Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

clark · 2004-10-12 06:15:12

Nah, you can allow gay men. Just one though. It's lonely being the only gay man on Mars. :laugh:

Sorry, but group dynamics can be affected by certain human equations. We can artificaly expect everyone to be adults, or we can be realistic and consider the very real chance of problems resulting from certain combinations of crew members. It would be unwise to have blacks or jews if we were sending racists or neo-nazi's. You can see that, right?

Most violence is begat from a disparity of resources, human companionship a resource. But hey, send all women, I don't care.

Commodore · 2004-10-12 16:18:11

Sorry, but group dynamics can be affected by certain human equations. We can artificaly expect everyone to be adults, or we can be realistic and consider the very real chance of problems resulting from certain combinations of crew members. It would be unwise to have blacks or jews if we were sending racists or neo-nazi's. You can see that, right?

Thats right. They have to either be all Yankees fans, or Red Soxs fans.

RobS · 2004-10-12 18:08:17

Zubrin's new book *Mars on Earth* talks about the experience gained from the various Mars base simulations, and he says this: the crew going to Mars should be made up either of couples or of people in strong committed relationships (with the other partner on Earth), and that women should be included, but not just one woman, as that tends to create difficulties for that woman.

-- RobS

comstar03 · 2004-10-12 18:30:25

I think it gets back to training and command structure, I think we need academy based on the ideals of star trek philosophy about the training, creating a cross between a military style and scientific style. At the end of the day we need to create an environment that relationships between genders, races, and ideals can exist without missions and lives in danger or effected too much.

That is why a larger vessel is better because you could bring a social counsellor along for the voyage to mars then oversee the social dynamics on the outpost and eventually the settlement.

Dook · 2004-10-12 19:03:23

It would be unwise to have blacks or jews if we were sending racists or neo-nazi's. You can see that, right?

Unwise to have blacks or jews if we are sending racists or neo-nazi's??????

Uh, how about leave the racists and neo-nazi's at home rather than the blacks and jews.

I really think people are putting too much into this. Astronauts are military and science professionals that will give their lives for the sake of a mission. They are the best of the best. You can pick any 4 of them and they will do what they have to do to accomplish the mission. I'm not saying there won't be disagreements but without a doubt the command and rank structure is something they will follow.

John Creighton · 2004-10-12 19:33:30

hmmmm......I don't remember very many women or black people on star track. Interesting future.

comstar03 · 2004-10-12 20:16:53

John,

Every series had women, blacks, chinese, russians and other races. I think you need open your eyes, in classic, next generation, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise have a global heritage of humanity onboard of the starship.

But they had the training and they had the ideals of a space exploration force for all of humanity, not one country or one race or one belief on earth.

ANTIcarrot. · 2004-10-13 04:53:28

Jasper Carrot (no relation) reports:

NASA recently made an announcement about future mars missions. Because women do better in school, are smaller, use less life support, complain less, are used to long hours of hard work with little reword, get along with each other better, and don't need drugs to keep thier minds off sex, that it would be better if a future mars mission was composed almost entirely of women. In fact, the only job left open to a male would be the role of 'leasure' officer.

Jasper Carrot was outraged by this blatant deflamination of his gender! He was so outraged, in fact, that he could barely keep his hand from shaking as he filled in the application form.

ANTIcarrot.

SpaceNut · 2004-10-13 10:27:13

Now back on subject sort of the Volunteers are Needed For the Mars Society Mars Desert Reseach Station (MDRS) Crews: Hard Work, No Pay, Eternal Glory, in southern Utah during extended simulations of human Mars exploration operations. Field season will begin in December 2004 and run through April 2005. Mars Society will also be issuing an additional call for volunteers for the summer 2005 field season of the Flashline Mars Arctic Research Station (FMARS) on Devon Island later.

Isn't it about time that NASA sends Astronauts to partake in the research effort.

http://www.marssociety.org/news/2004/1010.asp

Ad Astra · 2004-10-13 15:31:12

I think the MDRS stations are more than simply a game of "Mars dress-up." They do provide plenty of insight into the challenges of operating on Mars, especially the need for at least six crew members. The experience still has room for growth, however. Once the "astronauts" are in full pressure suits designed for Mars mobility and driving in pressurized Mars rovers, I will be impressed.

SpaceNut · 2004-10-15 19:54:31

On the note of astronauts and of the reduced if not 0 G gravity, not to mention the use of lower atmospheric conditions that might provail in the habitat. How would one go about the much needed research or of the eventual crew personel that could resist such effects.

I think one way would be to study the people who live in the mountainous terrains on Earth. Such as in the Alps, chilean mountain range and of course the Hymalans. But we should also study the people of the artic since they are best suited for the prevailing cold conditions of a mars surface as well. Then once these people are studied here on Earth then study them once again under the condition of space.

GCNRevenger · 2004-10-15 21:03:11

Low air pressures aren't really a big problem, people adapt to them okay and the HABs/rovers can be run up to a pretty good pressure.

The best solution to the problem of extended zero-G, is of course to minimize exposure to zero-G. People aren't suited to operate without gravity for extended (>6mo) periods, so if you are going to go someplace thats further off then Mars or Venus you either need to have artifical gravity or a better propulsion system (eg GCR/VASMIR or GCNR thermal rockets).

SpaceNut · 2004-10-25 07:55:34

It appear that we have a new reason to think out long duration missions in the developing of cateracts due to high energy radiation particles and that we must do more research into protecting the astronauts vision since they are at risk for such damage once leaving Earths protective fields.

SpaceNut · 2004-12-15 08:33:42

Possible solutions are to create a magnetic bubble around the ship, much like the one that surround our fair planet Earth. But how to do it has been the question.

A Magnetosphere of One's Own

A group of scientists has built a $10 million device that mimics the magnetic fields surrounding the Earth and other planets. The scientists hope to use the device to understand how the Earth's protective magnetosphere works -- and possibly gain insights into how to make fusion a feasible energy source.
This experiment is the first time a high-temperature magnetosphere has been constructed in a lab, said professor Michael Mauel, co-head of the experiment and chair of Columbia University's Department of Applied Physics and Applied Mathematics.

bolbuyk · 2004-12-23 13:22:52

I think the most serious challenge of staying long in space are the psychological aspects. Medical considerations about radiation and bone weakening are better understood and can be handled. It's nott clear to me what the Russians found on their cosmonauts who stayed a year or longer in space, but they never reported serious medical problems about bone weakening.

SpaceNut · 2005-01-06 08:23:16

Building a tool to examine bone quality for space and Earth-based diagnosis

A portable imaging device currently in development by the National Space Biomedical Research Institute (NSBRI) will produce clear, highly detailed pictures of bone and tissue, helping physicians manage bone health in space and on Earth. The Scanning Confocal Acoustic Diagnostic system, or SCAD, will enable doctors to determine the rate of loss and plan treatment options with the aid of high-quality images, taken noninvasively.

Sort of sounds like an ultra sound machine used to view new born child developement.

Other noble uses for this technology:

“Aside from use inflight, my goal is to make this device available to physicians across disciplines to improve the diagnosis of osteopenia and osteoporosis,” Qin said. “Because such diseases are essentially painless at the initial stages, they are difficult to pinpoint and often diagnosed late.”

SpaceNut · 2005-01-11 08:24:14

It really is rocket science for Nahant man

An experiment a local resident is working on may yield technology to protect astronauts from the effects of radiation during missions to Mars.
Manning, who said he believes he will see a manned-mission to Mars in his lifetime, and his colleagues at CAMMP are researching Zeolite crystals, which he said are hard like rocks and act as sponges because the crystals are full of tunnels that can store water and chemicals.
Manning said the crystals are the backbone of the chemical processes industry and are a catalyst used to convert crude oil to gasoline. The crystals are also used in a variety of household applications, including cat litter to absorb odor, water filters to remove impurities, in laundry detergents to soften hard water, and in automobile catalytic converters to reduce pollutants.
In space, Zeolite has already been used to recover, purify and recycle air and water aboard spacecraft.
Manning said Zeolite could help protect humans from radiation on manned trips to Mars because the crystals have already demonstrated extraordinary stability when tested as radioactive waste disposal containment materials.
"Zeolites absorb radiation and could help mitigate the effects of cosmic and galactic radiation. It could be used on the exterior of the aircraft and the interior as well," Manning said.
Radiation degrades food and Manning said he believes the crystals could also be used to develop food packaging for manned missions.
"When we send people to Mars, we have to send their lunch," he chuckled.
Manning had a hand in developing the first samples that were processed in the Zeolite Crystal Growth Furnace on the international space station and some of his experiments were part of the payload on the space shuttle Columbia (STS-107) when it disintegrated 19 miles above the earth on Feb. 1, 2003.

SpaceNut · 2005-02-08 05:56:21

Bright Idea: UNM prof helps NASA feel the burn

On Earth, fitness comes from muscles working to resist weight, bones thickening from impact work and the heart straining to keep up with the body. But in space, where even the heaviest of barbells floats, astronauts can't easily get the resistance, impact and cardiovascular workout they need to keep healthy.
without proper exercise, astronauts lose about 1 percent of their bone mass per month, similar to the rate of bone loss of women with osteoporosis.

Outlines a new device or machine in the article.

dicktice · 2005-02-08 17:22:22

SpaceNut wrote: It appear that we have a new reason to think out long duration missions in the developing of cateracts due to high energy radiation particles and that we must do more research into protecting the astronauts vision since they are at risk for such damage once leaveing Earths protective fields.
I have twin cataract lens implants, which are essentially plexiglas, impervious to radiation particle damage, and they are just wonderful, in that they have corrected my extreme nearsightednes so I can fly without glasses (except bifocals, of course, since there is no accomodation for closeup reading . . . which of course, at my age, was gone anyway). Next objection?

Martian Republic · 2005-02-08 18:26:22

SpaceNut wrote: It appear that we have a new reason to think out long duration missions in the developing of cateracts due to high energy radiation particles and that we must do more research into protecting the astronauts vision since they are at risk for such damage once leaveing Earths protective fields.
I have twin cataract lens implants, which are essentially plexiglas, impervious to radiation particle damage, and they are just wonderful, in that they have corrected my extreme nearsightednes so I can fly without glasses (except bifocals, of course, since there is no accomodation for closeup reading . . . which of course, at my age, was gone anyway). Next objection?

We obviously need to work on shielding people from that radiation. There are several ways to deal with this problem. It ranges from both passive to active shielding to making the travel time less by developing new types of drive engines that can propel our space ship faster. Then there is the biological method of cell repair. We will probably use all four methods when every things has been said and done.

Larry,

SpaceNut · 2005-02-09 06:06:42

Good day Mr. dicktice you pose a good question on the effects and response to radiation.

I guess the issue with radiation and cataracts developing is one of how soon after exposure does one get them and who would preform the implant operation in space if such should occur.

Then on the biological repair process, what can be done once repair process has been started to minimize reoccurance and risk of cancer due to continued damage.

SpaceNut · 2005-03-29 12:28:07

Experimentation into the effects of such a journey has begun with the ESA WISE program.

ESA Embeds 24 Women For Sixty Days

Since 19 March, the study entitled Women International Space Simulation for Exploration (WISE) has been fully under way. All participants in the first two campaigns have been lying in bed, tilted head down at an angle of 6º below horizontal, so that their heads are slightly lower than their feet.
This position results in physiological changes that also occur in astronauts during space flight. The study will assess the roles of nutrition and combined physical exercise in countering the adverse effects of prolonged gravitational unloading by bed-rest.

And then there is the Russian version of 500 days in a can.

dicktice · 2005-03-29 17:17:11

Keeping yourself and your clothes clean, on the extended voyage in close confines, is bound to be a problem, but cleaning methods that use chemical solvents would accumulate and/or plug-up the air filtration system. Here is a new approach which may provide the answer:

[Quote, Tuesday, March 29, 2005]
Detergent-free washing under development in Australia
Australian scientists are working on a method to make it possible to wash clothes without using environmentally-disruptive detergents. Washing clothes in plain water is ineffective because oily dirt is resistant to water. The scientists have found that degassing the water by removing the air dissolved in it greatly enhances the water's ability to lift oil and dirt from fabric. If you enjoy this article, you may also be interested in an article entitled 'Warning: many dryer sheets contain cancer causing chemicals.'
Overview: Philip Ball Gas-free water cleans greasy stains without soap.
Detergent-free cleaning is being developed by researchers in Australia.
Oily dirt does not normally dissolve in water.
But Richard Pashley and colleagues at the Australian National University in Canberra have shown that water is much better at dispersing oily substances if any air dissolved in it is removed, in a process called degassing.
Water can be degassed cheaply and efficiently by pumping it through a porous membrane, the researchers say, and then sprayed on to surfaces and fabrics.
This could reduce our use of detergents, which create environmental problems when they are washed into the water system: detergents can fertilize algal growth so much that animals in swamps and lakes are harmed.
Pashley and his team tested normal distilled water and degassed water by filling oily test tubes with water and shaking them for several seconds.
This shows that the oil was dispersed throughout the water as tiny droplets, and suggests that degassed water could lift oily stains off clothing.
Normal water contains tiny nitrogen and oxygen bubbles.
These accumulate on the surface of water-repellent, or hydrophobic, materials that are in contact with the water.
Conventional detergents surround grease droplets with a layer of detergent molecules, giving them a water-soluble coating.
The team removes gas from water samples using several cycles of freezing and vacuum pumping.
Degassed water reabsorbs gases when exposed to the air, but the researchers say that this would happen so slowly that it would not harm the cleaning power of freshly degassed water sprayed on dirty material.
In fact, as air seeps into the used water, it could cause dirt particles in the water to stick together, making them easy to filter out.
Source: http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050124/ … 124-3.html

SpaceNut · 2005-03-30 06:56:22

Not to mention that after a good clothes cleaning that the water needs to be recycled. So the less you use of these other cleaning products the better for the use of the water for drinking.

Grypd · 2005-03-30 11:02:48

Then again if you want to kill bacteria etc that cause clothing to stink simply put it in a cage and put it outside for a day. The heavy radiation that both Mars and the Moon recieve will kill all such bacteria.

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#101 2004-10-12 06:15:12

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#102 2004-10-12 16:18:11

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#103 2004-10-12 18:08:17

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#104 2004-10-12 18:30:25

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#105 2004-10-12 19:03:23

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#106 2004-10-12 19:33:30

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#107 2004-10-12 20:16:53

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#108 2004-10-13 04:53:28

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#109 2004-10-13 10:27:13

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#110 2004-10-13 15:31:12

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#111 2004-10-15 19:54:31

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#112 2004-10-15 21:03:11

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#113 2004-10-25 07:55:34

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#114 2004-12-15 08:33:42

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#115 2004-12-23 13:22:52

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#116 2005-01-06 08:23:16

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#117 2005-01-11 08:24:14

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#118 2005-02-08 05:56:21

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#119 2005-02-08 17:22:22

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#120 2005-02-08 18:26:22

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#121 2005-02-09 06:06:42

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#122 2005-03-29 12:28:07

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