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#1 2004-08-12 22:29:59

Dook
Banned
From: USA
Registered: 2004-01-09
Posts: 1,409

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#000000:post_uid0]When I was younger I never believed for a second that aliens could possibly reach us.  With light speed being the speed limit it just doesn't seem possible considering the distances.  Over the years I've read quite a bit of information (some very strange stuff) on Roswell and other sightings and I've changed my mind.  Not that I think they are here but now my mind is open to the possibility simply because I can't prove they are not. 

Maybe there is a way to travel great distances without necessarily exceeding the speed of light?

Considering that most of the alien ship sightings are from unreliable sources we also have to note that some are from very reliable sources: military pilots trained to recognize enemy aircraft, commercial pilots, police officers...

As far as Roswell goes, there seems to me to be some kind of real cover up, just exactly what it is I don't know.  Why would they announce to the reporters that it was an alien ship crash and then change it?  I don't usually believe in conspiracies mostly because I don't think the government could really keep something like that quiet.  Someone would talk but then if they did the public wouldn't believe them anyway so... 

Lastly, what do you think would be the effect on the population if aliens were really visiting the earth?  Would there really be riots and panic?[/color:post_uid0]

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#2 2004-08-13 00:38:11

Gennaro
Member
From: Eta Cassiopeiae (no, Sweden re
Registered: 2003-03-25
Posts: 591

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#000000:post_uid0]It's funny UFO subjects nearly ever turn up on this site, so for a change, why not discuss it!

First thing I always keep in mind is the astonishing length to which even credible people can go to tell lies, construct false memories or generally delude themselves. I learned this after studying the holocaust.
In one trial for example (about a hellhole called Belsen) there were two chief witnesses on the gas chambers of Auschwitz (since it included prisoners and staff that had been transferred from there). One was disregarded right away by the British military court for the sheer physical implausibilty of her story, telling the court a tall tale about how she had been dumped into a subterrenean room from a truck, into which gas was pumped, and later miraculously rescued. Another, a female physician, who made a much more serious impression, was however believed (and she thereby helped along a couple of individuals to the gallows).
The funny, or rather grotesque, thing about it though was that her very detailed and thorough description of the interior of one of the crematoria she said she'd visited herself, being shown around by an SS man, was precisely as incorrect as the first one, only in different ways. She described something that simply had never existed at that site. It was all made up. She was only very reassuring and matter of fact about it.
This would have been immedeately clear to the legal authorities if they only had payed a visit to Auschwitz or studied a simple blueprint of the layout and supposed operation of the crematoria/gas chambers. But physical evidence wasn't required in those proceedings. That's how easy it is to dupe a criminal court if you have nothing to go on but witness statements.

If that could happen within such a serious context, by someone who really shouldn't have had any reason to tell abject lies at all, it will take a whole lot to convince me of any UFO story, no matter who is involved or how 'big' it looks.

Last time I heard about Roswell was on the Discovery Channel. Some dude who previously had testified about the UFO remains were shown bits of pieces of a certain type of weather balloon and guaranteed that was exactly what he saw on that day.

But who knows, maybe the powers that are had simply cut a very lucrative deal with this man? tongue

Maybe there is a way to travel great distances without necessarily exceeding the speed of light?[/quote:post_uid0]

Or maybe the relativity theories are simply wrong, after all?

As for what would happen if it was really proven to be true that we were visited, I don't think it would create any riots and panic at all. A lot of people would be extremely interested in examining and getting to know more about it though. Including myself.[/color:post_uid0]

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#3 2004-08-13 05:52:57

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#8D38C9:post_uid4]

Why would they announce to the reporters that it was an alien ship crash and then change it?  I don't usually believe in conspiracies mostly because I don't think the government could really keep something like that quiet.[/quote:post_uid4]
*Roswell is about 4 hours' drive from where I live.

I've been somewhat familiar with the story in the past (10 years ago or so, especially when first moving to this area), but I've gotten rusty on it.

Do we know for certain the gov't representatives told the reporters it was an alien ship crash?  It was the late 1940s.  No shoulder-riding TV cameras back then.  And did they even tape record most news interviews (except for high political or war-related stuff...and yes, I know WWII was over by the time the Roswell story broke)?  I thought back then they basically relied on hand-written notes, and any "live" newscasts were done over the radio.

Why believe what the reporters said, unless there is written/officially documented gov't reports or a gov't official from the time on film (ala "newsreel") or tape recording?

--Cindy[/color:post_uid4]


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#4 2004-08-13 06:07:49

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=000066:post_uid0]Well, my impression is this: Something crashed at Roswell that was [i:post_uid0]not[/i:post_uid0] a weather balloon, and the government was and remains keen on keeping a lid on it. But that hardly means it was an alien spacecraft.[/color:post_uid0]


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#5 2004-08-13 06:14:15

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#8D38C9:post_uid4]

Well, my impression is this: Something crashed at Roswell that was [i:post_uid4]not[/i:post_uid4] a weather balloon, and the government was and remains keen on keeping a lid on it. But that hardly means it was an alien spacecraft.[/quote:post_uid4]
*Consider:  Trinity and the detonation of the first A-bomb in NM.  Alamogordo is usually connected with the Trinity site, but actually Trinity is roughly 70 miles NW of Alamogordo and actually is closer to Truth or Consequences (and farther from Roswell) -- separated by a chain of mountains.  1945. 

The nuclear program/testing in NM didn't stop in 1945, IIRC.  The Roswell incident was 1947 - (? will have to Google when I have another free minute)

Probably not a "weather balloon" either.  Likely part of the nuclear program?  I'd say very likely.  Would definitely want to keep that "hush-hush."

--Cindy[/color:post_uid4]


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#6 2004-08-13 13:19:50

Dook
Banned
From: USA
Registered: 2004-01-09
Posts: 1,409

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I've never seen anything (UFO or alien) but I've talked to a couple of people who claim to have.  Really only one guy made me think that he possibly saw something, the others were all kind of out there.

He said he was walking just after sundown on a dirt road up around Half Moon Bay (coastal California).  He had a fight with a girlfriend so he went almost a mile up this road.  Well he came to a spot where there were a lot of this type of reed (I don't remember what type he said.  Reed as in water plant).  Well something moved ahead and he stopped.  Just then he saw someone looking at him through the reeds.  He could tell that it wasn't normal.  It was short, tan skinned, and had a large head with giant eyes.  He said he knew right away that it wasn't-normal, but he wasn't in the mood to inquire further.  He was out there to get away from everything, even aliens I guess.  So he just turned around and walked away.  Well, the next day he went back and there were no reeds.

He told me because he knew I was into space exploration and thought maybe I knew something more about UFO's.  He's absolutely positive what he saw was not human and the thing that really bothers me is that he's not the type to make up something like that.  We haven't talked about that since.[/color:post_uid0]

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#7 2004-08-13 13:52:20

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#810541:post_uid4]*Delete previous comments.  One of my comments already taken out of context.

--Cindy[/color:post_uid4]


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#8 2004-08-13 15:54:30

EarthWolf
Member
From: Missouri, U.S.A.
Registered: 2004-07-20
Posts: 59

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Hello,

I saw a documentary on the subject and it said that the publicity officer at Roswell Army Air Field had issued the news release that the Army had recovered a flying disk. The base intelligence officer had made an honest mistake. The recovered wreckage was that of a high altitude balloon with a scientific instrument package that tested the atmosphere for evidence of Soviet nuclear testing. The base then released another announcement that the wreckage was indeed, a weather balloon.

The Army did hush up the incident and issued the press release, calling the wreckage a weather balloon, so the project's secrecy could be maintained. I believe that there are alien civilizations out there, I'm skeptical if they ever actually visited us.

Cordially,

[i:post_uid0]EarthWolf[/i:post_uid0][/color:post_uid0]


" Man will not always stay on the Earth. "

Konstantin Tsiolkovsky

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#9 2004-08-13 16:04:52

Gennaro
Member
From: Eta Cassiopeiae (no, Sweden re
Registered: 2003-03-25
Posts: 591

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Yes, I made a slip up. That's what they said in the documentary I saw as well. A classified military scientific balloon, not a weather balloon.

Anyway, I don't claim to be an expert on Roswell. Sometimes with controversies there's a box, inside a box, inside a box...[/color:post_uid0]

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#10 2004-08-13 17:59:09

prometheusunbound
Member
From: ohio
Registered: 2003-07-02
Posts: 209
Website

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#FF0000:post_uid0]

Maybe some Air Force hot-shot jet tryout, who knows.
[/quote:post_uid0]

The sealth bomber was secret from the public for nearly 10 years.  Of COURSE the government has airplanes we don't know about.  I think the CIA or FBI or god knows what agency would rather have us believe that there are Aliens walking around on earth. 

What really kicks me is the profiglaration of anal probes.  Why would aliens travel millions of light years to look at a A**?  Get real.  I think these people have some sort of emotional/sexual problems that need to be delt with.[/color:post_uid0]


"I am the spritual son of Abraham, I fear no man and no man controls my destiny"

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#11 2004-08-16 17:15:30

RobS
Member
From: South Bend, IN
Registered: 2002-01-15
Posts: 1,701
Website

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#000000:post_uid0]My opinion as a scientist, for what it's worth, is that the Earth has never been visited by aliens. I am extremely sceptical of claims, especially when compared to wierd claims anyone can make up and make sound plausible.

Any alien race that is inteligent would know that if they come in contact with Earth, the US would use the technology against their enemies, the Russians, the Chinese, etc., the same. It is not worth the hassle for them to deal with such short-sighted and immature creatures as humans. Besides, it's complete unnecessary. Even fifty years ago, they could have figured out plenty listening to the radio. Today television and cable leave nothing to the imagination, from human reproduction to history channel documentaries on ancient civilizations and National Geographic specials on obscure species and environments. With most human knowledge flowing over the web now, any savvy civilization could sit back and brouse and avoid the risks of field research.

Then there's the problem of biological contamination, of their microorganisms in our biosphere and vice versa. A human being (and presumably any alien) is a walking microbe colony.

In short, aliens that land on Earth would have to be stupid, and if they are stupid they couldn't get to our solar system.

        -- RobS[/color:post_uid0]

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#12 2004-09-03 10:48:00

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,892

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#000000:post_uid14]While this happened a long time ago many believe in sightings still even today of UFO and of alien beings.

‘Flying Triangle’ sightings on the rise
New analysis spurs speculation on secret planes
They have become legendary in UFO circles. Huge, silent-running “Flying Triangles” have been seen by ground observers creeping through the sky low and slow near cities, and quietly cruising over highways.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5897539/[/color:post_uid14]

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#13 2004-11-17 04:49:51

johnfuller
Member
From: Brighton UK
Registered: 2004-11-17
Posts: 10

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I beleive the UFO and weather balloon were cover stories in the interst of national security. New craft were being tested all through this era and many were top secret. Maybe pilots also died in test flights (purely speculative).[/color:post_uid0]

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#14 2004-11-17 12:39:34

Gennaro
Member
From: Eta Cassiopeiae (no, Sweden re
Registered: 2003-03-25
Posts: 591

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Related to the subject, here is an interesting link:

http://www.presidentialufo.com/scepticism.htm[/color:post_uid0]

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#15 2004-12-11 21:10:25

Ad Astra
Member
Registered: 2003-02-02
Posts: 584

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Well, my impression is this: Something crashed at Roswell that was [i:post_uid0]not[/i:post_uid0] a weather balloon, and the government was and remains keen on keeping a lid on it. But that hardly means it was an alien spacecraft.[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]I tend to agree with this sentiment.  Very credible people have described the wreckage, while most of the witnesses to alien bodies have been dismissed as cranks or have tried to sell their stories.

As Columbia and high-speed jets have proven, the debris field of a high-speed, high-altitude aircraft is very long.  The Roswell debris field was quite small, about the size of three football fields.  Whatever exploded there must have been small and going low and slow.

The nature of the wreckage suggests that the craft's structure was very high-tech, but not alien by any stretch.  I-beams?  Fibre-optic cables?  Memory alloys?  The Roswell wreckage matches these now-common items.

Anybody who wants to learn the full Roswell story should read from Phillip Klass (anti-alien) and two very different, pro-alien accounts (but still very thoroughly-researched) from Stanton Friedman and Kevin Randle.

Botom line is that I think it was probably a secret aircraft project.  The Germans had a number of saucer-shaped aircraft in development by the end of WWII, and it's not impossible that one was captured and tested in the US.  Why a secret aircraft would stay that way over fifty years ater is beyond me, but many of the government's secrecy rules are quite arcane.  Anybody who has tried to get info about spy satellites knows what I'm talking about.[/color:post_uid0]


Who needs Michael Griffin when you can have Peter Griffin?  Catch "Family Guy" Sunday nights on FOX.

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#16 2004-12-12 20:19:27

Shaun Barrett
Member
From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2001-12-28
Posts: 2,843

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#000000:post_uid4]Ad Astra:-

Botom line is that I think it was probably a secret aircraft project.  The Germans had a number of saucer-shaped aircraft in development by the end of WWII, and it's not impossible that one was captured and tested in the US. [/quote:post_uid4]
    This would fit in with some substantial evidence put forward in the book "The Hunt for Zero Point", by [i:post_uid4]Jane's Defence Weekly[/i:post_uid4] Aerospace Consultant, Nick Cook. There have been persistent rumours for decades about U.S. military black projects concerned with electro-gravitics, the underlying physics for which was reportedly captured from Nazi scientists by American troops in 1945.
    Since any such projects would be subject to the utmost security and secrecy, we can only scratch around the edges for circumstantial indications as to their veracity.
    If electro-gravitics were still part of covert military research today, and more recent rumours about the B-2 bomber seem to suggest it could be, it would explain why the Roswell Incident might still be classified over 50 years later.[/color:post_uid4]


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

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#17 2004-12-21 22:25:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,892

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#000000:post_uid14]Well for those up late the Rosewell show the alien attack is showing on the scifi channel here in NH.[/color:post_uid14]

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#18 2005-01-14 14:25:35

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,892

Re: Roswell Really Happened?

[color=#000000:post_uid14]Gee well here is a theory that is connected to the existance of other Earth planets being possible.

Does science make room for aliens? Researchers argue that new theories better the odds

Decades ago, it was physicist Enrico Fermi who pondered the issue of extraterrestrial civilizations with fellow theorists over lunch, generating the famous quip: "Where are they?" That question later became central to debates about the cosmological census count of other star folk and possible extraterrestrial visitors from afar.

Fermi’s brooding on the topic was later labeled "Fermi’s paradox." It is a well-traveled tale from the 1950s when the scientist broached the subject in discussions with colleagues in Los Alamos, N.M. Thoughts regarding the probability of earthlike planets, the rise of highly advanced civilizations "out there," and interstellar travel — these remain fodder for trying to respond to Fermi’s paradox even today.
[/quote:post_uid14][/color:post_uid14]

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