Dr Jeffrey Bell - His Personal View

Grypd · 2004-12-22 16:18:06

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-04z … Spacedaily article. Opinion space

Mr Bell gives his opinion on the state of the space race and how his views have been percieved and the trouble that it has given him.

I can understand how the failures and disapointments of the space industry do make a more cautious approach to any new plan. I can understand the frustration and how every new idea has holes in its planning and how the lack of real progress in manned COLONISATION of space seems to never end.

This article should be read as Mr Bell has been castigated on these forums before and this seems to be a response as to why he says what he says. And yes I have had a go at him too.

Palomar · 2004-12-22 16:41:40

*I really don't care about his opinions.

Just my opinion.

--Cindy

P.S.: And I find it difficult to believe that every letter he's gotten from someone who disagrees strongly with him has been "hysterical" in tone and "poorly written" with bad spelling and atrocious grammar. He mentions people reacting badly towards him; IMO Mr. Bell lives for and thrives on reaction. What is the alternative but to nod vigorously and agree with him 100%? His style and tone begs for reactions, and of course he gets them...so then why the complaint? Jeff Bell: The Anne Coulter of Space Exploration?

John Creighton · 2004-12-22 17:19:00

I agree with Cindy. He is trying to become famous by feeding on controversy and I found it funny his first few paragraphs about the bell bashing. Boo hoo. Anyway, I was very impressed by the article. Although he sounds overly pessimistic at least the it was well thought out.

Shaun Barrett · 2004-12-22 18:06:20

We all share the crushing disappointment Dr. Bell exudes from every pore of his skin and a great deal of discussion at New Mars has dealt, and still deals, with the problem of cheaper access to LEO. Cheap access to LEO is what it all comes down to in the end and everyone at New Mars knows it.
The trouble with Bell is that he thinks he's one of only a select and exclusive group of academically superior individuals who've spotted this fact. In addition, he sees the very real stumbling blocks to human space exploration much more clearly than he sees the potential for overcoming them. In other words, he's thrown in the towel and now stands jeering from the sidelines at the rest of us who still have hope.

That's O.K. He's entitled to his opinion and I'm sure all of us here support his right to speak his mind. But just because he's earned himself a Ph.D in astrophysics (something he seems to think makes him very special indeed), doesn't necessarily make his opinions any more valid than those of the rest of us. Admittedly, he must be better informed on technical issues than the great majority of space advocates, including me, but he is no more highly qualified than Dr. Zubrin, whom he denigrates roundly at every opportunity, or Dr. Chris McKay of NASA Ames.

It's the easiest thing in the world, when the going gets tough, to retire from the struggle and belittle those who choose to carry on. That's Bell's position.
Maybe he's right that our cause is a forlorn one. Maybe the petty politicians and nay-sayers and Luddites, with their heads stuck in the sand, will ultimately hold sway. But I don't happen to think so.
I think people like Bell will one day be sidelined, permanently, and that humanity will expand into the Solar System. I'm happy to play whatever small part I can in that hopeful future and will continue to do so.

BWhite · 2004-12-22 19:07:01

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-04zr.html]Lee Harvey Oswald "saved" Apollo

Discuss.

BWhite · 2004-12-22 19:09:17

On this point,

So when I describe myself as a "recovering pro-space activist", I mean that I have given up on the idea that a few thousand wild-eyed space enthusiasts can bring the Millennium.

Bell is probably correct.

Palomar · 2004-12-22 19:20:39

Lee Harvey Oswald "saved" Apollo
Discuss.

*I have two words: Grassy knoll.

-*-

On this point,
So when I describe myself as a "recovering pro-space activist", I mean that I have given up on the idea that a few thousand wild-eyed space enthusiasts can bring the Millennium.
Bell is probably correct.

*Newsflash for Dr. Dingdong: Millennium is already here...for a few years now (can't "bring" what's already present).

--Cindy :;):

Martin_Tristar · 2004-12-22 19:52:55

I ejoyed that article by Dr Bell, It was the first comments that discussed the timeline of space development and the lack of space industry foresight to make things happen.

We have had many chances to succeed by we have failed and If we don't stop failing we won't go anywhere and colonize space.

RobS · 2004-12-22 22:07:59

I just read his article and think he's largely right. He never said everything sent him was hysterical or poorly written, but I am sure the fraction that were will stand out!

One big problem for any enterprise is to find intelligent skeptics. It is usually easy to find enthusiastic supporters and it is always easy to find stupid or misleading skeptics, but to find the intelligent skeptic is immensely difficult. They are very valuable; they see the weaknesses that others miss. Be thankful for people like Jeff Bell.

-- RobS

GCNRevenger · 2004-12-22 22:27:41

One big problem for any enterprise is to find intelligent skeptics. It is usually easy to find enthusiastic supporters and it is always easy to find stupid or misleading skeptics, but to find the intelligent skeptic is immensely difficult. They are very valuable; they see the weaknesses that others miss. Be thankful for people like Jeff Bell.

No, I don't think so... Doc Bell has a serious attitude problem. I don't think that he believes there are any "intelligent skeptics" worthy to challenge his deeply seated positions.

"Well I have a PHD in astrophysics young man... bla bla"

GraemeSkinner · 2004-12-22 23:12:44

"Well I have a PHD in astrophysics young man... bla bla"

A condescending intelligent person, never!

Its normal for intelligent people to be condescending though, I can explain it if you like

However intelligent a person, their brain power is wasted if they manage to annoy people to the degree that everyone stops listening to them.

Graeme

Mad Grad Student · 2004-12-22 23:47:08

IMHO Bell misses the mark entirely in his editorial. So he's pessimistic about future space development. That's okay, many of the die-hard space advocates are a little too optimistic in my opinion, but that's not why his editorials warrant so little serious consideration. I don't think I have ever once seen him make a an argument that makes a lick of sense or is anything above what a typical dime-store doom-and-gloom philosopher will tell you.

For example, back in "The Genesis Strain," he claimed that no Mars sample return mssion would ever be launched until we could prove that the red planet is sterile. This is an utterly ridiculous claim that he puts forward with no factual basis. Does a PhD in astrophysics allow you to just know what would stop everyone from launching a sample return mission? If by some fluke of nature we actually found life on Mars without sending people I think that would be an enormous boost to all Mars exploration in general. PhD or no, this is an area where I can speak with as much authority as Dr. Bell.

In his article "The Next Five Big NASA Failures," Bell asserts that Mars rocks found in Antarctica can tell us just as much about the red planet as an MSR mission can. This is perhaps even more ludicrous than his previous claims from "The Genesis Strain." It boggles the mind that someone could draw the conclusion that random pieces of Mars, dumped in the wastes of Antarctica and slowly contaminated by Earth over who knows how many millennia could yeild the scientific value of several pounds of Mars rock carefully selected and hermetically-sealed for freshness. Even if you factor in cost, MSR is clearly more cost-effective than rock hunting. You could scrounge the Earth for centuries and never find the part of Mars you want to study.

After making outrageous claims like these (there are many more I could name off the top of my head but I'll stop now for brevity) I don't know how I can possibly take Bell seriously anymore. With the recent success of alt. space programs like SpaceShipOne and future programs like Spacex, Virgin Galactic, and Rocketplane, it seems that Bell has picked the wrong time to become disillusioned with space in general. At least, here's hoping.

Palomar · 2004-12-23 08:19:35

Be thankful for people like Jeff Bell.

*Well, we're all entitled to our opinions of course.

I look for motive. I think it's entirely possible (yea, likely probable) that Dr. Bell didn't make as big a dent in the space exploration and etc. scene as he would have liked, and here is his chance to finally stand out.

He's often over the top and histrionic, IMO. Perhaps he truly does feel this way about the entire situation (chances are he does), but his style and approach are abrasive and condescending. And of course this gets him attention, etc., which is what he wants (and I'm helping this process along so will end this soon after saying --). Yes, the space program is currently rather pathetic (and the way to address that *isn't*, IMO, to attempt to snuff out chances to rectify the situation or by trying to kill the hopes and dreams of other people), yet he posts continual screeds as though this were the height of the Apollo era.

Overall, I find him "much ado about...not much."

He's an obvious provocateur (and I mean that in the most negative sense of the word).

--Cindy

clark · 2004-12-23 08:53:24

Maybe what jerks the chain is not his opinions, but that his opinions may be right...

It's hard to accept that a deep seated conviction can be wrong.

BWhite · 2004-12-23 10:00:27

Maybe what jerks the chain is not his opinions, but that his opinions may be right...
It's hard to accept that a deep seated conviction can be wrong.

How dare you suggest that a few thousand [hundred] [dozen] wild-eyed space enthusiasts typing away on the interent cannot change eveything!

Traitor!

clark · 2004-12-23 10:29:16

How dare you suggest that a few thousand [hundred] [dozen] wild-eyed space enthusiasts typing away on the interent cannot change eveything!

It works both ways.

We rant in an open thread. He rants in a locked thread. Has he changed anything? Have we?

I can't say we have, but it's not about that... it's about enjoying the ride. :laugh:

Traitor!

A traitor is but a budding Patriot!

RobS · 2004-12-23 13:39:00

Oh, come on, GCN, he's really not much more pessimistic than you are!

And everyone is free to write editorials and guest columns for Space.com and Spacedaily.com.

It's a shame we can't all sit down and discuss this over tea/coffee/beer.

-- robS

GCNRevenger · 2004-12-23 13:49:15

Awww, I don't reguard myself as so much of a pessimist about spaceflight, more of a realist... I would love to see people on Mars, and I think it can be done unlike "even robots are unessesarry, build me a telescope!" Doc Bell.

It just seems like I'm a pessimist since I fundimentally don't agree with the faster/better/cheaper/NOW! doctern concerning manned spaceflight that gives rise to lots of bad ideas or support for bad ideas around here.

SpaceNut · 2004-12-23 14:07:14

I guess for me it is more of is there any middle ground between the options.

Sending a real formulated rant to those that will listen does influence some things thou it may only be just a little.

I find all the discussions very useful and can only hope those that are in power do visit such sites as this one.

flashgordon · 2004-12-25 12:58:54

Well, I'd like to say that I've e-mailed Parks and some other supposedly high ranking science person who has chosen to be anti-space/colonization; to say the least, they reply with either in Parks case, "Well, then you go"(implying all the radiation dangers), and in this other guys case with no reply at all.

Some here may have seen my pre-drafts that I said I sent to our illustrious President Bush Jr; that's basically what I sent them; if you need me to, I'll try to re-say some of that.

You tell me what these guys motives are! They can only point out things that legit engineers and scientists have found all kinds of ways of overcoming, or just not reply at all!

P.S.

I have never e-mailed Bell, and this article is the first I've ever read of his; who is he? I guess he tells us who he is . . . .

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