Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

Dayton3 · 2004-12-16 16:12:16

It was mentioned somewhere once that a serious leg or arm injury on Mars during the 500 day stay there might require amputation.

If such an amputation was required, the crew member would be able to do far less work during the remainder of the mission. Greatly increasing the burden on the remaining crew members.

Might it be worth it to design and include four artificial limbs for possible use by the crew during the mission?

Two arms/hands-one for above the elbow amputations and one for below.

Two legs-one for above the knee amputation and one for below.

They might not be as advanced as what could be fitted on Earth, the emphasis would be on making them as easy as possible to use and attached and adjustable for the different members of the crew.

If they enabled an injured crewman to do nothing but basic housekeeping, they might be worth it.

GCNRevenger · 2004-12-16 16:15:41

If somthing that serious were to happen, the astronaut would be lucky to survive at all. He/she would do without for the remaining year or so of the mission... We have to avoid this "kitchen sink" mantality or the mass of bits and odds and ends will kill the mission.

Grypd · 2004-12-16 18:56:45

If such an accident does occur on Mars it will likely prove to be either fatal or completely debilitating to the astronaut. We cannot use prosthetics to help such an astronaut prosthetics apart from the most crude versions require incredibly detailed adjustments to be able to work and be worn with a reasonable level of comfort. Not to mention such an injury so far from home would require endless hours of physiopherapy and aiding of the astronaut to be able to even to function.

One rather nasty but likely possibility is that Martian astronauts will find themselves at risk of frostbite. And this may result in loss of minor appendages ie fingers toes.

Another more dangerous possibility is damage to eyesight due to the effects of super dry martian fines and the risk of having blind astronauts,

Frankly we have to be aware of the risks of being so far from possible intervention and we have to design the mission scenario carefully and to do the research that ensure maximum survivability for amount of useful return. But sending prosthetics is a no go. We cant fit them and we certainly do not want to spare the mass. Id rather send a lot more tubs of petroleoum jelly. Something that will be a godsend to the first Martian astronauts.

Palomar · 2004-12-16 20:04:23

*There's also the issue of rehabilitation and training with the prosthesis, which process is often lengthy and arduous. Amputation weakens surrounding muscles and tissues, which of course are damaged in the process (especially so if the amputation results from sheer trauma). There is also nerve damage, etc. If a lot of blood is lost that's another major factor of course. Dehydration can factor in as well (particularly as regards traumatic amputation).

Also, I'm not entirely knowledgeable about prostheses, but they are made to fit after the fact.

Of course, it's definitely good to think and plan ahead. :up: It may not be possible, however, to cover all one's bases entirely (unfortunately).

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2004-12-16 20:56:54

Yes right again they are customized for the user since depending on how the amputation plus where on the body it changes the lengths of any type arm or leg.

GraemeSkinner · 2004-12-17 13:35:29

An incident on the surface of Mars that results in loss of limb would likely be a major incident. In such a major incident the pressure suit if they were on EVA would be seriously damaged so loss of limb would be the least of their worries. If the injury was during work inside a rover or habitat unit they may survive if they have a good doctor/surgeon with them but as for fitting a prosthetic I'd think it doubtful, save their life for a quick jaunt home yes, but anything else would be difficult to achieve.

Graeme

Mad Grad Student · 2004-12-17 16:01:21

If a lot of blood is lost that's another major factor of course.

There's a good number of injuries that could occur on an alien planet that would result in heavy blood loss. Perhaps the crew should be selected so that they are all of similar blood types, so that way one could "donate" blood to another and they wouldn't have to haul lots of heavy (and perishable) blood with them. Has this ever been brought up before?

GCNRevenger · 2004-12-17 16:31:42

This might be a situation where their medical suite should include a few units of synthetic blood, which is now starting to enter use with the military and limited hospital use. As far as oxygen carriage, its even better then natural.

Palomar · 2004-12-18 13:26:14

If a lot of blood is lost that's another major factor of course.
There's a good number of injuries that could occur on an alien planet that would result in heavy blood loss. Perhaps the crew should be selected so that they are all of similar blood types, so that way one could "donate" blood to another and they wouldn't have to haul lots of heavy (and perishable) blood with them. Has this ever been brought up before?

*I think we've touched on the issue once or twice in the past.

As for having a crew composed of folks with compatible blood types for transfusion purposes: I doubt it'd be feasible. The chances of them all having the appropriate training and credentials, etc., and inter-transfusable blood types...seems highly unlikely.

Blood can be frozen. Have everyone donate a couple of units of blood as close to launch as possible (but with draw times spaced healthily apart; generally only 1 unit of blood drawn per month is adviseable). But what would be the energy cost of maintaining a little freezer with blood stored in it? http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/standard … al_news/]I found this on the 'net. Might provide some additional ideas.

As for synthetic blood, I'm completely unfamiliar with how well it works, its "shelf life" and etc.

I think having one's own blood in frozen storage and compatible synthetic blood reserves would be wise.

Oh...and can't forget Rh-negative factor in certain folks' blood. I'm A negative.

And going back to the amputation scenario: Gangrene is another major worry.

Yep, those Marsonauts are going to be mighty brave people.

--Cindy

Dayton3 · 2004-12-18 14:51:05

I think that once the crew reached Mars, having each donate a pint every two months or so would be practical and advisable.

Lets be honest though. I don't care if the crew has four or six, does anyone think that a surgical procedure severe enough to need a transfusion would be practical?

I can see a Mars crew performing an appendectomy. After all, the medical technicians aboard U.S. Navy submarines are theoretically capable of performing one if the sub can't return to surface for tactical reasons They might be able to deal with kidney stones and other painfull but handleable medical situations.

But I can't see them doing a transfusion.

I reason I mentioned artificial limbs is that even aboard Horatio Nelsons Royal Navy ships of the early 19th century amputations were done and crude "hooks" and "pegs" were fitted in place of arms and legs.

GCNRevenger · 2004-12-18 23:23:52

Synthetic blood is essentially a reality now, it is finding limited hospital and battlefield use, and work well enough to keep a wounded astronaut alive. Plus, being a synthetic it doesn't have a "type," it will work with any blood type.

If human blood will survive freezing, so would synthetic... As for signifigant infections, obviously there will be high potency antibiotics on board.

Austin Stanley · 2004-12-19 00:11:14

A blood transfusion isn't that trick, certianly much less so than any major surgery (which might require a transfusion in the firstplace), just start an IV and hook up the blood bag and you are good to go. Heck, medics gave plasma transfusion in the field during WWII.

GraemeSkinner · 2004-12-19 04:22:46

I agree, a blood transfusion is fairly straight forward when you compare it to removing a limb - I think they first started blood transfusions in the 1600's (but thats of the top of my head I can't remember where I read it ) - I can remember watching a programme on synthetic blood, I don't think the storage was as difficult as natural. They also do synthetic skin patches now, which may be of use.

Graeme

Dayton3 · 2004-12-19 14:04:15

What I'm saying is that any bodily trauma bad enough to justify transfusion would probably not be survivable on Mars anyway.

With the exception of amputations of course.

After all, Lord Nelson had his injured arm amputated in a tiny rowboat rocking violently back and forth.

GraemeSkinner · 2004-12-19 14:13:09

What I'm saying is that any bodily trauma bad enough to justify transfusion would probably not be survivable on Mars anyway.
With the exception of amputations of course.
After all, Lord Nelson had his injured arm amputated in a tiny rowboat rocking violently back and forth.

A serious enough cut could require transfusion.

Graeme

Grypd · 2004-12-19 14:19:38

What I'm saying is that any bodily trauma bad enough to justify transfusion would probably not be survivable on Mars anyway.
With the exception of amputations of course.
After all, Lord Nelson had his injured arm amputated in a tiny rowboat rocking violently back and forth.

But the Naval doctors had the ability to amputate, seal and sow the wound in the matter of a minute or so. In fact when it comes down to amputations the butchers on those ships where a lot lot faster than the doctors we have. Then again they had the practice, most wounds resulted in amputations.

But it still does not get rid of the problem that any severe injury caused to a crewmember would likely result in not one crew member being permanently unavailable but two. Someone has to look after the sick person.

GraemeSkinner · 2004-12-19 22:37:19

But it still does not get rid of the problem that any severe injury caused to a crewmember would likely result in not one crew member being permanently unavailable but two. Someone has to look after the sick person.

So whats the answer, give the injured crewmember a tablet, pat them on the shoulder muttering something about it being for the good of the mission and leaving them too it. The human body has an amazing resiliance, the people going to Mars will be super fit, so for all but the most extreme injuries I don't see a problem. And lets face it, if the injury is that extreme other crewmembers may have been involved too and we'd be looking at a total loss.

We've just got to hope that nothing happens, and if it does, its not to the person that can treat major injuries 'cos that would be a problem, the only crewmember who can safely amputate a limb lying with their arm in tatters, do you quickly prime the other crew members in what to do?

Graeme

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-08-09 14:48:49

Simple Prosthetics might be 3-D printed on Mars, the more high tech Cyborg parts exported from Earth to Mars.

Study Buddy (Challenger): Professor and surgeon use cutting-edge technology to make ‘robotic’ prosthetics for amputees
https://www.scmp.com/yp/learn/learning- … fessor-and

Blood, Flesh and....3D printing?
https://www.tech.gov.sg/media/technews/ … d-printing

The Wearable Cyberpunk Future on the Horizon
https://www.hackster.io/news/the-wearab … 9527e6be06
To celebrate Wearables Month here at Hackster, we rounded up some of the most interesting wearable research from the past few years.

Breakthroughs in Prosthetic Technology Promise Better Living Through Design
https://redshift.autodesk.com/articles/ … technology

Robotic prosthesis saved the talent of this cyborg drummer
https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/robotic-pro … 42744.html

Can Prosthetics Outperform Real Limbs?
https://prosthetic1.com/blog/can-prosth … eal-limbs/

Remote Surgical Robot Could Join Astronauts on Future Mars Missions
https://www.cnet.com/science/space/remo … -missions/
No matter how mentally and physically prepared they are, future astronauts bound for deep space can't escape their mortal restrictions. At some point during their long and isolated journeys, these pioneers might need medical care. But that's tough. In space, there are no hospitals.

MIRA -- will board the International Space Station for zero-gravity testing in 2024.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-23 11:00:06

Scientists Are One Step Close to Creating a Luke Skywalker-Like Prosthetic

https://3dprinting.com/news/scientists- … rosthetic/

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2004-12-16 16:12:16

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#2 2004-12-16 16:15:41

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#3 2004-12-16 18:56:45

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#4 2004-12-16 20:04:23

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#5 2004-12-16 20:56:54

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#6 2004-12-17 13:35:29

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#7 2004-12-17 16:01:21

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#8 2004-12-17 16:31:42

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#9 2004-12-18 13:26:14

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#10 2004-12-18 14:51:05

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#11 2004-12-18 23:23:52

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#12 2004-12-19 00:11:14

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#13 2004-12-19 04:22:46

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#14 2004-12-19 14:04:15

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#15 2004-12-19 14:13:09

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#16 2004-12-19 14:19:38

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#17 2004-12-19 22:37:19

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#18 2022-08-09 14:48:49

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

#19 2022-09-23 11:00:06

Re: Prosthetic Limbs For A Manned Mars Mission - Carry Four

Board footer