Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

Cobra Commander · 2005-01-15 11:19:02

Continued from "Cassini-Huygens *2*"

Palomar · 2005-01-15 11:41:14

*Terrific. Thanks Cobra (like the Roman numerals too).

Forgot to mention in my last post my surprise at how well lit the surface features are. Considering how far Sol is from the Saturnian system and etc., I presume some of the lighting has to do with the reflective (?) or absorptive (?) qualities of the thick haze itself?

--Cindy

djellison · 2005-01-15 12:20:30

Or the sensitivity of the camera?

Doug

Palomar · 2005-01-15 14:37:50

*Hi Doug. Good question. Or is that an answer in the form of a question? :;):

About http://www.spaceflightnow.com/cassini/0 … .html]this lovely image again:

The white streaks seen near this boundary could be ground 'fog' as they were not immediately visible from higher altitudes.

I wonder how firm or how slushy or how fluffy, etc., the ground is "in general." Wind speed during descent is estimated to have been 6 to 7 kph.

Hopefully more images will be released soon.

--Cindy

::EDIT:: Some new comments by Lockheed Martin at spaceflightnow.com's Mission Status Center:

The radiation balance of the atmosphere was measured by monitoring the upward and downward flow of radiation. A calculation of the size, number and density of suspended particles in the atmosphere was made possible by measuring the light intensity around the Sun.

::EDIT2::

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=15096]1st results from Huygens

*Pebble sized? :-\ Mentions possible ground fog again. Surface color darker than expected. Evidence of erosion -- indicates possible fluvial activity. Next is a bit run together, so will simply quote it:

Detailed analysis of methane In stratosphere - uniform mixing 90 minutes into descent and the methane mixing ratio (relative to nitrogen) changes indicating the possible presence of clouds Methane mixing ratio is higher at the surface

Touchdown took place 2 hours 27 minutes 57 seconds after atmosphere interface. Penetrometer measurements suggest a thin crust of over the surface.

Of what? "...a thin crust of over the surface." :-\

Almir · 2005-01-15 15:05:34

Forgot to mention in my last post my surprise at how well lit the surface features are. Considering how far Sol is from the Saturnian system and etc., I presume some of the lighting has to do with the reflective (?) or absorptive (?) qualities of the thick haze itself?
--Cindy

I also surprise.

"How thick is the atmosphere? A person standing on Titan's surface in the daytime would experience a level of daylight equivalent to 1/1000 the daylight on Earth's surface. This comparison not only takes into account the thickness of the atmosphere, but also Titan's greater distance from the Sun. Still, light levels on Titan's surface are 350 times brighter than moonlight on Earth under a full moon." http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/science/tita … sphere.cfm

chat · 2005-01-15 15:39:08

Really looking forward to seeing a picture of Saturn in the sky.
Hope we get to see that as it would be an inspiring picture.

Can't wait for the titan rover/boat that is sure to follow.

DonPanic · 2005-01-15 16:18:42

LO
I remind you that some ESA engineers send to http://www.futura-sciences.com/communiq … page/]this site : Futura Science forum photos of Titan as soon as they are treated.
Even ESA rush mistakes are corrected by Futura staff members before edition
Share the primeur

djellison · 2005-01-15 18:09:52

Really looking forward to seeing a picture of Saturn in the sky.
Hope we get to see that as it would be an inspiring picture.
Can't wait for the titan rover/boat that is sure to follow.

Not going to happen. 1) The geometry is way off for it to be in the field of view at any time 2) The atmosphere and clouds wouldnt be transparent enough to show it

Even if it did - it'd be just a ball in the sky - the rings are edge-on from titan

doug

Palomar · 2005-01-15 18:20:52

*Oh god, I'm heartsick: Remember the glitch which was mentioned at the end of the Cassini-Huygens *2* thread?

A missing computer command - apparently the result of human error - caused the loss of half the pictures taken by Europe's Huygens probe as it descended to the surface of Saturn's moon Titan.

Aaaaargh. I honestly feel like crying.

350 photos did survive, however. That's from spaceflightnow.com.

---

Just now copied this from today's spaceweather.com:

The rounded rocks, scientists suspect, are actually made of water-ice. At -300 degrees F, ice is as hard as rock!

---

Almir: Thanks for the info regarding daylight equivalent and etc. :up: I'd not read that previously anywhere.

Chat: Yes, and NOW! Both -- rover and boat (and manned expedition and orbital surveyor/camera and...) Teehee. Bill Gates can you hear me??

DonPanic: Thanks for the link to Futura Science forum.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-01-15 21:02:50

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s … turn]*More info rolling in. Yahoo! article.

*The haze hangs approximately 12 miles above the surface, which they're describing as spongy with a thin-crusted top. Comparisons to wet sand and clay. Speculation the dark surface areas are "a reservoir" of liquid methane.

I've not yet seen any references to Huygens having detected lightning and/or thunder. Has anyone else?

--Cindy

Stephen · 2005-01-15 21:27:42

The white streaks seen near this boundary could be ground 'fog' as they were not immediately visible from higher altitudes.

Some of those "white streaks", such as the ones over on the upper left of the pic below, look more like surf breaking against a shoreline.

Picture3_XL,0.jpg

That could, however, be merely an illusion. There hasn't been enough resolution in the images released thus far to be able to tell.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-01-16 02:45:21

Forgot to mention in my last post my surprise at how well lit the surface features are. Considering how far Sol is from the Saturnian system and etc., I presume some of the lighting has to do with the reflective (?) or absorptive (?) qualities of the thick haze itself?
--Cindy
I also surprise.
"How thick is the atmosphere? A person standing on Titan's surface in the daytime would experience a level of daylight equivalent to 1/1000 the daylight on Earth's surface. This comparison not only takes into account the thickness of the atmosphere, but also Titan's greater distance from the Sun. Still, light levels on Titan's surface are 350 times brighter than moonlight on Earth under a full moon." http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/science/tita … sphere.cfm

Very, good it has been a wonderful mission well done to the guys at NASA and ESA, the Cassini-Huygens lander was fantastic and it should be great to watch Cassini continue to get info on Saturn and its Moons over the next few years. This mission has gotten good coverage, and the news stations have had good info on it the msnbc people have a good Titan slide show
:up:

http://english.people.com.cn/200501/15/ … 70746.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6823880/?GT … /?GT1=6065
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005- … 462477.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/417 … 177401.stm

I also like some of the pics people on the the net are playing with

http://uplink.space.com/attachments//12 … orized.jpg
http://spacescience.ca/titan/Titan_huyg … ic_big.jpg

Look forward to reading more, and looking at papers on the data from the various instruments...Cassini-Huygens GCMS instrument, the ACP device, the (HASI) sensors for measuring the physical and electrical properties of the atmosphere and microphone, and all other new information.

great job
:band:

Palomar · 2005-01-16 06:26:49

The white streaks seen near this boundary could be ground 'fog' as they were not immediately visible from higher altitudes.
Some of those "white streaks", such as the ones over on the upper left of the pic below, look more like surf breaking against a shoreline.
That could, however, be merely an illusion. There hasn't been enough resolution in the images released thus far to be able to tell.

*Yes, it does give that impression. However, especially as the mounded-up area goes, I was a bit surprised that they're speculating this is may be ground fog; to me it "simply" looks like ground material of a lighter color because of its seemingly -mottled- appearance (which, of course, could be image quality issues). But I'm not a scientist, so....

YL Rocket: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/417 … 177401.stm

*Nice illustrations of Huygens' instrumentation. :up:

YL Rocket: http://uplink.space.com/attachments//12 … orized.jpg

*Interesting. Whomever created that seems to suggest the fluid might have a bluish tinge? I wonder too...but I doubt it.

Cool links, YLR.

--Cindy

P.S.: Only 29 days to the next Cassini flyby of Titan; it will buzz Titan at a distance of only 980 miles (1577 km).

Shaun Barrett · 2005-01-16 07:11:21

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned somewhere else but has everyone heard the sounds recorded by the Huygens microphone?
Most of them are pretty weird - http://planetary.org/sounds/huygens_sounds.html]check it out.

Palomar · 2005-01-16 07:14:56

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned somewhere else but has everyone heard the sounds recorded by the Huygens microphone?
Most of them are pretty weird - http://planetary.org/sounds/huygens_sounds.html]check it out.

*Yep, a couple of links to sounds were posted near the end of Cassini-Huygens *2* by YL Rocket and myself. The radar echo is a blast. Thanks for re-linking; in fact, it seems this site has more options.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2005-01-16 07:21:01

I have enjoyed all the updates from all , but I find it very disappointing to find two other threads grumbbleling about picture quality and lack of color. They should be happy that they are getting anything back at all.

In the Unmanned probes you will find
Disappointment pictures from titan And under the Free Chat Piss Poor Hygens Camrea Shots I am tired of the BS!

Where were all of you grumblers when the ESA needed money for better higher tech instrumentation though the developement years until it was launched 7 years ago.
You have nothing to whine about..
:angry:

Palomar · 2005-01-16 08:02:47

http://www.saturntoday.com/news/viewpr. … 15927]Keck Images of Titan at Huygens Impact :up:

*Remember the news articles posted in our previous C-H threads about ground-based telescopes following the action?

This near-infrared image shows Titan at the moment Huygens reached its target.

No atmospheric disturbances were detected by Keck, though. But yes, the historical implications are paramount.

Talk about dedication! --

"It was worth getting up in the middle of the night for this historic moment", says Fred Chaffee, director of the Keck Observatory, "despite the bad weather on the mountain". Winds were blowing at 40-50 mph, while the mountain top itself was still cloaked with snow and ice from a recent storm.

:band:

You're our kind of people, Mr. Chaffee!

--Cindy

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-01-16 09:07:34

Good on Mr. Chaffee and Keck

I have enjoyed all the updates from all , but I find it very disappointing to find two other threads grumbbleling

Indeed its been a great mission by NASA and well done to the ESA's Cassini-Huygens lander, as for the moaners, grumbling...don't even get me started on Jeff Bell .
The Lander has done great and Cassini will continue to bring us great info on Saturn & its Moons. There is more to come from Titan - they probably haven't fully cleaned up the images for high-res versions yet plus we have a whole heap of data and readings from the science packages, images really look alot like plains and higland combined with lowlands of another colour. Also seem to be some kind of River delats in the pictures. Many temperatures read out, they found that it was quiet dark on the surface of Titan, it was thought Sunlight filtering through the clouds probably casts an orange glow across the landscape like light from full moons
bright enough to read a newspaper, but still about many times dimmer than a sunlit day on Earth. There were Temperature variations 288 degrees below zero Fahrenheit I've read that it recorded 275 degrees below zero and nearly 300 degrees below zero ( say 178 degrees below zero Celsius), winds can reach up to 500km/h, surface temperature is estimated to be -180°C. Data collected from entry covering the full deceleration of the probe and conducting a full analysis of the atmospheric structure. Measurements of pressure and temperature against altitude achieved. Surface temperature estimated at 93.8 K Microphone done great recorded sounds in the Titan atmosphere as the probe descended. GCMS has also great results Detailed analysis of methane In stratosphere - uniform mixing 90 minutes into descent and the methane mixing ratio (relative to nitrogen) changes indicating the possible presence of clouds .

:band:

http://home.neo.rr.com/pzps/hires_mosai … ic_med.jpg
http://spacescience.ca/titan/Titan_huyg … ic_big.jpg
http://www.zsql.com/images/titan.jpg]ht … /titan.jpg
ftp://members.aol.com/dosidicus/Huygens … escent.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/ … nding5.gif

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-01-16 09:10:03

QUOTE: River delats ??

I mean streams of possible ethane-liquids and maybe something like methane river deltas

Palomar · 2005-01-16 12:58:22

YL Rocket: ...they found that it was quiet dark on the surface of Titan, it was thought Sunlight filtering through the clouds probably casts an orange glow across the landscape

*Which raises the question in my mind: Is the soil itself orange in color? From precipitation cycles or other? Maybe further photos will help clarify.

YLR: winds can reach up to 500km/h

*Amazing. :up: Am still hoping for a bit of news regarding thunder, lightning. A meterology buff, I'm especially anticipating learning about Titan's weather cycles.

--Cindy

P.S.: http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=999]New to spaceref.com. Open-source processing of Huygens images. Perhaps YLR has already shared some of these with us (I did check each of your links earlier today, YL Rocket; now I'll check this out. Sorry if there is any redundancy -- it's not intentional).

::EDIT:: A Yahoo! article yields this bit of information:

According to data from Huygens, the 705-pound probe sank about 6 inches into the surface when it hit at about 10 mph.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s … ages]Yahoo! article -- much of it already familiar to us.

One person working on the data is comparing Huygens' surface to "creme brulee" :laugh: I do like the reference to Titan's sky as "a Dreamsicle-orange sky." :up:

-also- Due to a programming error (whether the fault of Cassini or Huygens hasn't yet been determined), an experiment to measure Titan's wind speed failed. But they're confident it will be retrieved via backup systems.

Huygens found one strong hint of a ground source of methane: The concentration of methane in the atmosphere was much higher at the surface than at high altitude.

Palomar · 2005-01-16 15:39:20

*The things that make you go :hm:

Remember this from Voyager I? Dated Nov. 12, 1980

The divisions in the haze occur at altitudes of 200, 375 and 500 kilometers (124, 233 and 310 miles) above the limb of the moon.

I was thinking about this image earlier today (in false color, according to spacelibrary.com); it was formerly an avatar of mine. But that oval-shaped "bubble" in one portion of the haze (colored blue) does seem to be just that -- a bubble or cavity. Could it be a pocket of some sort of gas anomaly? I've not seen an explanation for this anywhere, ever. Hopefully Huygens and/or Cassini (during one of the many upcoming flybys) can provide a clue -- if it's a recurrent/commonplace phenomenon, etc.

In the meantime, does anyone here know?

--Cindy

DonPanic · 2005-01-16 15:53:35

LO
http://www.futura-sciences.com/communiq … /525]Color panoramic of Huygens landing landscape

Shaun Barrett · 2005-01-16 17:09:15

That's a very nice site you've linked for us, DonPanic. :up:
In the mosaic of black and white pictures, which shows the 'river delta' so clearly from a considerable altitude, I can't be sure whether there are some small craters in the broad dark area on the right (?).
If they are craters, then the dark areas can't be liquid, can they? They can't even be tarry ooze either, I suppose.
???

Cindy:-

But that oval-shaped "bubble" in one portion of the haze (colored blue) does seem to be just that -- a bubble or cavity. Could it be a pocket of some sort of gas anomaly?

I don't believe I've encountered that particular picture of Titan's atmosphere in my travels or, if I have, the Alzheimer-effect is beginning to tell!
It certainly is fascinating to speculate that perhaps some kind of localised cryo-volcanic event resulted in an outpouring of gas from the surface. It's possible to imagine such a quantity of relatively warm gas, though still cold by Earthly standards, belched out from Titan's equivalent of a terrestrial volcano and rising as an enormous bubble in the freezing Titanian air.
Gathering together all our data about Titan, even this archival stuff, is what it's all about as we struggle to understand this amazing moon. There could be all sorts of vital clues hidden in the old Voyager files.
Nice detective work, Cindy. :up:

DonPanic · 2005-01-16 17:44:19

That's a very nice site you've linked for us, DonPanic. :up:

LO, its my usual science forum, some professionnal physicists do keep a high scientific level, but alike almost all french forum sites, lots of trolls, you know, the kinda people who think that screaming higher or that delivering the last post will prove that they are always right, and arguings turn on very agressive ways. So, when I'm tired of this typical french mess, I come here to have polite chats

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-01-16 18:00:29

Not to take anything away from the great efforts in getting great results from NASAs / ESAs Cassini-Huygens Lander but the Cassini Mothership is still doing great, and getting those Saturn photos out.

Check the rings

http://ciclops.lpl.arizona.edu/media/dr … 1397_1.jpg

We have a load of data from Titan, People on the web and still playing with the Titan images and bringing out great photos, Mosaic of 360 degrees from spaceflight now

http://uplink.space.com/attachments//12 … ure2_L.jpg

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/cassini/i … ontage.jpg

http://anthony.liekens.net/images/titan … mbined.png

http://anthony.liekens.net/images/titan … ndered.jpg

http://uplink.space.com/attachments//12 … cture8.jpg

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Re: Cassini-Huygens III - Continued from previous

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