NASAs / ESAs Cassini-Huygens Lander but the Cassini Mothership is still doing great, and getting those Saturn photos out.
Check the rings

*Cassini has certainly not been forgotten. Oh those bewitching shimmering visions of loveliness. :up: The last image release from Cassini I've been able to find is 1 photo similar to this, on the day of Huygens' descent, and prior to that little Hyperion (posted in the 2nd thread). Am hoping we'll soon get more images and info about Saturn's northern hemisphere, and particularly more indepth knowledge as to the effects of the rings' shadows on the weather.

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2005-01-16 18:55:49

Cindy:-

Am hoping we'll soon get more images and info about Saturn's northern hemisphere, and particularly more indepth knowledge as to the effects of the rings' shadows on the weather.

This puts me in mind of a discussion we had long ago about the localised effects on terrestrial weather during an eclipse. Apparently it can become quite windy as the Moon's shadow causes sudden small drops in the temperature on a regional scale.
I suppose Saturn's rings would cause an analogous temperature differential and maybe explain some of those circular storms and high winds (?).

Palomar · 2005-01-16 22:17:48

Cindy:-
Am hoping we'll soon get more images and info about Saturn's northern hemisphere, and particularly more indepth knowledge as to the effects of the rings' shadows on the weather.
This puts me in mind of a discussion we had long ago about the localised effects on terrestrial weather during an eclipse. Apparently it can become quite windy as the Moon's shadow causes sudden small drops in the temperature on a regional scale.
I suppose Saturn's rings would cause an analogous temperature differential and maybe explain some of those circular storms and high winds (?).

*Hi Shaun: Yes, I recall that discussion and mentioning that in the mid-1990s I saw the effects of a near-total solar eclipse. Temperature drop, the wind did abruptly pick up very noticeably; and, quite coincidentally, we were near a large lake during the peak of the eclipse -- the waves of the lake became very pronounced, brisk and took on this strange, short-lapping motion.

Here's a short article (June 2003) which http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/spac … speculates about Saturnian weather , including the influence of the rings. Also, the angle at which Saturn is tilted, etc. The equatorial region of Saturn seems to be an especial focus of study and consideration.

I'll see if I can't rustle up something more detailed (yet concise) over the next day or two.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-01-17 10:35:05

Gathering together all our data about Titan, even this archival stuff, is what it's all about as we struggle to understand this amazing moon. There could be all sorts of vital clues hidden in the old Voyager files.

http://shadow.eas.gatech.edu/~kdarmenov … ]Formation regions for Titan's haze

*An interesting diagram, which is a part of http://shadow.eas.gatech.edu/~kdarmenov … .html]this article, which also includes the Chassefiere and Cabane 1995 model of Titan's haze formation -and- a 1996 study of the effects of Titanian wind on the haze. I've almost finished reading the web page (began reading it this a.m.). The "tail" is especially interesting; I wonder about its interplay (if any) within the Saturnian system overall.

Hopefully will be of service for comparison as more data about Titan rolls in.

-*-

Rheas]http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=1312]Rhea's many craters

*Taken by Cassini on Dec. 12, 2004. Is the leading hemisphere.

--Cindy

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-01-17 11:33:52

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned somewhere else but has everyone heard the sounds recorded by the Huygens microphone?
Most of them are pretty weird - http://planetary.org/sounds/huygens_sounds.html]check it out.

Indeed, there are great sounds from Titan and this should give us very good info

http://spacenews.dancebeat.info/images/ … ...aic.jpg

http://img119.exs.cx/img119/9788/image1 … ge12fy.jpg

http://vpl.ipac.caltech.edu/spectra/c2h … icrons.htm

http://mer.rlproject.com/index.php?act= … ...id=4401

Cassini-Huygens Lander has done very well, good on NASA and the ESA for this. When the scientific papers come out it should be a good read, people on the web who have been playing with images have done a nice job in some pictures

SpaceNut · 2005-01-17 12:55:21

A great chart of the lander sequence to land on Titan.

SpaceNut · 2005-01-17 13:21:34

Found another site for images.

and here is a few from the ESA pages or from this one

Palomar · 2005-01-17 13:46:21

http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titanraw/index.htm] and here is a few from the ESA pageshttp://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~kholso/triplets1.htm] or from this one

*Yep, just found this as well and checked your links to avoid re-posting information. 37 pages of raw images. Great! :up:

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=15120]This mosaic is available for viewing in a link provided previously, but it also includes descent information which I don't remember reading yet (but there's been so much going on, I may have forgotten).

At that stage of its descent, Huygens was dropping almost vertically with a speed of about 5 metres per second. It was drifting horizontally with a speed of about 1 metre per second.

*Now that sounds smoooooth. :laugh:

--Cindy

::EDIT:: I wonder about http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … .jpg]these sorts of raw images. ??? From page 11 of the raw images gallery.

::EDIT 2:: Okay, I'm thinking http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … jpg]images like the one in the middle and http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … 2a.jpg]the bottom frame in this can't be "ground fog." :-\ Seems there's this overall dark-against-bright and vice versa random patterning. :hm: (From page 14)

http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … .html]Page 16 most interesting yet -- more surface features

Palomar · 2005-01-17 14:18:48

*I'm not going to do an "edit 3" :laugh:

Pages http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … 8a.html]18 and http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … 9a.html]19 show more of the "shoreline."

Sharper surface features too. :up:

--Cindy

Ian Flint · 2005-01-17 20:11:55

I think I see craters in the "ocean" of those pictures, cindy. I wish they were only methane droplets on the camera, but they look like craters to me.

GraemeSkinner · 2005-01-18 04:56:03

I think I see craters in the "ocean" of those pictures, cindy. I wish they were only methane droplets on the camera, but they look like craters to me.

I've seen elsewhere on the net, that the craters are thought to be image artifacts either in transmission or from the lens, and not actual craters. I think it would be worth waiting to see what the official line is going to be on those though.

Graeme

chat · 2005-01-18 06:36:34

GraemeSkinner,

If the liquid is shallow an image taken from above would still show craters in the liquid area.
Yet another solution to the craters in the sea.

Palomar · 2005-01-18 07:09:48

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=15132]Race of the Moons

*Four options to watch 6 of Saturn's moons zipping 'round and/or within the Rings.

By the way, does anyone know how to *prevent* downloaded images from shrinking once they're fully downloaded? I got the GIF 0.8 MB movie to download...and then it shrank! Can't hardly see the moons now. REB once told us how to prevent the image from shrinking months ago in a different thread, but I forgot. :-\ Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2005-01-18 07:33:03

REB once told us how to prevent the image from shrinking months ago in a different thread, but I forgot. :-\ Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.

If you're using Explorer, it's under Tools>Internet Options, click the Advanced tab, and about 2/3 of the way down the list there's a checked box that says "Enable Automatic Image Resizing". Click it to remove the check, hit OK and you should be set.

Palomar · 2005-01-18 08:46:06

REB once told us how to prevent the image from shrinking months ago in a different thread, but I forgot. :-\ Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.
If you're using Explorer, it's under Tools>Internet Options, click the Advanced tab, and about 2/3 of the way down the list there's a checked box that says "Enable Automatic Image Resizing". Click it to remove the check, hit OK and you should be set.

*Yep, worked! Thanks Cobra. I was very chagrined upon first opening the movie and beginning to see some motion, only to have it shrink to barely seeable status!

Now it's fine and dandy. Thanks again.

--Cindy

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-01-18 09:10:42

LO
http://www.futura-sciences.com/communiq … /525]Color panoramic of Huygens landing landscape

NASA has a nice pic on the JPL site, already mentioned on the link to space ref dot com, ESA's Huygens probe took it from an altitude varying from 13 kilometers to 8 km

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … ...500.jpg

We should also get more Cassini pics of Titan when the probe gets closer in about 25 days

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Cassini-Huy … QUD_0.html

Palomar · 2005-01-18 09:49:37

*Hi Ian -- craters...could be. Was thinking along the lines of image artifact too (Graeme).

[[:edit: Is it likely Titan has many craters? Considering that really thick and tall atmosphere, wouldn't most asteroids/space debris simply burn up long before it could reach the ground?]]

I wonder if http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … a.jpg]this is a mounded-up region (with lighter areas being ridges or peak-like formations), or if is simply more dark/bright patterning. I think "mountains" when I see the photo, though if anything are probably just hills?

I have a tendency to THINK BIG! when it comes to this stuff, LOL. Guess I'm an American or something... (Everything will work out in the end, everything is spacious or tall, it'll last happily forever -- or for a long time, etc., etc., LOL).

--Cindy

P.S.: So far my overall impression of what we're seeing of Titan is that it's crinkly. Yours?

Palomar · 2005-01-18 11:07:10

*On page 21 of the raw images there are http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … .jpg]three frames (bottom-most; I'm only posting 1 of them) which looks like a naturally enclosed area. Wonder if it's a shallow/depression or simply the "run" of a lighter-colored area.

Heres]http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titanraw/file21a.html]Here's page 21 in its entirety. Check out the bottom frames of the 7th, 8th and 9th triplets. Can see a star-type pattern; it's circular and trifid. Maybe "splayed" pattern would be a better word. Is more distinct in the grouping than when enlarged. The "petal" of each trifid segment seems as long as the others. I wonder if -that- may have been the result of an impact of some sort (atmospheric depth and thickness not withstanding).

This is fun. :up: We certainly are privileged to be the first humans to ever have seen beneath Titan's shroud -- and a mere 25 years after Voyager! :band:

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2005-01-18 11:24:39

Could the white colored areas be Ice capped elevational changes and the darker areas liquid methane?

Grypd · 2005-01-18 12:01:36

Here on the space Daily site is a mosaic of the landing area

http://www.spacedaily.com/images/saturn … Spacedaily mosaic

Interesting is that it actually looks almost earthlike.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-01-18 12:52:34

some info from the Universetoday site

Huygens Landed in Mud

(Jan 18, 2005) Scientists at the European Space Agency now believe that Huygens landed with a splat when it reached the surface of Titan last Friday. They reached this conclusion because the probe's downward-facing High Resolution Thermal Imager camera lens has accumulated material since Huygens landed. This means that the probe has probably been settling down into the muck. Another possiblity, though, is that it steamed hydrocarbons off the surface which are collecting on the lens.
....
....Although Huygens landed on Titan's surface on 14 January, activity at ESA's European Space Operations Centre (ESOC) in Darmstadt, Germany, continues at a furious pace. Scientists are still working to refine the exact location of the probe's landing site, seen above.
While Huygens rests frozen at -180 degrees Celsius on Titan's landscape, a symbolic finale to the engineering and flight phase of this historic mission, scientists have taken little time off to eat or sleep.
They have been processing, examining and analysing data, and sometimes even dreaming about it when they sleep. There's enough data to keep Huygens scientists busy for months and even years to come

In the lower atmosphere, the probe decelerated to approximately 5.4 metres per second, and drifted sideways at about 1.5 metres per second, a leisurely walking pace.
"The ride was bumpier than we thought it would be," said Martin Tomasko, Principal Investigator for the Descent Imager/Spectral Radiometer (DISR), the instrument that provided Huygens' stunning images among other data.
The probe rocked more than expected in the upper atmosphere. During its descent through high-altitude haze, it tilted at least 10 to 20 degrees. Below the haze layer, the probe was more stable, tilting less than 3 degrees.
Tomasko and others are still investigating the reason for the bumpy ride and are focusing on a suspected change in wind profile at about 25 kilometres altitude.
The bumpy ride was not the only surprise during the descent....
.....Landing with a splat
Scientists had theorised that the probe would drop out of the haze at between 70 and 50 kilometres. In fact, Huygens began to emerge from the haze only at 30 kilometres above the surface.
When the probe landed, it was not with a thud, or a splash, but a 'splat'. It landed in Titanian 'mud'.
"I think the biggest surprise is that we survived landing and that we lasted so long," said DISR team member Charles See. "There wasn't even a glitch at impact.

http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish … ...1812005

Palomar · 2005-01-18 14:40:36

SpaceNut: Could the white colored areas be Ice capped elevational changes and the darker areas liquid methane?

*Your guess is as good as mine. :;): For some reason (as if my speculation on this matters, because it doesn't...LOL) I just don't envision Titan as having vast quantities or stretches of liquid methane on it. But hopefully we'll know soon, one way or the other.
http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/titan … .jpg]Check out the 2nd and 3rd images in this triplet. Is it just me, or does that look like a steep drop-off? Especially the middle one? ::shrugs:: But we have no scale indicators, etc... -sigh-

YL Rocket: Huygens Landed in Mud

*Cool -- no glitch whatsoever on impact. A previous article posted here said Huygens sank 6 inches into the goo.

Also, I saw a reference to a video clip recently created/pieced together of Huygens' descent. Has it been released yet? Or when will it be? I haven't seen it anywhere.

--Cindy

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-01-18 14:51:35

Also, I saw a reference to a video clip recently created/pieced together of Huygens' descent. Has it been released yet? Or when will it be? I haven't seen it anywhere.
--Cindy

small video Animation showing descent of Cassini-Huygens craft , the animated flash video is about half way down this page

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM5YW71Y3E_in … dex_0.html

the craft seems to sway and rock quiet a bit during descent

Palomar · 2005-01-18 15:17:24

Also, I saw a reference to a video clip recently created/pieced together of Huygens' descent. Has it been released yet? Or when will it be? I haven't seen it anywhere.
--Cindy
small video Animation showing descent of Cassini-Huygens craft , the animated flash video is about half way down this page
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM5YW71Y3E_in … dex_0.html

the craft seems to sway and rock quiet a bit during descent

*WEeeeeeeEeee! Wow, that's quite a ride. Thanks YL Rocket, for posting the link.

It's almost vertigo-inducing...(probably because there's no even -halfway- familiar point of reference). :laugh:

--Cindy

Stu · 2005-01-18 18:12:56

If anyone needs further proof of just how spoiled we are right now, take a look at these...

Enceladus 1

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … ...623.jpg

Enceladus 2

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … ...571.jpg

Mimas

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … ...562.jpg

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i … ...551.jpg

See? It really IS the Death Star!!!

Seriously, how priviliged are we to be living at this time when we can just click a mouse button and see pictures like this, either hot off the press or after a couple of hours/days delay?

And people moan about being able to explore the solar system from their armchair?

Unbelievable...

And we have YEARS more Cassini images to look forward to...

New Mars Forums

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#26 2005-01-16 18:20:27

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

#27 2005-01-16 18:55:49

Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

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