New Mars Forums

NovaMarsollia

Banned

Registered: 2002-09-20

Posts: 52

Re: Myths and Mythmaking Images for Mars' Inavsion - Why you guys should rethink your plans!

There are numerous space advocates that long for the day when they can view Mars as a gentle green orb hanging serenely in the sky. From some imaginary point in the Solar System they would like to see blue Earth and green Mars as mother and son travelling together in the inky blackness of space. Such images incessantly permeate the visionary writings of space expansionists and they like to draw from them a peculiar ethic of environmental well-being. The same phenomenon is present when contemplating the current situation where we have but one living planet to view from on high.

It has been said many times that the rise in environmental consciousness took place at the same time that humans were able to view the Earth as a single fragile island in the ocean of space. But the whole Earth image does not only symbolize the beauty, fragility and unity of the world we inhabit. It also symbolizes the feats of technology that industrialism has offered that world. Space enthusiasts continue to explicate the environmentalist nature of space exploration but the irony of the whole Earth image escapes them. Only by conquering the terrestrial environment and making nature the dutiful servant of technology has humanity managed to propel itself skywards. The space photographs that capture the Earth image stand as testimony to this all-conquering victory over the natural world. Space advocates are comfortable with the whole Earth image as it not only indicates human activity in space but also because it allows them to promote a connection between space expansion and environmental concerns.

Moreover, it rationalizes a type of environmentalism that sanctifies the role of science and technology in environmental affairs. This type of environmentalism, variously known as technocentric, cornucopian or shallow environmentalism is problematic to many hardnose environmentalists as it lies too close to the present day values associated with industrial technology and development and as such it hardly offers an alternative to the present agents of environmental destruction. One of the favourite arguments of those who seek to tie environmental concerns to terraforming is to say that it is better to go off to space and wreck a planet out there through the imperious search for resources than to do so on Earth, but it seems that those attitudes that promote the rationalism of industrialism in outer space are the same as those that promote it on Earth.

It is quite ridiculous to think that anti-environmental attitudes and practices in space are going to lead to environmentally-friendly attitudes and practices on the Earth (and vice verca for that matter). If Martian terraformers are really concerned about the environment of their home planet they might like to consider the need to work at the fundamental social values and social relations that directly lead to environmental problems, namely; poverty, inequality, militarism, imperialism amd the anthropocentric values of modern industrialism. The problem for space expansionists, however, is that space expansion as so far practiced is generally the result of these social values and relations.

Without militarism, without imperialism, without a social inequality within and between nations and without the technological hubris of industrialism the adventures of Sputnik and Apollo would never have taken place. The challenge for space advocates is in planning space activities that are not contingent upon the existence of militarism, imperialism, social inequality and industrialism. Only by doing this will they possess the moral legitimacy of the environmental friendliness that they now profess.

The environmental promises of Martian terraformers are grand. Another green world or two, no less. On offer, however, is only an embroidered version of future realities.

By making promises of great things to come space developers hope to attract more followers to their millenial ideas. In this way space rockets stand like medieval cathedral spires, pointing to the heavens as they promise the masses salvation from the toils of terrestrial life if only they follow the scriptures of high technology.

Shaun Barrett

Member

From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia

Registered: 2001-12-28

Posts: 2,843

Re: Myths and Mythmaking Images for Mars' Inavsion - Why you guys should rethink your plans!

Gosh fellas!
     I guess NovaMarsollia is right.
     Our imperialistic, militaristic, industrial mind-set ... embracing widespread poverty, inequality and the destruction of the environment, may be flawed after all.
     I can't believe how blind we've been to the truth!
     Our position is so demonstrably indefensible in the face of such progressive socialist wisdom, that maybe we should just fold our tents and head back to the Middle Ages!

     Ease up Comrade NovaMarsollia!
     The people of New Mars and The Mars Society form a very eclectic group with wide ranging opinions and points of view. Even so, I believe the great majority of us can see the benefits of a sensibly terraformed Mars, given suitable heed is paid to various conditions and objections. These caveats vary greatly within the New Mars family, but we all listen to them, take them on board, and occasionally even change our opinions because of them!
     Who knows! We may even change YOUR opinion and turn YOU into an avid Terraformer!!
                                           

     (Or maybe not! )

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The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

NovaMarsollia

Banned

Registered: 2002-09-20

Posts: 52

Re: Myths and Mythmaking Images for Mars' Inavsion - Why you guys should rethink your plans!

The people of New Mars and The Mars Society form a very eclectic group with wide ranging opinions and points of view.

Yeah--right! Some want to erect American society on Mars, and some want to erect California society on Mars! Some want to blast the surface with 700 nuclear bombs to heat it up, someone want to put big mirrors around it to heat it up...very eclectic.

As 4:

"Who knows! We may even change YOUR opinion and turn YOU into an avid Terraformer!!"

Hey yeah---anything is possible if your optimistic enough (well except the colonization of Mars, thank god, which--despite all my concern is as probable as angels descending to Earth in the form of Elvis Presley)

Cobra Commander

Member

From: The outskirts of Detroit.

Registered: 2002-04-09

Posts: 3,039

Re: Myths and Mythmaking Images for Mars' Inavsion - Why you guys should rethink your plans!

After silently enduring Nova's asinine blather for so long I just have to speak up. If you don't have something remotely intelligent to say, please, remain silent.
As for the unlikelihood of the colonization of Mars; by your own admission humanity has a tendency to expand. In time, assuming we don't botch it by being sidetracked by terminal pessimists with a complete lack of vision, it's going to happen. One way or another, sooner or later...

"space expansionist" ... I'm beginning to like the sound of that.

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Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

dickbill

Member

Registered: 2002-09-28

Posts: 749

Re: Myths and Mythmaking Images for Mars' Inavsion - Why you guys should rethink your plans!

I completely agree that terraforming should be done. I also suggest that, if we find old traces of life on Mars, whatever this is dormant spores or almost dead dried oxydized organisms, we should try to resuscitate them, try to understand their "genetic" code and ultimately integrate their genetic code inside ours for a better adaptation to Mars conditions. Through us, those true "martians" will find a new way to continue their path to consciousness that the unfortunate conditions of the rude Martian climate did not allow.
About their genetic code now, it doesn't matter if they have no real DNA, ultimately a living organism is defined by the information content it can hold, its "negantropy content" as said Erwing Shroedinger in his book "What is life ?". It doesn't matter what chemical form takes that information. No doubt that we will be able to translate this information/genetic code/whatever into a DNA code that our human genome could understand.
We have integrated old bacterial parasites in the past, and now they are endosymbiotic organel inside our cells: the mitochondria and they give us most of our metabolism. Martians still have a future !
ka !

Phobos

Member

Registered: 2002-01-02

Posts: 1,103

Re: Myths and Mythmaking Images for Mars' Inavsion - Why you guys should rethink your plans!

In time, assuming we don't botch it by being sidetracked by terminal pessimists with a complete lack of vision, it's going to happen. One way or another, sooner or later...

I sometimes wonder if civilization will end up being derailed and destroyed by the terminal pessimists as you aptly put it.  Such cynicism seems to grow like small pox among people.  I think it's possible a lot of potentially starfaring societies have given in to the doom mongers and misanthropes of their times and stayed on their little planets until their sun boiled off the oceans and wrapped their world in a Venusian hell.   Just my opinion of course.

We have integrated old bacterial parasites in the past, and now they are endosymbiotic organel inside our cells: the mitochondria and they give us most of our metabolism. Martians still have a future !
ka !

Fascinating points.  I never thought about the possibility of the genetic info of a Martian organism merging with our own.  Even though such a merger might help keep Martian genetic codes alive do you think it has much of a chance of helping people to better adapt to the Martian environment?  After all we'd almost have to redesign our bodies from the ground up to survive any of the conditions on Mars.  I guess evolution could steal some of factors of the microbes that helped them survive and integrate them with us somehow.  And personally I hope Martian life has very little in common with Earth life.  I'd like to see evidence that Martian life developed independently of Earth life.  If Earth and Mars life (if it has life) are obviously related it'll just take us back to square one and still not answer the question of how likely life is to form on planets independently.

Gosh fellas!
    I guess NovaMarsollia is right.
    Our imperialistic, militaristic, industrial mind-set ... embracing widespread poverty, inequality and the destruction of the environment, may be flawed after all.
    I can't believe how blind we've been to the truth!
    Our position is so demonstrably indefensible in the face of such progressive socialist wisdom, that maybe we should just fold our tents and head back to the Middle Ages!

Shaun, do I sense some sarcasm and blasphemy here!!!  I guess scrubbing the pictures of our beloved leaders at the re-education camp didn't quite convince you of the truth of our political philosophies.  Yep, I think your going to be the special project. 

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To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd