ISS Woes & To-Mars

Palomar · 2004-11-15 08:26:05

*This just in from space.com's "Astronotes":

November 15
Dent or Trick of Light? A Space Station Mystery Solved
NASA engineers scrutinizing hours of video from the International Space Station (ISS) have determined than an apparent dent in the orbital outpost was not the result of a micrometeorite strike.
After a week of investigation, engineers at NASA's Johnson Space Center (JSC) believe a mystery dent in a panel attached to the space station's U.S.-built Destiny module was most likely caused by changes in temperature as the ISS orbited the Earth.
The investigation found that the indentation, which appeared as a flat spot on a curved panel, was no trick of light, nor did it affect the panel's function as a shield to protect the module against micrometeorite strikes and impacts from space debris. NASA engineers used eight hours of video data taken by a camera mounted on the station's robot arm.
ISS Expedition 10 commander Leroy Chiao set up the arm's video vantage point during an in-flight robot arm exercise on Nov. 8.
"They first saw it while looking in images from STS-113 in November 2002, when they saw what may be a shadow or a dent," NASA spokeswoman Kylie Clem, of the agency's Johnson Space Center, said of the dent. STS-113 was the last space shuttle to visit the space station.
Such indentations, it turns out, are not unprecedented on the ISS. Debris shields on the station's Unity module have also exhibited similar behavior, and engineers believe that the forward and aft triangle regions of the debris shields are susceptible to the temperature dimpling, NASA officials said.
-- Tariq Malik

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2004-11-15 09:16:41

Saw this last week some time ago on another web site. It is in regards to finding what is making all the noise that they have been hearing for quite some time now and of the recent inspection in that area.

SpaceNut · 2004-11-15 11:23:38

US-India space cooperation: the next level though this is an article from the carry over of the lunar probe topic it does contain info on there respply efforts for use as a cheaper unit than the Europeans ATV. A low-cost Earth-to-Moon supply carrier might be a valuable business niche for the future. It would also give India a strong claim for participation in the Vision for Space Exploration. Great stuff for how India has come a long way to be a solid provider in the space business.

India would earn its equity in the ISS by developing and building an automated logistics spacecraft, akin to Russia’s Progress or Europe’s Automated Transfer Vehicle (ATV). The Geostationary Launch Vehicle (GSLV) that ISRO has successfully used three times can put at least two or three tons into low Earth orbit (LEO). From its launch site on the Bay of Bengal, it should be able to reach the ISS with a reasonable load of fuel, water, or other supplies. This India Space Logistics Vehicle (ISLV) could be designed by India’s own space industry, with minimal help from the US and Russia.
Europe’s ATV is the Rolls Royce of ISS resupply; the only thing more costly is the shuttle. Not only is it exceptionally costly compared to Russia’s Progress, but its complex ground control system makes it the perfect anti-model. The ATV is probably designed to give Europe’s space industry a technological starting point for a future manned capsule. That’s fine, as an industrial development policy, but it insures that the ATV is never going to be a truly cost effective delivery van.

BWhite · 2004-11-15 15:58:47

Ah the Russians... trying to get around the punishment for their assistance in the Iranian nuclear weapons program.
Also hanging over our heads that the ISS isn't worth diddly without a larger crew, so we'd have to buy more Soyuz or seats on Klipper until CEV is ready.

Try a carrot rather than a stick and perhaps we will get better Iranian cooperation. NASA buys 4 Klipers for $5 billion IF AND ONLY IF Putin's relationship with Iran heads the way we desire.

Kill two birds with one stone.

GCNRevenger · 2004-11-15 17:03:46

$5 Billion for a one time "purchase," minus a billion for Klipper development, is chump change compared to Iranian oil and nuclear contracts over the long haul. It isn't realistic to offer a carrot big enough... time for the stick.

BWhite · 2004-11-15 17:51:53

$5 Billion for a one time "purchase," minus a billion for Klipper development, is chump change compared to Iranian oil and nuclear contracts over the long haul. It isn't realistic to offer a carrot big enough... time for the stick.

Using a ban on Soyuz purchases to pressure Putin on Iran hurts us as much or more as it does the Russians. After all, most of the money floating up there at ISS is American. The best way to punish Russia with ISS would be to withdraw from participation in ISS. Cancel the puppy

Whack Iran? Sure, okay. An Iranian nuke scares the heck out of me. Let's get it over with and then start buying Soyuz again.

= = =

Even the Brits favor http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3761998]carrots, for now.

GCNRevenger · 2004-11-15 18:16:05

Europe has been known to favor stupid for a while now. See also: Chamberlain, Nevil. Zapatero, Jose. Chirac, Jaques.

Scolding Russia over the Iran issue is more of a principle issue then an actual fiscal penalty, that if the US caved and bought Russian space hardware it would illustrate that we aren't that pained over the Iran issue, which would clearly be a mistake.

Now that Condi is the head of the State dept., maybe we can get around to a tactical nuclear + all-out conventional air assault on Iranian military and isolated nuclear sites. Put a Paveway-III down on the roof of the Guardian Council chaimbers while we're are it.

ERRORIST · 2004-11-15 18:20:34

The airborne laser could boost its orbit

GCNRevenger · 2004-11-15 18:29:37

No it couldn't. The laser doesn't have a big enough power supply, plus the 747 can't fly fast enough to keep the beam on target for long even if it could. Oh and the ISS is extremely heavy (200MT) and doesn't have the huge reflector it would need. Or thermal control equipment for it.

Euler · 2004-11-15 18:33:52

Now that Condi is the head of the State dept., maybe we can get around to a tactical nuclear + all-out conventional air assault on Iranian military and isolated nuclear sites. Put a Paveway-III down on the roof of the Guardian Council chaimbers while we're are it.

Do we really want to start another war over WMDs that might not exist, but using nukes this time? If we did something that foolish, we would loose the few allies that we still have.

ERRORIST · 2004-11-15 18:33:59

if it had a copper plate on the iss the explosive force of the impacting beam would vaporize the copper and give an extra boost

GCNRevenger · 2004-11-15 18:38:45

Hey, the only reason we're bickering with the Iranians is because they got caught. And if its a choice between ticking off or alienating our "allies" or eliminating one of the only two (and a half, if you include Pakistan) possible sources of nuclear terrorism, which happens to be a brutal "theocracy" run by madmen who hate us (see: chanting in the Iranian parliment chaimbers, "Death to America!!") and support worldwide conventional terrorism...

I'm sure our allies would understand. Or else, they wern't really allies to begin with.

GCNRevenger · 2004-11-15 18:40:41

Uh, dude, copper plate? It would be VASTLY EXTREMELY heavy. And being a great conductor of heat with fairly high atomic weight, would be lousy reaction mass.

ERRORIST · 2004-11-15 18:50:29

aluminum, magnesium?

GCNRevenger · 2004-11-15 18:57:18

No no, none of these. It isn't practical to push ISS by light beam reflection.

ERRORIST · 2004-11-15 18:58:36

which element then?

Euler · 2004-11-15 19:03:05

Hey, the only reason we're bickering with the Iranians is because they got caught.

The Iranians did not "get caught." They never tried to hide the fact that they were working on nuclear power plants.

And if its a choice between ticking off or alienating our "allies" or eliminating one of the only two (and a half, if you include Pakistan) possible sources of nuclear terrorism, which happens to be a brutal "theocracy" run by madmen who hate us (see: chanting in the Iranian parliment chaimbers, "Death to America!!") and support worldwide conventional terrorism...
I'm sure our allies would understand. Or else, they wern't really allies to begin with.

In that case, I don’t think we have any "real" allies now. Lets just hope we don't make too many actual enemies.

SpaceNut · 2004-11-16 08:25:17

RUSSIA'S SPACE AGENCY AND NASA LAUNCH TALKS ON SIZE OF 2005 ISS SHARES and the list of reciprocal services under the ISS plans for 2005 though to the future.

ROSCOSMOS HEAD ON FUTURE OF ISS of which the Russian segment of the International Space Station (ISS) should be completed in seven years. This article also talks of further modules after the 2010 time frame for the shuttle discontinuation.

SpaceNut · 2004-11-16 09:22:59

A follow up to Cindy's earlier post of the astro notes dent.

The original photograph in this image was taken during the Space Shuttle Endeavour’s approach to the ISS for docking during the STS-113/11A assembly mission, on 25 November 2002. An indentation in a micrometeoroid debris panel on the exterior of the Destiny Laboratory module is indicated by an arrow in an enhanced section of the image provided by the Image Science and Analysis Group at the Johnson Space Center. Analysis of this image and additional video indicates that the indentation is not from a debris strike, but is consistent with flat spots seen on other areas that are likely the result of significant temperature changes. The protective shield’s function is not affected by the indentations.

BWhite · 2004-11-16 09:34:32

Hey, the only reason we're bickering with the Iranians is because they got caught.
The Iranians did not "get caught." They never tried to hide the fact that they were working on nuclear power plants.
And if its a choice between ticking off or alienating our "allies" or eliminating one of the only two (and a half, if you include Pakistan) possible sources of nuclear terrorism, which happens to be a brutal "theocracy" run by madmen who hate us (see: chanting in the Iranian parliment chaimbers, "Death to America!!") and support worldwide conventional terrorism...
I'm sure our allies would understand. Or else, they wern't really allies to begin with.
In that case, I don’t think we have any "real" allies now. Lets just hope we don't make too many actual enemies.

Must resist the urge to intervene in discussion. . .

All I will say is that Americans are stunningly naive about how power has "worked" throughout recorded history and we are following in the footsteps of many empires that overplayed their hands and thereby fell from power.

Perhaps most "rocket scientists" in America are Right-ists.

That merely proves their college study needed more history and humanities requirements. . .

SpaceNut · 2004-11-16 21:40:27

ON WEDNESDAY ISS TO JUMP 4.4 KILOMETRES UP

The usual daily sag of the ISS from earths terrestrial gravity is from 150 to 200 metres a day but under the recent very strong magnetic storm, the ISS station was going down by 300 metres daily throughout last week. Thus requiring a burn of the progress space trucks engines for 548 seconds.

Palomar · 2004-11-18 06:45:54

http://www.spacedaily.com/2004/04111212 … tml]Russia to boost ISS after orbit decays faster than usual
You would have thought that they would have included maybe an Ion drive engine for just that purpose rather than relying on docked progress to do so.
*That's a short, nifty article.
Says average decline is 150 meters a day, but due to the recent magnetic storms the decline is 300 meters per day; total of 4.3 mile decline since last boost.
Also, the next supply vessel will deliver necessities and holiday gifts to the crew. :;):
--Cindy

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.htm … 4540]Boost partially failed

Station reboost occurred at 9:12am EST as scheduled, producing a delta-V of 1.6 m/s, against an expected value of 2.6 m/s. Resulting altitude increase was 2.9 km instead of 4.4 km expected. MCC-Moscow (TsUP) is investigating the underburn of the Progress thrusters.

*...and lots of other information as well. Now what? Is that going to be a serious difference or they'll get along okay until the next planned boost of it?

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2004-11-18 07:15:49

That will depend in large part on the solar storm activity as to whether or not it will become an issue months down the road for the current crew.
Also if they can not get the progress ship to finish it they must diagnose the issue with that ships performance.
I think the docked soyuz could finish the job but it would be necessary to transfer the remaining fuel from the progress after it is preformed in order to use it for safe return to Earth.
One more reason to design a more permanent way of keeping the Iss at the proper altitude.

edit:
The launch of the Progress M-51 cargo craft to the International Space Station (ISS) may be postponed

SpaceNut · 2004-11-18 12:10:50

More direct links to what sun spots and storms also do.

Sunspot activity impacts on crop success

SpaceNut · 2004-11-22 11:26:24

How about turning the ISS into something other than it is doing now. Like having A meaningful role for the space station that can be what we all wanted from the beginning.
The article goes on to suggest that it be a sample and return lab. I think that it could be so much more but will we let it since we are so cash strapped.

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#51 2004-11-15 08:26:05

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#52 2004-11-15 09:16:41

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#53 2004-11-15 11:23:38

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#54 2004-11-15 15:58:47

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#55 2004-11-15 17:03:46

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#56 2004-11-15 17:51:53

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#57 2004-11-15 18:16:05

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#58 2004-11-15 18:20:34

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#59 2004-11-15 18:29:37

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#60 2004-11-15 18:33:52

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#61 2004-11-15 18:33:59

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#62 2004-11-15 18:38:45

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#63 2004-11-15 18:40:41

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#64 2004-11-15 18:50:29

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#65 2004-11-15 18:57:18

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#66 2004-11-15 18:58:36

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#67 2004-11-15 19:03:05

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#68 2004-11-16 08:25:17

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#69 2004-11-16 09:22:59

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#70 2004-11-16 09:34:32

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#71 2004-11-16 21:40:27

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#72 2004-11-18 06:45:54

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#73 2004-11-18 07:15:49

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#74 2004-11-18 12:10:50

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#75 2004-11-22 11:26:24

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

Board footer