Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

ERRORIST · 2004-11-17 17:40:58

if water is inside those craters? If there was water it should turn to steam? Would we be able to see the steam from Earth or from the space station or luner satellite?

Euler · 2004-11-17 18:25:39

No, you could not hit the places where there might be water using a laser based on Earth.

ERRORIST · 2004-11-17 18:30:11

Suppose it was at 110,000 feet?

GCNRevenger · 2004-11-17 18:36:11

Trouble is that the water is at the bottom of craters near the poles, and not on a good line of sight with the Earth.

No way you can get a 747 to fly higher then a U-2 spy plane

Nor would the laser reach that far. A point laser fired at the Moon from the Earth spreads out to several miles on the Moon. Even a if this were improved a great deal, a 1MW laser spread over such an area would not impart much heating.

Euler · 2004-11-17 18:40:54

The Moon is more than 200,000 miles away. Flying at 110,000 feet won't make much difference.

ERRORIST · 2004-11-17 18:53:02

How about from the Scram jet?

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/x4 … 41116.html

GCNRevenger · 2004-11-17 19:08:12

The Moon is more than 200,000 miles away. Flying at 110,000 feet won't make much difference.

Doesn't matter what altitude you are at Errorist, you can't focus the beam that accuratly on a spot 500,000km away.

ERRORIST · 2004-11-17 19:11:23

From a satellite orbiting the Moon?

Euler · 2004-11-17 19:30:22

If the satellite is in a polar orbit it could work, though using a laser might not be the most efficient method.

ERRORIST · 2004-11-17 19:38:00

It may allow for many tests. Sort of like drilling for oil except in this case for water.

SpaceNut · 2004-11-17 21:17:28

The problem with theories is that there is little or no return on investment unless a profit for the research can be turned from having done this experiment.

ERRORIST · 2004-11-17 22:13:16

Drilling for oil wells are experiments and somtimes they pay off.

GCNRevenger · 2004-11-18 06:10:44

Okay, lets see here...

Option 1: Build a giant laser several times bigger then any portable laser ever built, easily weighing in the 100's of tons when including cooling systems, in order to try and cook off a little bit of Lunar ice in the hope that you might be able to detect that tiny puff of steam with a spectrometer against an unreflective background without transmitted sunlight, which is a bit like trying to see the color of smoke at the bottom of a well. Cost easily exceeding ten billion dollars with launch vehicle(s).

Option 2: Build a Luna-rated knockoff of the MERs, this time equipped with a drill and a small sample oven with a mass or infrared spectrometer, and launch it on a Delta-IV medium for only a hundreds of millions.

ERRORIST · 2004-11-18 06:59:10

We would be able to see if it is steam with cameras these days. The thing doesn't have to as powerfull as the ABL nor as large. If we can count Elephants from 230 miles in space then we should be able to see a puff of steam. What other elements would it be able to detect?

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/eo-04zzz … zzzzu.html

GCNRevenger · 2004-11-18 07:57:03

Actually no Errorist, that isn't true. Detecting the characteristic absortion of water with the extremely low reflected energy off the Moon will be bascially impossible because of how small, thin, and transient the cloud of steam will be. Observing a physical opaque object of a signifigantly different color from 200mi away isn't all that hard, but to detect the slight shift in "color" due to a near nonexsistantly diffuse cloud - which is gone in seconds and leaves no time for long camera exposures - is bascially impossible. You couldn't see an elephant from 200mi away if it were the same color as the ground and didn't cast a shadow.

And no, you can't use a laser much smaller then tens of megawatts; you need enough thermal energy to heat the soil to ten or twenty centimeters deep to a pretty high temperature in order to make everything volitile (water, ammonia, etc) come to the surface. A chemical laser like this is possible, but it wouldn't fit on a Saturn-V rocket nor cost less then billion upon billion of dollars.

Or we can spend half a billion and send a modded MER with an old Viking spectrometer kit.

ERRORIST · 2004-11-18 08:06:00

How about from a 100 or 50 miles away? Hey if it can melt aluminum it should be able to boil off ice on the surface. There could be snow or ice crystals on the surface in small amounts.

I am sure a much smaller version with just as much power could be made.

Grypd · 2004-11-18 08:11:02

The abL fits inside a converted passenger jet as it needs all that room to be able to power itself and keep cool. Why try to create a device that would have half the world screaming the Americans have created a satelite killer weapon when you can drive a rover for a lot less cost and actually see what is in those craters

ERRORIST · 2004-11-18 08:18:02

The military uses it to protect us from terrorist nations. We can also use it to discover things on the moon.It can serve as a dual purpose.

SpaceNut · 2004-11-18 10:06:14

Well here is an experiment , send a few 1000 gallons of water in a probe container to the moons target area and crash it into it at that spot to observe the response. Send a second probe unit to view the results from close up with what ever sensors that are needed.
Now that would be doing scienetific research.

C M Edwards · 2006-10-19 07:15:04

Oh my.

Not only was Errorist correct in principle, but it's possible there may be no water ice on the moon after all.

What's next? :?

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#1 2004-11-17 17:40:58

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#2 2004-11-17 18:25:39

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#3 2004-11-17 18:30:11

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#4 2004-11-17 18:36:11

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#5 2004-11-17 18:40:54

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#6 2004-11-17 18:53:02

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#7 2004-11-17 19:08:12

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#8 2004-11-17 19:11:23

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#9 2004-11-17 19:30:22

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#10 2004-11-17 19:38:00

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#11 2004-11-17 21:17:28

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#12 2004-11-17 22:13:16

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#13 2004-11-18 06:10:44

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#14 2004-11-18 06:59:10

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#15 2004-11-18 07:57:03

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#16 2004-11-18 08:06:00

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#17 2004-11-18 08:11:02

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#18 2004-11-18 08:18:02

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#19 2004-11-18 10:06:14

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

#20 2006-10-19 07:15:04

Re: Could the ABL be pointed at the Moon to see

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