Use of Robotics for Moon or Mars - Freind or Foe to manned missions

SpaceNut · 2004-12-01 10:19:20

We have been discussing the importance of using them in the building process or at least in the initial stages for preparing the way, the mining of and processing of insitu materials for a multitude of reasons but some would argue then why send Man if the robots can do all that. Why should we burden ourselves with the cost.

Robots - Our Helpers In Space

A big advantage of space robots is that they need neither food nor drink and can support very inhospitable conditions. More important still, although expensive to design and produce, their loss is always preferable to that of an astronaut. They can support or replace people to carry out tasks that are too dangerous, too difficult, repetitive, time consuming or even impossible for astronauts. They can also be faster and more precise than people.

Lunar Robotic Village, Moon Base Gains International Support

As Moon exploration looms larger among the growing community of scientists and engineers from Europe, India, China, Japan, and the United States, a robotic lunar village is gaining support, leading to a permanent human presence on the Moon by 2024.

Gee what ever happened to man being on the moon around 2014...
But of course that also means revisiting the 1979 moon treaty.

Palomar · 2004-12-01 10:46:01

http://www.space.com/news/international … html]Lunar Robotic Village, Moon Base Gains International Support
As Moon exploration looms larger among the growing community of scientists and engineers from Europe, India, China, Japan, and the United States, a robotic lunar village is gaining support, leading to a permanent human presence on the Moon by 2024.
Gee what ever happened to man being on the moon around 2014...
But of course that also means revisiting the 1979 moon treaty.

*Regarding the 2nd article...yes, makes me sick (saw it earlier today at the web site) as I'm not interested in colonizing the Moon to begin with. Am simply wanting to get on with HUMANS to Mars. Let the frickin' robots have the Moon. :laugh:

But now nearly every article pertaining to human expansion into space has the Moon and Mars mentioned hyphenated, as though joined at the hip. :down:

But we have other distractions as well to getting to Mars; and plenty of threads established for those topics already, so will leave it at this.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2004-12-01 11:29:11

I myself feel that robots alone do little for man when it comes to exploration in a reasonable time frame. Yes they can do great things but only after a very long design process and at much expense plus testing out of functionality.
Yes a robot farm of droids at the beckon call of those astronauts just might be the only way to lower cost but must we wait until they have done what we want done or can we send them in as needed while man is there.

Palomar · 2004-12-01 11:40:04

I myself feel that robots alone do little for man when it comes to exploration in a reasonable time frame. Yes they can do great things but only after a very long design process and at much expense plus testing out of functionality.

*Well, I think robots definitely have their place: Helpers. Substitutes in some conditions...but not all conditions.

I really wonder at the absurdity of this statement in particular:

They can also be faster and more precise than people.

Where are these sorts of robots? In the air -- well, sure. On land? The MERs are doing a beyond-excellent job and like most folks I'm certainly enjoying the data we're receiving back from them. But they are -- physically -- slower than molasses in January. :-\

To suggest robots can out-perform, out-pace humans overall is ludicrous. Dexterity is just one example.

--Cindy

GCNRevenger · 2004-12-01 12:12:10

Definatly Cindy...

"They can also be faster and more precise than people."

Whoever wrote this obviously has robot arm welders in car factories in mind, and not real life robots on the ground on other planets with a multi-second/multi-minute time delay.

Humans are obviously capable of much much more then robots.

Grypd · 2004-12-01 17:31:49

"They can also be faster and more precise than people."

The reason that the Mars rovers are so slow is that the distance that these Teleprescence rovers have such a communication delay that it would easily miss important details. It could result in the rovers being damaged.

The USSR also placed two rovers on an extraterrestial body. These two the Lunkohods where able to travel a lot faster as the distance between the Moon and Earth allowed quicker coomunication and greater distances where accomplished.

Now it has never been claimed on this forum or most reasonable ones that Telerobotic Robots would be a hundred percent better than people. Only in certain points will they prove to be more effective. But it is with our current technical and financial constraints it would prove that the robots are the answer to pioneer the way for Man. I personally would prefer people to be able to be there to do the jobs, but this is not going to happen and realism states we get something to do it and Telerobotics will do it. And they will do it at a lot more reduced cost and reduced constraints.

SpaceNut · 2004-12-02 07:15:28

Also for mars a reliable network of satellites would also be needed to maintain constant communications with them as well.

Josh Cryer · 2004-12-04 02:21:59

Indeed, Gryped hits on the main point, telecommuniation times. We don't even need sophisticated AI (I assure you it won't come for decades), we need robots that can be controlled by humans with only little automation facilities (like, say, for example, knowing how to put a screw in without a lot of intricate controlling on the ground). Colonizing Mars would require extensive use of machinery, robots included. However, and this is the biggest selling point, robots would be more necessary to do stuff on the moon, simply due to resource considerations. Robots need electricity to live, humans need food, it's easier to grow food on Mars than it would be the moon, thus it's easier for humans to survive on Mars than on the moon. Another point is that it requires sifting through large areas of lunar regolith to get at resources, whereas on Mars that's not an issue (one bucket of regolith is half ice water in many circumstancs, something that isn't even possible on earth).

Since the moon is closer to the earth, it would be a lot easier to set up remotely controlled robot colonies. Indeed, this could've been done 30 years ago, using tech from back then. Why it hasn't been done by now surprises me, really, as the wealth from such a growing colony would be astronomical.

You don't built a moon base with humans. You don't built a Mars base with robots.

Grypd · 2004-12-04 14:01:17

There is one point that has to be mentioned is that for robots radiation is nothing like as severe a problem as it is for Humans. Whoever builds the bases we need on the Moon and Mars will be exposed to a degree of radiation that inhibits a long term approach to anything. This is not a problem for robots and it is that advantage that we should utilise. What we learn from the Moon we should bring to Mars. Why should our astronauts when they get to Mars be subject to that much background radiation and industrial hazard to build a base. Not when we have so much more important things for our astronauts to do on Mars.

Robots can and will be our backup and helpers they will make what we need(even when quided from Earth) and will allow us to really plan for a long term stay wherever we so want to.

Euler · 2004-12-04 14:57:36

Having humans on Mars controlling robots gets you the worst of both worlds. You need to spend a lot of resources to keep the humans alive and the robots working, and the robots still will not be as dexterous or versatile as the humans themselves.

On ISS, when something needs to be fixed or installed, they do not send a robot to go do it; they send out an astronaut. The surface of Mars is much more hospitable to humans than LEO, though it is arguably less hospitable to robots. Humans will end up doing most of the work, not robots.

John Creighton · 2004-12-04 15:23:39

Having humans on Mars controlling robots gets you the worst of both worlds.

Depends on the task and how near the humans are.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-05-05 03:44:34

The manned vs unmanned thing is perhaps an unhelpful mindset when both can support each other.

In the 70s the Soviets lost the Moon Race but Lunokhod traveled an incredible distance, beating the feats of the manned Apollo Lunar Roving Vehicle or "buggy"...not really noticed at the time since the Russians were the Losers.
Sojourner shows it can be done on Mars, it moved 330 feet or 100.58 meters, it was a relatively small vehicle that never ventured very far from its original rocky site on Mars.
At this time Robots looked clunky like they could not do much, even in Japan ASIMO a humanoid robot created by Honda in 2000 looked very limited, there was little on 3-d printers or AI in the news, there were no self driving taxi inside cities.
On the topics of 'Foe'.
There are also horrific Terminator style Dystopia scenes on our tv from Drone Warfare, mass deaths of the Ukraine person and Russian person.
Venezuela?
https://www.voanews.com/a/iran-s-appare … 76585.html
Israeli Defense Minister Benny Gantz said in 2022 that his government determined that "Iranian precision-guided missiles are being delivered" to Venezuela to be fitted into "advanced Iranian Mohajer" drones and similar models. As Gantz spoke, a screen showed an image of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro presenting a model of a drone on state TV.
The Drone it is trade and investment of war the United States, United Kingdom, Israel, China, South Korea, Iran, Iraq, Italy, France, India, Pakistan, Russia, Turkey, Ukraine and Poland are investing heavily on having Robots hunt and kill people for Militarization and Defense goals, it can be a boat or plane, on land or sea or in the air, there are no news items on Drones from North Korea or Belarus but it sound be expected now, they are closer to Russia and Iran and expected to have an Inventory by 2026. the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, UCAVs have been used extensively by the islamo Azerbaijani Army against the Armenians a people who follow Christianity but also minority belief like Atheists or Yezdi refuees from ISIS who follow Yazidism, Azerbaijanis can not build these weapons, some one is gun running terminator drones and selling or giving them weapons to kill. Even a low tech ragtag terror group Hamas has got its hands on Drones and launched an invasion of Israel using commercial sold drones, Israel has responded turning much of Gaza into dust and rubble. Today the Drones commanded by human are causing utter destruction and death in war, could this tech and energy not be put to better use.
This is an old thread dating back to 2004, it may have been difficult for people to see where it would go, people still used physical paper maps in their cars, people moved toy gadgets in line of site, RC model toy car, a small mini version of a Boat a group of hobby people and Radio-controlled aircraft, drones slowly made news a pervert sent a woman into a backyard spying on a woman sunbathing, criminal spied on a farmer they wanted to steal from or intrusion on a base, a drone put an aircraft in danger, it still would rarely make news. Then NASA JPL new twin MERs explore, 'Opportunity' broke the previous record clocked the longest distance ever driven by a rover outside of Earth 28.1 miles or 45.2 km

India has Rovers on the Moon, China has Rovers and now we fly, there are helicopters which operated on Mars and going to Titan

an older topic worth bumping

Tesla may start selling its Optimus humanoid robot next year, says Elon Musk
https://electrek.co/2024/04/23/tesla-ma … elon-musk/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-05-05 04:54:50)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-05-28 12:12:34

A robot will soon try to remove melted nuclear fuel from Japan's destroyed Fukushima reactor

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireS … -110609594

'Reverse Turing Test'

AI NPCs try to figure out who among them is the human
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MmIZLTMHUw

Colorado to deploy drones as first responders to 911 calls - "This really is the future of law enforcement"

https://www.techspot.com/news/103160-co … calls.html

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-05-28 12:30:25)

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#1 2004-12-01 10:19:20

Re: Use of Robotics for Moon or Mars - Freind or Foe to manned missions

#2 2004-12-01 10:46:01

Re: Use of Robotics for Moon or Mars - Freind or Foe to manned missions

#3 2004-12-01 11:29:11

Re: Use of Robotics for Moon or Mars - Freind or Foe to manned missions

#4 2004-12-01 11:40:04

Re: Use of Robotics for Moon or Mars - Freind or Foe to manned missions

#5 2004-12-01 12:12:10

Re: Use of Robotics for Moon or Mars - Freind or Foe to manned missions

#6 2004-12-01 17:31:49

Re: Use of Robotics for Moon or Mars - Freind or Foe to manned missions

#7 2004-12-02 07:15:28

Re: Use of Robotics for Moon or Mars - Freind or Foe to manned missions

#8 2004-12-04 02:21:59

Re: Use of Robotics for Moon or Mars - Freind or Foe to manned missions

#9 2004-12-04 14:01:17

Re: Use of Robotics for Moon or Mars - Freind or Foe to manned missions

#10 2004-12-04 14:57:36

Re: Use of Robotics for Moon or Mars - Freind or Foe to manned missions

#11 2004-12-04 15:23:39

Re: Use of Robotics for Moon or Mars - Freind or Foe to manned missions

#12 2024-05-05 03:44:34

Re: Use of Robotics for Moon or Mars - Freind or Foe to manned missions

#13 2024-05-28 12:12:34

Re: Use of Robotics for Moon or Mars - Freind or Foe to manned missions

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