Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

SpaceNut · 2004-09-30 07:59:02

It appears that more science research is needed into the cause and lasting effect of long duration space flights before the journey can begin.

First we found that bone lose was something to correct, Muscle atrophy, Radiation exposure and now it would seem the immune system as well.

Are there other reasons that would stop us from ever going?

Study Suggests Spaceflight May Decrease Human Immunity
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/spacetravel-04zze.html

Grypd · 2004-09-30 08:11:01

Is it not the lack of gravity that results in these issues being a threat. If we cannot cure them physically or medically can we treat them by removing them mechanically. In this create gravity and a means to reduce radiation exposure.

Ad Astra · 2004-09-30 08:25:50

This is of the utmost importance from an engineer's perspective. If artificial gravity is needed, the ships will have to be bigger and costlier. If we can get by without it, we will save much on our mass budgets.

Between 2010 and 2017, the ISS is expected to give us the answers we seek about long-duration spaceflight. Yet there is no compelling reason I can see why we can't do this research now. It would not be that hard to send an astronaut up to duplicate Polyakov's duration record, and future astronauts could stetch the record even further until we can approach the length of a trip to Mars.

clark · 2004-09-30 08:29:38

The problem though is you need more data points, which requires more people sitting up there for longer and longer. The problem with that is you end up with a bunch of highly trained astronauts just sitting up there for no other reason than to see what happens to them/

"Be a sport and sit in this cubicle for a year or two while your body turns to jelly. Now that's a good chap."

This is just one more reason why we shouldn't run off to Mars half cocked. Mars isn't going anywhere, and we can be a bit more methodical in our approach.

Ian Flint · 2004-09-30 08:41:09

Mars isn't going anywhere, but I am!

Ask any astronaut what he/she would rather do -- sit on the space station while turning to jelly, or explore Mars while turning to jelly. Is it ethical to have astronauts ruin their health while not accomplishing anything else? Is it economical? Is it really a problem? Mars does have gravity you know.

clark · 2004-09-30 09:07:29

But getting there dosen't! Getting back dosen't have gravity either!

One of the astronauts responded to a reporter about the Russians wanting people to stay onboard the ISS for year long stints- he said he didn't think it was a good idea because they needed something more to do than just sit in a small cramped space a few dozen miles above Earth.

My point is simply that we can go to the Moon, explore a little bit further from Earth first and learn how to solve these issues in the process. Then we will be ready for Mars.

Palomar · 2004-09-30 09:10:04

*Space.com's "Astronotes" is hosting a similar short article to the one SpaceNut started the thread with.

Here's another item of interest: "The results are no great surprise. Previous studies have shown that long-term space travel...weakens drug potency..."

Interesting. I was thinking the other day about medication, weightlessness or decreased gravity (as compared to Earth's, i.e. on Mars), dosage parameters (based on body weight), etc.

Weakens drug potency...hmmmmm. Would like to read more about that.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-09-30 09:20:44

Weakens drug potency...hmmmmm. Would like to read more about that.

Just that much more you have to smuggle on board to make a buck...

Palomar · 2004-09-30 09:31:09

Weakens drug potency...hmmmmm. Would like to read more about that.
Just that much more you have to smuggle on board to make a buck...

*I was referring to prescription medications!! :laugh:

Cobra...tsk, tsk.

--Cindy

P.S.: I especially wonder about the effects of insulin on diabetes in these conditions (regardless of types).

Martian Republic · 2004-09-30 09:45:25

I see two way of dealing with this problem.

The one way has already be discussed. Do the research to solve the problem that long space flight cause on the human body. This research need to be done if we intend to colonize space and make space a place to work and play without causing medical problem. It will no doubt include shielding, artificial gravity and medical and biological repair kits. To mention just a few thing that we will need to make space an agreeable place to be for us humans. This is obviously going to take time to accomplish all this stuff.

There short term solution or relatively short term solution for going to Mars. That would be to develop a faster space ship to get you to Mars. Instead of coasting to Mars for six month and exposing yourself to all that harmful radiation and having to deal with micro-gravity problems that causes bone lose, Muscle atrophy, immune system and maybe a few more thing that we don't know about too. If we were looking for a space ship design that could get us to Mars in a one to two week period, we could avoid most of those medical of that long flight to Mars. Any exposure that the Astronauts would get, should be on a low enough level as to not cause any permanent damage to them. Once the Astronauts get to Mars, they should be able to shield themself enough from radiation and Mars 38% gravity that the Earth has. So counter measure could probably be taken to protect themselves while there on Mars. This would be my preferred way to deal with the medical problem that we are running into on long duration flight in space.

Larry,

Euler · 2004-09-30 09:59:23

There short term solution or relatively short term solution for going to Mars. That would be to develop a faster space ship to get you to Mars. Instead of coasting to Mars for six month and exposing yourself to all that harmful radiation and having to deal with micro-gravity problems that causes bone lose, Muscle atrophy, immune system and maybe a few more thing that we don't know about too. If we were looking for a space ship design that could get us to Mars in a one to two week period, we could avoid most of those medical of that long flight to Mars.

How would we build a space ship that can get to Mars in a week?

SpaceNut · 2004-09-30 10:01:48

Well I had toyed with the idea of a moving gas station by using ION drive to get the fueling station on the way to Mars then catching up to it, by as you put it coasting, refueling to give an additional speed boost.
Sort of like plane refueling by the airforce.

Martian Republic · 2004-09-30 10:20:01

There short term solution or relatively short term solution for going to Mars. That would be to develop a faster space ship to get you to Mars. Instead of coasting to Mars for six month and exposing yourself to all that harmful radiation and having to deal with micro-gravity problems that causes bone lose, Muscle atrophy, immune system and maybe a few more thing that we don't know about too. If we were looking for a space ship design that could get us to Mars in a one to two week period, we could avoid most of those medical of that long flight to Mars.
How would we build a space ship that can get to Mars in a week?

We are not going to do it with technology we currently have in hand, because what we can currently build can't achieve that kind of speed. That means we are going to have to start doing some theoretical work of what can achieve that kinds of speeds. Then do science on it and how it would work. Then you would have to take it into the engineering stage and finally into manufacturing stage of it. I already know that neither chemical nor fission power could generate the power to push our space craft that fast. Even if we knew some that would push our space ship that fast, it would probably take us ten to twenty years to develop it so we could use it.

So I'm open to suggestions.

Larry,

John Creighton · 2004-09-30 10:31:45

How would we build a space ship that can get to Mars in a week?

antimatter? ???

Martian Republic · 2004-09-30 10:42:49

How would we build a space ship that can get to Mars in a week?
antimatter? ???

Or possibly fusion. I heard somewhere that it has the theoretical potential to push some thing that fast too.

But, if you wanted to go to Jupiter or Saturn in a few weeks, you would defenetly have to go with matter/anti-matter system to get that kind of boost or speed for your space ship.

Larry,

SpaceNut · 2004-09-30 10:52:21

Which means magnetic field containment research for the warp drive system.

Grypd · 2004-09-30 11:20:04

Unless some medical breakthrough is found and the reports are found to be wrong it will really put a stop to long term space exploration away from the apparent safety that the public and politicians believe comes from planet Earth orbit.

This is not my opinion but the health threats to astronauts will certainly be used and probably successful against the space advocacy groups by those against space exploration. Frankly unless a means is found to sort these problems it will become an uphill struggle to get a mars mission or any long term manned missions anywhere.

Can this be sorted, yes. We already know that if we spin an object and as long as it has a slow enough speed it will produce enough gravity to solve the bone loss etc. But will we get a chance that is not so certain?

Commodore · 2004-09-30 14:26:25

Or we can just make a ship large enough to have artificial gravity via centrifical force.

The trickiest part is launching curved pieces from earth.

BWhite · 2004-09-30 14:28:54

Take a Soyuz and a Progress. After they have been to ISS so their accounting value is ZERO.

Tether together nose to nose.

Spin up to 3/8th gee and practice tethered flight in LEO.

Like, duh!

Ian Flint · 2004-09-30 14:40:41

Why have our space agencies never tested artificial gravity? As far as I know the Mars Society is the only group working on such a project. $15 billion a year, NASA, and no artificial gravity research...tsk, tsk.

GCNRevenger · 2004-09-30 14:44:33

Why no artifical gravity research? Because there isn't any good reason for it yet. The Moon only being three days and Mars being six months away, humans can manage well enough in zero-g. There must be focus if we are going to get to Mars, and every penny that goes into artifical gravity research and engineering is another penny that won't go to hardware we do need.

BWhite · 2004-09-30 14:52:59

That is why a free Soyuz and a free Progress is such a good idea, IMHO. Heck the incremental cost of flying such a tandem for tethered flight practice could be covered by the Discovery Channel special run about the missions.

= = =

Why aren't we doing it?

Maybe some people benefit from increasing public perception that doing space is waaay hard.

Commodore · 2004-09-30 14:53:56

Take a Soyuz and a Progress. After they have been to ISS so their accounting value is ZERO.
Tether together nose to nose.
Spin up to 3/8th gee and practice tethered flight in LEO.
Like, duh!

Yeah, untill the tether breaks, and the Soyuz smacks into the DirectTV satillite, and the Progess dives into the atmosphere, taking out a herd of South American goats.

I wouldn't try it without a ridged structure.

Martian Republic · 2004-09-30 15:14:32

Why have our space agencies never tested artificial gravity? As far as I know the Mars Society is the only group working on such a project. $15 billion a year, NASA, and no artificial gravity research...tsk, tsk.

We were going to originally, but it got canceled because of cost over run on building the ISS. It got canceled about the same time the intended habitat didn't go up and is still waiting to go up.

Larry,

GCNRevenger · 2004-09-30 15:53:43

That is why a free Soyuz and a free Progress is such a good idea, IMHO. Heck the incremental cost of flying such a tandem for tethered flight practice could be covered by the Discovery Channel special run about the missions.

If by "Covered by the Discovery Channel" means One Hundred Million Dollars, then yeah. It costs about $40-50M for a Soyuz and a bit less for Progress, plus modifications to the control systems, balencing vehicle weights(they have to weight about the same), and engineering involved (will the solar pannels snap off when spun up? safety cable-cutting system?) will easily make this a nine-digit project. And it will only last a few days, not months.

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#1 2004-09-30 07:59:02

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#2 2004-09-30 08:11:01

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#3 2004-09-30 08:25:50

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#4 2004-09-30 08:29:38

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#5 2004-09-30 08:41:09

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#6 2004-09-30 09:07:29

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#7 2004-09-30 09:10:04

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#8 2004-09-30 09:20:44

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#9 2004-09-30 09:31:09

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#10 2004-09-30 09:45:25

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#11 2004-09-30 09:59:23

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#12 2004-09-30 10:01:48

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#13 2004-09-30 10:20:01

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#14 2004-09-30 10:31:45

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#15 2004-09-30 10:42:49

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#16 2004-09-30 10:52:21

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#17 2004-09-30 11:20:04

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#18 2004-09-30 14:26:25

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#19 2004-09-30 14:28:54

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#20 2004-09-30 14:40:41

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#21 2004-09-30 14:44:33

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#22 2004-09-30 14:52:59

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#23 2004-09-30 14:53:56

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#24 2004-09-30 15:14:32

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

#25 2004-09-30 15:53:43

Re: Long duration Human space missions - Can we survive them?

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