Wind mill generator on Titan?

ERRORIST · 2005-01-15 20:32:37

I found this to be interesing from a Yahoo article.

"A boom mike extended from the 705-pound Huygens probe has captured a loud, rushing sound. Mission scientists did not immediately say what it might mean, but instruments on the probe have detected winds of about 15 mph."

Could a windmill and generator power the batteries for rover on Titan? Perhaps, You could let it charge for 18 hours then do six hours of science with such an idea?

GCNRevenger · 2005-01-16 23:00:31

Unless the winds are very constant, this is not a realible enough way to make energy. You see, on Titan you will need LOTS of energy because it is so cold and the air is thick. It would also not be easy to keep the windmill oriented properly.

On the Moon for instance, keeping warm is not that hard because there is no air to carry your heat away, its like living in a thermos bottle. But on Titan, the air is thick and very cold, and will quickly take all your heat away, requiring you to make more.

The best way is to use RTGs, since these make plenty of heat and will even get a boost for electricity because of the cold, which will increase the efficency of its thermocouples.

Euler · 2005-01-17 01:33:32

Or you could make a rover that is designed to function in the cold and not heat it.

GCNRevenger · 2005-01-17 07:56:28

Not practical. At least some of the electronics will all but certainly not be cryogenic-safe. NASA went to the trouble of adding Plutonium heaters to the electronics bay of the MER. Superconducting systems also probobly can't be kept cold enough.

Then there is the simple question, where else are you going to get your energy? RTGs are perfect for Titan with its high heat-absortion atmosphere.

ERRORIST · 2005-01-17 11:06:16

Well if the wind is constant then you can use that energy to keep it warm.The windmill can be designed to be mechanically turned to the wind at all times like the ones from power companies.

GCNRevenger · 2005-01-18 13:37:49

Nope, such a gimbal/mount system would be awfully heavy to support such a contraption, nor do we know if the wind is constant or not. Even if it were, you would need to invent a heavy folding/flexing turbine, which would not be easy either. A little bit of uneven terrain and your turbine tower might tip the rover right over too like the MERs have had to negotiate.

The nuclear option really is the best one.

C M Edwards · 2005-01-19 14:56:42

Windy little moon. Big ocean. Hmm...

How easy would it be to automate a sailboat?

ERRORIST · 2005-01-19 15:14:00

I would think that the wind on a sail boat would also generate elctricity.

RobS · 2005-01-19 22:58:09

There's also not enough wind on Titan at the surface. There is very little surface heating because the sun is weak and is absorbed high up in the atmosphere (becase of the haze) as well as close to the surface. I think they said Huygens was moving 5 miles per hour horizontally when it landed. That means a 5 mph wind, which is not enough to make very much power.

-- RobS

ERRORIST · 2005-01-20 07:18:10

Nope, they said the wind is blowing 15 MPH.

GCNRevenger · 2005-01-20 08:22:13

Yes the wind was blowing at aproximatly 15mph... At Altitude.

If your turbine is on the GROUND, then there is no wind to speak of.

C M Edwards · 2005-01-20 08:58:27

A balloon or airship might be very promising in that environment. Methane should work as a lift gas on Titan just like it does on Earth, and hydrogen should be available from cracking the Titan atmosphere directly. We could land a probe with an ISRU package on the surface and have it take to the air a few weeks later.

Naturally, wind power or no, we should go back.

SpaceNut · 2005-01-20 10:06:51

You could send a plane for the next probe, just send O2 and scoop the rest you need for fuel from the atmosphere until you run out of O2. View as much as you can while the supply of O2 last. Then when it is all gone Crash and burn would be how it would end.

GCNRevenger · 2005-01-20 11:13:01

You can't carry enough oxygen on the airplane to make it last for very long.

An ISRU plant to make H2 for recon balloons? Not a terrible idea, especially if you wanted to send multiple balloons, and you'd need lots of Hydrogen because of the low temperature of the gas will cause it to contract quite a bit.

The big problem with this idea is how to power the balloons. Putting an RTG on each of them will make them pretty heavy. Solar power is probobly out of the picture, and a wind turbine would be a big risk.

You would also need an orbiter to relay information back to Earth if you intend to let the balloons roam all over the surface instead of anchoring near the lander.

SpaceNut · 2005-01-20 12:02:52

Yes, true but that does not stop us from using the air for free here on Earth at the cost of only having so much fuel on board. Yes, it would have a short life but so would most things that cold...

ERRORIST · 2005-01-20 13:01:12

No,I read an article where the winds were 15 MPH at the surface do to the sound of it passing the microphone.

GCNRevenger · 2005-01-20 13:07:40

Errorist, the microphone was deployed before landing, and the sound was detected high in the atmosphere before landing.

ERRORIST · 2005-01-20 13:53:48

Ok,I'll look for the link.

ERRORIST · 2005-01-20 14:09:03

A quick google revealed this: However, I seem to remember reading it on another link a few days ago!!

"A boom mike extended from Huygens after its landing revealed a loud, rushing sound. Mission scientists did not immediately say what it might mean.

Titan is the first moon other than the Earth's to be explored. Scientists think its atmosphere is similar to that of the early Earth, and that studying it could provide clues to how life began on our planet.

Yet there also was a setback after Huygens' seven-year trip through space: One of the probe's two data streams failed to download, meaning it will be some time before data on wind speed in Titan's atmosphere can be pieced together.

But the sounds suggested blowing, and other instruments detected surface winds of about 25 kilometers per hour (16 miles per hour)."

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/arti … ...id=3947

C M Edwards · 2005-01-20 15:03:13

But the sounds suggested blowing, and other instruments detected surface winds of about 25 kilometers per hour (16 miles per hour)."

Well, surface winds are certainly not upper altitude winds. Given mean winds of even half that amount, an aerostat-suspended or tower-supported windmill is a possibility.

Still... I don't wish to impune the journalistic integrity of the good people at the Turkish Daily News, but do you have another source for this information, Errorist?

ERRORIST · 2005-01-20 15:24:10

The key here is that other instruments support the data.

ERRORIST · 2005-01-20 15:37:21

This article implies surface winds from AP.

The clouds are most likely methane and dark areas on the surface are "a reservoir" of liquid methane, said project scientist Shushiel Atreya.

A boom mike extended from the 705-pound Huygens probe has captured a loud, rushing sound. Mission scientists did not immediately say what it might mean, but instruments on the probe have detected winds of about 15 mph.

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/ … 649121.htm

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-08-22 18:25:54

Strange winds blow on Saturn's moon Titan. New clues could solve this decades-old mystery

https://www.space.com/saturn-moon-titan … -new-clues

from 2022

Webb, Keck Telescopes Team Up to Track Clouds on Saturn’s Moon Titan

https://blogs.nasa.gov/webb/2022/12/01/ … oon-titan/

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#1 2005-01-15 20:32:37

Re: Wind mill generator on Titan?

#2 2005-01-16 23:00:31

Re: Wind mill generator on Titan?

#3 2005-01-17 01:33:32

Re: Wind mill generator on Titan?

#4 2005-01-17 07:56:28

Re: Wind mill generator on Titan?

#5 2005-01-17 11:06:16

Re: Wind mill generator on Titan?

#6 2005-01-18 13:37:49

Re: Wind mill generator on Titan?

#7 2005-01-19 14:56:42

Re: Wind mill generator on Titan?

#8 2005-01-19 15:14:00

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#9 2005-01-19 22:58:09

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#10 2005-01-20 07:18:10

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#11 2005-01-20 08:22:13

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#12 2005-01-20 08:58:27

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#13 2005-01-20 10:06:51

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#14 2005-01-20 11:13:01

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#15 2005-01-20 12:02:52

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#16 2005-01-20 13:01:12

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#17 2005-01-20 13:07:40

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#18 2005-01-20 13:53:48

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#19 2005-01-20 14:09:03

Re: Wind mill generator on Titan?

#20 2005-01-20 15:03:13

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#21 2005-01-20 15:24:10

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#22 2005-01-20 15:37:21

Re: Wind mill generator on Titan?

#23 2023-08-22 18:25:54

Re: Wind mill generator on Titan?

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