ISS cutbacks

Rxke · 2004-09-05 10:42:14

Isn't it ironic how the cupola will probably be installed *after* most of the construction effort will be finished? This thing could come in very handy for visual contact with EVA crews....

ANTIcarrot. · 2004-09-06 06:32:08

Mad Grad Student to GCNR:

You go off on how idiotic the shuttle and the ISS are, then turn around and attack anyone who thinks NASA isn't performing up to par. Do you support NASA unconditionally as it is now?

Here's the thing: The shuttle was designed by comittee. But NASA has been flying it for twenty years. Though they cannot be held fully responsable for how it turned out, you can ask some very pointed questions as to why they haven't been improved upon, and how they managed to lose two of them in just over 100 missions.

True, the science rack won't fit through a progress hatch (do they fit through the shuttle hatch?!) but again, that's NASAs fault for designing them that way, and going to great lengths to ensure there's only one way to launch them. Ditto for all the other ISS components.

And then low and behold, to everyone's great shock, amazement, and complete surprise, the house they built on the sand fell over.

It's kinda hard to blaim anyone but NASA for that.

ANTIcarrot.

Martian Republic · 2004-09-06 20:52:18

The Space Shuttle is a debacle... a horrible mistake... but it is not emblematic of our "best" technology. We could very well build a fine supply vehicle, possibly a stretch version of the CEV launched on Delta-IV HLV, Atlas-V, or "Atlas-VI."
And if the ISS were important, we would... but its not.
(Charlie Brown voice:) Awwwgh! My computer has been acting like HAL 9000 the last couple of days, so this is the first time I've been able to use the internet since last friday.
Excuse me? GCN, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you just spent the last few pages saying that a new supply vehicle could never ever be built? You go off on how idiotic the shuttle and the ISS are, then turn around and attack anyone who thinks NASA isn't performing up to par. Do you support NASA unconditionally as it is now? If you were alive in the Apollo era don't let that disillusion you. Short of some second JFK, we're pretty much stuck where we are and NASA isn't going to change too much. It's going to be a tug-of-war between politicians and myopic NASA administrators, with everybody unhappy in the end. And meanwhile, the private industry is taking it's first baby steps out there beyond Earth while you look down your nose at it. And would it kill you to post a link to somewhere that says that the Russian hatches are to small?

Actually, NASA hand are mostly tied when it comes to space and without a President like JFK there is not much that NASA can do. Most of NASA budget is pre-set and they have limited control over where most of that money goes. NASA has to summit a budget request for both operating expenses and any new project that they want to do.

Even with 15 billion dollars, NASA is also a victim of inflation too. It was NASA trying to trim corners to diminish the cost of the Space Shuttle Orbiters that probably cost the lives of 14 people on two shuttle flights. When your constantly trying to cut corners to be able to maintain manned flight in space, sooner or later it going to bit you and you won't like the results.

Larry,

SpaceNut · 2004-09-07 05:59:41

But this is where the contractors hands are not. They know what nasa needs and could do all the development work without any up front or guaranteed contracts for purchase.

If it is what you need and the price is right you buy it. That's commercialism and that starts the process of space costs coming down though competition.

And speaking of budgets the recent storms and the next ones to come that have already done quite a bit of damage; where will that money come from to repair those facilities? Oh I know just another delayed or cancelled project or will it be Nasa asking for more money from congress?

Grypd · 2004-09-07 17:11:41

And speaking of bugets the recent storms and the next ones to come that have already done quite a bit of damage; where will that money come from to repair those facilities? Oh I know just another delayed or cancelled project or will it be Nasa asking for more money from congress?

Well it could become a very hot political potato when the American Election comes along. Florida is supposed to be a very important state and if it is brought up in an election it may get a lot of high interest. Could be candidates will trip over themselves to promise the repairs

SpaceNut · 2004-09-09 21:16:08

Is this the effect of 2 cash strapped programs lead nations or something else. Oxygen Supplies Tight on ISS again this makes the second time this year that the crew is on the edge of needing to leave the station if anything should happen to the resupply ship if the unit is not fixable.

9 September 2004: Oxygen problems plague space station, MSNBC
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5953450/

8 September 2004: NASA Space Station On-Orbit Status 8 September 2004
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=13906

"Update on Elektron: The Russian oxygen (O2) generator is still off. [The crew performed limited troubleshooting this morning for the ground to acquire diagnostic telemetry. The problem this time is apparently not with bubbles in the BZh Fluid Unit but with the unit's oxygen & hydrogen gas analyzer, which is a failure mode not seen before. With Elektron off, ISS will reach the lower O2 limit in the cabin air in 7 days. Beyond that, there is 62 lbs (28 kg) of O2 in Progress 15P, enough for 16 days. There are also 84 SFOG (solid-fuel oxygen generator) "candles" on board, which would supply another 42 days' worth of O2. In short, total O2 margin is well above and beyond what is needed to make it to the next resupply date (Progress 16, on 11/26) and maintain redlines.]"

Palomar · 2004-10-01 11:05:19

*I searched with "cupola" and came up with this thread. I scrolled back 3 pages...don't see a direct reference to this:

***
September 1, 2004
Space station addition ready
A ceremony September 6 in Italy will mark the completion of a European-built cupola destined for the International Space Station (ISS). The module's windows will provide panoramic views through which astronauts can control the station's robotic arm and conduct Earth observations and other science. The addition also will house hardware crewmembers can use to communicate with each other throughout the station and during space walks. The project was a barter between the European Space Agency (ESA) and NASA; ESA built the cupola in exchange for transportation of European equipment to ISS aboard the shuttle. After the module is transferred to the Kennedy Space Center in Cape Canaveral, Florida, it will receive a final set of checks and then be put into storage. Launch is slated for January 2009.
***

It's from Astronomy online magazine's "astro bytes."

To see an image of it
http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.as … 2432]click here and scroll down; is towards the end of the page. There is no direct way to link to the image, sorry.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2004-10-01 11:26:23

Had seen the cupola about a page back just under the columbus and Jaxa modules with the ESA page link.

Launch time in 2009?, Why build it so many years in advance of actual use only to set in storage? Right in the middle of hurrican ally.

Palomar · 2004-10-01 11:40:27

Had seen the cupola about a page back just under the columbus and Jaxa modules with the ESA page link.

*Oh sure, SpaceNut...now you tell me!

:;): Just kidding of course.

Well...I missed it. So we've got a reminder, apparently. :-\

Now back to my regularly scheduled headache. -laugh-

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2004-10-01 12:04:30

No problem it is always good to be reminded anyway
but at the time I was looking at what modules were left to be placed into orbit and of any possible cancellations due to shuttle timeline to retirement. In additions to which ones might be off loaded to alternative launch vehicles.

SpaceNut · 2004-10-06 14:07:16

While Nasa flounders in the wake of the shuttle disasters and tries to get going on the vision of the space exploration. The Russians just keep on ticking like a finely tuned watch never missing a beat.
Now it appears that even though they are cashed strapped with regards to funding of there space programs they will complete there next piece of the ISS.

RUSSIA'S ISS SEGMENT CAN BE BUILT BY 2011
http://en.rian.ru/rian....alert=0

Palomar · 2004-10-13 07:27:23

***
September 1, 2004
Space station addition ready
A ceremony September 6 in Italy will mark the completion of a European-built cupola destined for the International Space Station (ISS). The module's windows will provide panoramic views through which astronauts can control the station's robotic arm and conduct Earth observations and other science. The addition also will house hardware crewmembers can use to communicate with each other throughout the station and during space walks. The project was a barter between the European Space Agency (ESA) and NASA; ESA built the cupola in exchange for transportation of European equipment to ISS aboard the shuttle. After the module is transferred to the Kennedy Space Center in Cape Canaveral, Florida, it will receive a final set of checks and then be put into storage. Launch is slated for January 2009.
***
It's from Astronomy online magazine's "astro bytes."
To see an image of it
http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.as … 2432]click here and scroll down; is towards the end of the page. There is no direct way to link to the image, sorry.
--Cindy

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n041 … la/]Cupola arrives at Kennedy Space Center

*Nice big pic of it (crated). Was shipped from Italy. That is so cool. Too bad it's going to take until 2009 to get it to the ISS!

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2004-10-13 08:12:25

Not to mention surviving though those years hurricane seasons which has been very devastating to the people of Florida but also in that it will cause delay for launches of time sensitive probes and the likes including the shuttle return to flight. Which is now slated for late may 2005 and could be even later if more CAIB recommendations are not cleared.

Palomar · 2004-10-13 08:22:37

Not to mention surviving though those years hurricane seasons which has been very devistating to the people of Florida but also in that it will cause delay for launches of time sensitive probes and the likes including the shuttle return to flight. Which is now slated for late may 2005 and could be even later if more CAIB recommendations are not cleared.

*Thanks for those optimistic thoughts, SpaceNut. :laugh:

Looks like there's plenty of inspections, testing and the like still in the works. Canadarm2 is 60 ft long? Am sure I didn't know that; wow.

Would rather wish this a crated-up something for the first human expedition to Mars.

That ladder on the side of the crate gives a good idea of the size.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2004-10-13 11:20:13

Well all optimism aside the next crew will be blasting off tomorrow and found this article rather amusing for the superstitions and ceremonies that the Russians partake of before each launch.

There are many traditions before anybody launches into space on a Russian rocket. The cosmonauts watch the movie "White Sun of the Desert" the night before launch. The movie is sort of a western thriller, set in the Caucus mountains, and many of the cosmonauts have memorized the entire dialogue.

Danville astronaut ready for blastoff

Chiao scheduled to begin his mission on Russian Soyuz rocket today
http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stories....0.html#

Palomar · 2004-10-13 12:54:45

Well all optimisim aside the next crew will be blasting off tomorrow and found this article rather amusing for the superstitions and ceremonies that the Russians partake of before each launch.
There are many traditions before anybody launches into space on a Russian rocket. The cosmonauts watch the movie "White Sun of the Desert" the night before launch. The movie is sort of a western thriller, set in the Caucus mountains, and many of the cosmonauts have memorized the entire dialogue.

*That's an interesting anecdote. Nice to see the more human side of things. Why that particular movie, I wonder?

http://www.universetoday.com/am/uploads … ]Different pic of the cupola

Why does that remind me of the Millenium Falcon? :hm:

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2004-10-21 06:37:05

While it is not a cutback article it does show promise for what the station was intended for all along.

Russia to increase number of space experiments on ISS
http://www2.interfax.ru/eng/news/politi … story.html

Mad Grad Student · 2004-10-22 17:42:28

There may still be hope for the ISS to be useable up to its advetised capacity. At first I didn't think much of Bigelow Aerospace, but they are fully-funded and are starting to turn out real hardware now. IMHO, they really do have a shot at launching a private space station by 2010, but I've previously read that Bigelow's main goal is to sell modules for other space station ventures, rather than building his own. Each of the Nautalus modules will have an enormous volume (although I can't find the exact figure I remember it being somwhere in the ballpark of the entire ISS in its current configuration) and it's reasonable to think that one could be modified to be used as a hab for the ISS's crew. That, coupled with the craft that wins the America's Space Prize could create both a big home for future astro/cosmonauts on the ISS and an ERV. If NASA can't solve its own problems, why not let the private sector take hold of them? With the Aldridge report's pro-alt. space influence, this might actually be a real possibility in the near future.

SpaceNut · 2004-10-26 09:42:10

More stuff on the ESA columbus module:

Columbus Control Centre Inaugurated In Oberpfaffenhofen

ESA Columbus Laboratory Home page

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#176 2004-09-05 10:42:14

Re: ISS cutbacks

#177 2004-09-06 06:32:08

Re: ISS cutbacks

#178 2004-09-06 20:52:18

Re: ISS cutbacks

#179 2004-09-07 05:59:41

Re: ISS cutbacks

#180 2004-09-07 17:11:41

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#181 2004-09-09 21:16:08

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#182 2004-10-01 11:05:19

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#183 2004-10-01 11:26:23

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#184 2004-10-01 11:40:27

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#185 2004-10-01 12:04:30

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#186 2004-10-06 14:07:16

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#187 2004-10-13 07:27:23

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#188 2004-10-13 08:12:25

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#189 2004-10-13 08:22:37

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#190 2004-10-13 11:20:13

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#191 2004-10-13 12:54:45

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#192 2004-10-21 06:37:05

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#193 2004-10-22 17:42:28

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#194 2004-10-26 09:42:10

Re: ISS cutbacks

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