Marsquakes - detecting marsquakes

Julius Caeser · 2004-10-11 08:53:46

Its out;evidence from orbit seems to show that marsquakes are still active on Mars!Evidence for this are the presence of a serious of a chain of pitholes similar to ones found in Iceland on Earth which have developed along a fault line and have been there since only 1975!What we need now are seismic probes to corroborate those findings!Bad news for those who attributed methane to life on Mars?Maybe!!For full article go to space.com

SpaceNut · 2004-10-11 10:11:50

Had seen this this morning and had put my comments under the opportunity and spirit thread. I did not think starting a new topic would generate much at this time with regards to the story. But it does raise some questions with regards to the internal stucture of the red planet and even hopes of starting a magnetosphere in the future.

Question that I had:
Does either of the rovers carry any siezmic instruments to detect quakes... or could some combination of them be used to do so?

Could this also answer the Methane and amonia as signs of life question..or is mars not a sleep but is awakening from a long slumber.

Response was a no on the equipment:

Palomar · 2004-10-11 11:24:24

Question that I had:
Does either of the rovers carry any siezmic instruments to detect quakes... or could some combination of them be used to do so?
Could this also answer the Methane and amonia as signs of life question..or is mars not a sleep but is awakening from a long slumber.
Response was a no on the equipment:

*Yeah, and that really miffs me. Of course (drastic understatement!) I'm not overly familiar with robotics, much less creating one (drastic understatement!). :laugh: But I really wish there'd been a way to include seismic instruments on the MERs. Oh well. The next time they should be included...but hopefully that'll be a manned mission and our astronauts will feel the rumbling under their boots!

--Cindy

djellison · 2004-10-11 11:56:07

Well - Phoenix doesnt have one ( the next lander ) - and I dont believe the MSL has plans for one either ( as it's mobile )

Hopefully a netlander type mission will be put in place as a scout mission sooner rather than later - for global climactic monitoring and seismic observations.

Doug

SpaceNut · 2004-10-11 12:49:43

It really could be added to the platform that makes the lander since the rover leaves it. Especially since it has no other purpose after it leaves. Would need minimal items to make one work for long durations.

Stu · 2004-10-11 12:50:43

Marsquakes, hmm? Well, take a zoomed-in, close look at the newly-released THEMIS mosaic of Valles Marineris I posted a link to yesterday (in "Spirit & Opportunity 8", a mistake, I know, but I was so hyped about it. I apologise) and you'll see pits by the gazillion, running along what appear to be fault lines. In fact, in places it looks like that part of the (Arizona?) desert where they detonated underground nuclear explosions in the past.

(raises eyebrow in a Spock-like way.) ???

Fascinating...

Palomar · 2004-10-11 14:32:19

It really could be added to the platform that makes the lander since the rover leaves it. Especially since it has no other purpose after it leaves. Would need minimal items to make one work for long durations.

*That's a really good idea, I think. :up: Let's start a letter-writing campaign!

Stu: In fact, in places it looks like that part of the (Arizona?) desert where they detonated underground nuclear explosions in the past.

*What?? Hmmmm. Don't want to go off-topic, though.

--Cindy

::edit:: By the way, in the Images section of the space.com article, it says "More pit chains on Mars. An optical illusion may cause the pits to appear as mounds to some eyes, but they are indeed depressions." They look like *mounds* to me.

Stu · 2004-10-11 15:24:01

Stu: In fact, in places it looks like that part of the (Arizona?) desert where they detonated underground nuclear explosions in the past.
*What?? Hmmmm. Don't want to go off-topic, though.

Can't swear it was AZ, but I definitely saw some desert area somewhere looking like - indeed, compared to - a lunar landscape, as a result of underground tests in the 50s or 60s. I'm wondering now if they actually said "nuclear", or if they were just huge conventional explosions meant to simulate nuke's popping. But still, they look v similar to the crater chains visible in the THEMIS mosaic.

I know what you mean about the pits vs mounds thing Cindy, I get spooked by that sometimes too

djellison · 2004-10-11 15:57:12

It really could be added to the platform that makes the lander since the rover leaves it. Especially since it has no other purpose after it leaves. Would need minimal items to make one work for long durations.

Well - actually - the lander 'empty nest' would require

Power Supply ( solar or RTG )
Power Management
Communications hardware
Heaters
Vents
Memory
Central processing of some sort
and instrumentation and a whole lot of things I've not thought of

It's be like building a whole new spacecraft into a parts of another spacecraft that's already TOTALLy full in terms of mass and volume.

Doug

SpaceNut · 2004-10-11 20:00:32

Is what you are saying, is that the rovers were the soul source for all of these while waiting to land inside the lander.
I definitely will need to do some research into how much truely is enough to do what was thought of. Since I know little about it...

SpaceNut · 2004-10-12 07:02:32

Went on the nasa site to further my knowledge of the mars lander and of what it has versus what leaves with the rover when it leaves its nice comfy nest.

Acelerometer which measure tilt but also can be used to measure extreme vibrations as well.
UHF antenna but not sure where the transmitter is.
Pedal and airbag are adjustible or retractable but power source only mentions solar energy.

Further details of lander not on this page, will need to keep searching.

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/ … ander.html

It appears that rover gets power initially from the lander:

That event is the cable cutting of an umbilical attaching Spirit to its lander platform. Spirit receives power and communications through that umbilical. Once cut, the robot can begin making its moves, taking an off ramp to Mars
as indicated in a space.com article.

djellison · 2004-10-12 11:52:14

The only power that comes via the lander to the rover is from the solar arrays on the cruise stage - to which we waved bye bye before EDL.

There is a UHF antenna for comms to MGS during EDL - but the transmitter is within the rover WEB, ditto the two LGA antennae as well. The accelerometers are within the WEB also - not the lander. Whilst there are some batteries on board the lander structure - I imagine they will be quickly exhausted by the critical deploy and most likely non-rechargable.

There is no command / memory / data / transmission / power system onboard the lander structure - all that has to come from the rover basically.

The point is mute really - as the MER platform whilst succesfull is unlikely to be reflown. however - the job of converting the Lander into an active spacecraft in its own right is impossible due to mass/volume limits - and complex to the point of making more sense just to dump microprobes or a netlander type mission instead.

Doug

SpaceNut · 2004-10-12 12:58:10

Yup a little searching unless missions are cancelled the only probe that would be simular but not a rover is the Phoenix Lander. http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/lander.php

The next generation rovers are way different the list it as a verticle lander but not sure how it will release the very large rover that it will contain.

After that mission it gets a lot more than just gray since it appears no long term goals have been put forth at this time.

Palomar · 2004-10-12 13:10:07

The next generation rovers are way different the list it as a verticle lander but not sure how it will release the very large rover that it will contain.

*Is http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1588]this what you're referring to, SpaceNut?

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2004-10-12 20:04:20

That is the article with the 2009 date but I am not sure if that is the launch or the landing time frame.

The lander hovering then lowering the sky hook reminds me of the shape of a plane. The main problem of the next generation rover is the down mass. I would say that we needed to think in terms of a gentle type landing for the more fragile instrumentation that it will contain.

I sort of like the other thread inflating of a balloon to slow it down even more than a parachute followed by retro rockets.

Question for the bouncing ball approach, what type of gas is used to inflate those? If inflated with helium rather than possible leftover hydrogen would this not have the same effect as one larger balloon?

Definetly the steerable parachutes would come in handy for this project also that is in another thread.

Much of the science lab detection is being discussed under the chilean desert life detecting rover.

SpaceNut · 2004-10-30 18:55:40

I have seen this photo before but here is the article. Earth quakes produce fault lines but on Mars they are sink holes, this could also be an indicator of under ground water and of its movement.

Pit chains hint at recent marsquakes on red planet
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0410/29marsquakes/

SpaceNut · 2004-11-01 10:50:44

With radar eventually probing for under ground water maybe we will have answer someday.

Marsquakes: Cracking the Water Case?

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#1 2004-10-11 08:53:46

Re: Marsquakes - detecting marsquakes

#2 2004-10-11 10:11:50

Re: Marsquakes - detecting marsquakes

#3 2004-10-11 11:24:24

Re: Marsquakes - detecting marsquakes

#4 2004-10-11 11:56:07

Re: Marsquakes - detecting marsquakes

#5 2004-10-11 12:49:43

Re: Marsquakes - detecting marsquakes

#6 2004-10-11 12:50:43

Re: Marsquakes - detecting marsquakes

#7 2004-10-11 14:32:19

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#8 2004-10-11 15:24:01

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#9 2004-10-11 15:57:12

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#10 2004-10-11 20:00:32

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#11 2004-10-12 07:02:32

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#12 2004-10-12 11:52:14

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#13 2004-10-12 12:58:10

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#14 2004-10-12 13:10:07

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#15 2004-10-12 20:04:20

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#16 2004-10-30 18:55:40

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#17 2004-11-01 10:50:44

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