new propulsion 90-day mars trip

ERRORIST · 2004-12-07 10:54:11

I agree the solar wind is trapped at the poles of Earth. I would imagine the same thing happens in Dr. Winglees Bi polar spacecraft. It should be very similar as to what happens on Earth. Would it be feasable to collect the solar wind particles that get trapped and reuse them for propulsion???

John Creighton · 2004-12-07 14:03:40

Would it be feasable to collect the solar wind particles that get trapped and reuse them for propulsion???

You will increase your thrust more by creating a bigger magnetic field then somehow trying to collect all the solar wind and reuse it as rocket fuel. The only thing I can envision is a magnetic field that oscillates in size thus the oscillating magnetic filed would have a greater velocity to the solar wind then just the field by its self. However the oscillating magnetic field will create waves in all direction. The Doppler effect will act like a friction force (Hence the 3rd law of thermodynamics). I also think you will loose more energy with an oscillating magnetic field because you would need supper conducting capacitors (with no leakage current) to set up the oscillation. These circuit elements do not exist.

showtime17 · 2004-12-09 23:19:24

i've got to be more attentive this topic had been posted before. somehow i overlooked it...

GCNRevenger · 2004-12-09 23:24:10

This might sound silly but
Don't a few asteroids orbit generally between earth and mars?
Catching a ride on one each way is very cheap.
Must be a few of the near earth asteroids that would take us most of the way for free.
If non exist then a little tweaking of a small asteroid would be a permanent earth mars ship.

No.

In order to land on the asteroid and "hitch a ride," you will have to match orbit with it. If you do that, you will travel the same path as the asteroid would without expending another drop of fuel. Why bother with the asteroid?

chat · 2004-12-10 02:47:25

GCNRevenger,

Depends if you get on the asteroid if its coming toward you or departing.

Matching an asteroids speed can be done with a slingshot effect between earth and moon for very little fuel, and no humans need be on the ship until the asteroid landing time is near.

I didn't say it would be easy, just cheap.

Another idea might be to simply place a huge laser, microwave or magnetic pulse on the asteroid that orbits between earth/mars.
Then anytime you like follow the asteroid using its power.
No long focal beams needed for that.
It will be a permanent power plant to take you to the moon or mars or the outer solar system and back.

John Creighton · 2004-12-10 15:24:44

No.
In order to land on the asteroid and "hitch a ride," you will have to match orbit with it. If you do that, you will travel the same path as the asteroid would without expending another drop of fuel. Why bother with the asteroid?

To get fuel so you don't need as big a heat shield for areobreaking, to get fuel for a more accurate landing or because there is a nice comfortable hotel on the asteroid with lots of room and life support. What ever you have on the asteroid is stuff you don't have to get up to injection speed. This means the vehicle that catches up to the asteroid can be less roomie and since the crew will only need to spend a week in it. Has anyone ever spent a week in a car? How many people were in it. Granted you probably stopped at gas stations to stretch you legs but there must be a little bit of a comparison. Oh as an added plus you get to explore the asteroid and mars. Two missions in one.

GraemeSkinner · 2004-12-10 22:33:43

To hitch a ride with an asteroid, or even use it as a fuel stop requires the asteroid to be in the perfect position for the mission. What's the chances of an asteroid being in the perfect orbit so you don't have to use too much fuel getting to it in the first place, or that the asteroid is in the perfect position for a refuel stop (forgetting the time needed once there to extract the materials for fuelling up again), the chances are slim I'd say.

As to positioning a power source on the asteroid, you'd still need to be able to get near to it to use it, so why not just use the fuel used getting to the asteroid to get between Earth and Mars instead?

There's a lot to be said for trying to develop new ways of moving between planets, but they should not require huge amounts of fuel just to get to the power source.

Graeme

John Creighton · 2004-12-11 09:21:51

From post 22 of:
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic … 541]Carbon and Asteroid Prospectors

Quote (BWhite @ Nov. 27 2004, 00:31)
More:
http://www.geocities.com/zlipanov/selec … ...26.html
Look at that map! Land on 1998 KY26 and hop off closer to Mars!
Cool!
There is a problem though: Not only does the asteroid have to be at the right place, it must at the right place at the right time.
There are cycler orbits that regularly fly both Earth and Mars. Buzz Aldrin has designed one that passes by both Earth and Mars each synodic period (about 2 & 1/7 years). The "castle" would be be well stocked with radiation shielding, food, air (maybe even self sustaining closed ecology life support systems). Then when the castle is in the neighborhood of either Earth or Mars a much less massive "taxi" can be sent to the planet (or from the planet to the castle). However Aldrin cyclers demand a lot of delta vee from their taxis since it passes Mars with a relative velocity of about 12 km a second.
Then there are two types of cyclers that pass by the planets somewhat less frequently but still regularly. Niehoff VISIT 3 passes by the earth every 3 years and Mars every 7.5 years. Niehoff VISIT 1 earth every 5 years and Mars 3.75 years.
I talk about nudging asteroids into Niehoff cycler orbits on this page:
http://www.clowder.net/hop/railroad/sch … sched.html

Also See:
http://szyzyg.arm.ac.uk/~spm/neo_map.html]NEO Map
http://szyzyg.arm.ac.uk/~spm/neostorm.avi]Movie showing 400 days of NEO movement
http://szyzyg.arm.ac.uk/~spm/neo_display.c]C program used to Plot the asteroids for the Movie
Just look at how many there are.

I might look at the C program and someday try to make a movie of all the asteroids that are within the delta V it takes to get from earth to mars, half the delta V, a quarter the delta V and so on. I would also like to show different asteroids of different albeido and size with different colors. The darker one being more likely to be C type asteroids should be more valuable.

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#26 2004-12-07 10:54:11

Re: new propulsion 90-day mars trip

#27 2004-12-07 14:03:40

Re: new propulsion 90-day mars trip

#28 2004-12-09 23:19:24

Re: new propulsion 90-day mars trip

#29 2004-12-09 23:24:10

Re: new propulsion 90-day mars trip

#30 2004-12-10 02:47:25

Re: new propulsion 90-day mars trip

#31 2004-12-10 15:24:44

Re: new propulsion 90-day mars trip

#32 2004-12-10 22:33:43

Re: new propulsion 90-day mars trip

#33 2004-12-11 09:21:51

Re: new propulsion 90-day mars trip

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