Layered universe - Personal theory

chat · 2004-12-28 20:16:04

This is a personal theory about the universe, so all feedback is welcome.

What if the initial big bang was not an even event.
The big bang in current theory allows for the first micro second for faster than light travel.

My idea is that the universe is layered from the initial universal expansion.(big bang)

What we see in all the universe is simply 50% or less of the matter and energy that existed at the start.
The other 50% or more is outside our universe due to its initial faster than C speed.

Since that matter and energy still exists as part of our universe the gravity will still effect the layer of the universe we live in.

This is a simple solution to the universe speeding up, and no dark matter need exist for the speedup to occur.

The inside and outside edges of the layers are pulling each other with gravity.
The outside edge from outside seems to be slowing, the inside seems to be speeding up.

Any ideas on what experiment would prove or disprove this idea?
If it's true it's the missing matter in the universe.

SpaceNut · 2004-12-28 20:50:41

I think you have described the space time dimensions. For the fabric of what can be seen to agree with what would be the estimates of all energy at a big bang moment would mean that it was contained sort of like in a bubble with each bounce off the sides rebounding and returning in the opposite direction until it has slowed to light speed. Hopefully that would explain the young galaxies within what is visible now.

C M Edwards · 2004-12-29 09:34:32

What if the initial big bang was not an even event.
The big bang in current theory allows for the first micro second for faster than light travel.
My idea is that the universe is layered from the initial universal expansion.(big bang)

Well, I don't know about the actual current structure (layered, foamy, etc.). However, an uneven big bang event is a logical assumption.

That faster than light expansion you refer to is allowed by Inflation theories of the beginning of the universe. In these theories, the transition from the universe's initial state to the space-time we now know & love did not occur until after this FTL expansion (i.e., cosmological inflation). The change was analogous to a state transition in matter (freezing, melting, etc.), only it occured in space-time. The reason the FTL expansion continued long enough to make the entire universe was because it entered a state analogous to supercooling, allowing it to remain in an inflationary state and keep expanding FTL even when the energy of space was low enough to allow it to change to "ordinary" space.

If you've ever seen a state transition of supercooled/superheated matter, you know that there's a complex energy transfer within the fluid. It doesn't all freeze or vaporize at once, and it doesn't just start the transition at a little seed and continue out from there in a perfectly uniform spherical bubble. The transition front extends along a complex path determined by the nature and condition of the fluid, spreading out in layers, spikes, cottony filaments, etc. according to its wont. The change is not uniform, and can equalize with different states of matter existing right next to each other.

It's highly likely that the universe behaved similarly. There may be entire regions of the universe that never made the state transition in question. They wouldn't intrude on our "solidified" portion of the universe any more than cooling water intrudes into ice, but they could still carry us along.

What we see in all the universe is simply 50% or less of the matter and energy that existed at the start.

Try 0.000005% or less. Many popular theories propose that all the mass in the observable universe was created by converting energy to matter (ala relativity), a process that usually yields exactly equal amounts of matter and antimatter. The two eventually annihilated each other, and the tiny insignificant trace of matter left over cooled off and became all the matter in our universe.

Since that matter and energy still exists as part of our universe the gravity will still effect the layer of the universe we live in.

Hmm...

The inside and outside edges of the layers are pulling each other with gravity.
The outside edge from outside seems to be slowing, the inside seems to be speeding up.

Um, no. The scales involved would argue against any sort of 'edge effects'. Our entire observable universe would just be a part of the equation.

Still, it's an intriguing idea. I'm becoming disillusioned with Dark Matter theories to explain the many gravitational anomalies to be seen in our universe. Every time something new comes along, they tend to just tack on another bell & whistle. They're inelegant, and no longer satisfy Occam's razor. They're probably quite wrong.

I do wish there was something to replace them, but that's what theorists get paid the big bucks for. :;):

Any ideas on what experiment would prove or disprove this idea?

Not a freaking clue! :laugh:

Palomar · 2004-12-29 09:49:48

*Chat, I read your post, and the example of the http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish … 2004]Helix Nebula came to mind, as regards the layering issue. Would the Helix Nebula be the microscopic example ("sort of" or otherwise) to your Big Bang macroscopic?

(I posted the above article in the "New Discoveries *4*" thread a few weeks ago -- just thought I'd mention it, in the event it seems familiar to regular NM members)

Maybe I'm way off here, but this is what immediately came to mind. The double disks, the varying expansion rates of each, etc., as compared to your musings.

--Cindy

MarsDog · 2004-12-29 10:09:51

Large scale theoretical approximations have their limits. And the large scale effects are the result of small scale events. The apparent ramdomness of small scale events, somehow produce large scale patterns.

The processes that pruduce reality are hidden.
And an infinite number of theories could explain them.

chat · 2004-12-29 12:02:18

C M Edwards,

The dark matter was the reason i began thinking how a universe could get faster over time without it.

If dark matter doesn't exist then the layered idea might be the only explanation for a universe seemingly flying faster apart.

I to agree that dark matter has a host of problems, the math just doesn't look right for dark matter and galaxies to exist at the same time.
If you have 1 the math seems to point to the other not being able to exist.

Well unless dark matter and matter were also very poorly distributed.

Anti matter and matter destruction still yields all the energy and mass we see, just in different forms.
Less matter more radiation.

An interesting event would occur when the two layers meet in a layered universe.
The net speed difference will cancel each other out, then gravity will dominate all the universe.

A simple way for the universe to begin its collapse back to the original point, and next but first big bang as time itself comes to an end.

As the universe begins to collapse all the matter and anti matter that didn't react with each other will have lots of time to react.

As the universe shrinks an increasing % of radiation and heat due to it, and less matter.

When it all becomes a single black hole the reason for the expansion (big bang) is time, all gravity and no time and no other force.
When gravity collapses time itself, then nothing exists to stop the next big bang (and first big bang) since time will start at that point.

A little un nerving to think that the universe might just be a repeating cycle with no start time and no end time.
No chicken or egg.

MarsDog,

I noticed a science report a few weeks ago about the voyager spacecrafts being in the wrong place.
They were both slightly less distant than could be explained by any means.
Of course dark matter immediately popped up as a possible reason, but even the best minds are stumped on it.

Maybe it is the layer effect of gravity from 2 sources that has caused voyager to be slightly in the wrong place.

ecrasez_l_infame,

It seems to show that star explosions are messy events that end up in layers, might be an idea for the entire universe to expect the mightiest explosion to be the same.

SpaceNut,

another good point.
How did the universe create those galaxies we see at the edge of what can be seen.
At that age of the universe they shouldn't be fully formed galaxies.
Something wrong with our understanding of things for sure, or what we are seeing isn't correct in the perception, or the universe doesn't work the way we think.
Maybe the big bang was simply a nova explosion that isn't finished yet, and the universe is much bigger than we could ever imagine.

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#1 2004-12-28 20:16:04

Re: Layered universe - Personal theory

#2 2004-12-28 20:50:41

Re: Layered universe - Personal theory

#3 2004-12-29 09:34:32

Re: Layered universe - Personal theory

#4 2004-12-29 09:49:48

Re: Layered universe - Personal theory

#5 2004-12-29 10:09:51

Re: Layered universe - Personal theory

#6 2004-12-29 12:02:18

Re: Layered universe - Personal theory

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