ISS Woes & To-Mars

Palomar · 2004-09-21 11:51:20

*Lots of recurring negative news in the press about ISS woes over this year (yeah I know the ISS has had troubles since prior to 2004...but the general public has a short-term memory).

Do you think this impacts greatly on the public's perceptions of the safety of space exploration?

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2004-09-21 11:57:12

Yup, you are right in that if this were the Mars vehicle concepts at work, the crew would always be on the leading edge of danger as it journeyed to Mars. Problem list is funding, resupply, construction process and design longevity.

Now just add some music, a few cameras for all the action and we have a money maker insuspense films or reality tv.

edit for poll
As for the general public excluding space enthusiast they hear very little about Nasa and or any space missions. It is only in the news if it is traggic or denoting failure in some form.

end edit

Funding
There is an Appropriations hearing at 2:30 p.m.
Business meeting to markup proposed legislation making appropriations for the government of the District of Columbia and other activities chargeable in whole or in part against the revenues of said District for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2005, and proposed legislation making appropriations for the Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and for sundry independent agencies, boards, commissions, corporations, and offices for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2005. SH-216 webcast

http://www.capitolhearings.org/

Grypd · 2004-09-21 17:07:07

When Mir was falling apart we didnt laugh (much) we knew it was the poor Russian space industry trying its best with very limited resources.

When we hear about how the ISS is falling apart and it is making the news running out of air, costing billions, doing nothing. Frankly it puts a pall on space and we who are trying to put together expansion have to fight this. How can you arque with politicians who say but the ISS cost Billions why do you want more money when we can spend the money on something that does something. As im not in the US I can tell you the farce that the ISS appears is stopping our efforts to get my goverment to invest more in space.

very frustrating, especially as Aurora is on the table

Algol · 2004-09-22 03:30:58

well you knwo what they say....

Theres no such thing as bad publicity.

SpaceNut · 2004-09-22 07:06:37

Results of yesterdays Appropriations hearing.

NASA budget OK'd by Senate panel
$16.4 billion bill allows extra funds for Hubble, shuttle
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/space/2808048

Senate panel OKs extra money for NASA
Committee would reverse House budget cuts

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6067433/

http://appropriations.senate.gov/releas … ?id=226469

National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA): is funded at $16.379 billion, an increase of $200 million over the FY04 enacted level, and a reduction of $665 million from the budget request. An additional $800 million in emergency funding was added for NASA during the Committee’s consideration of the bill.

-- The return to flight activities for the Shuttle program are funded at $4.319 billion, the requested level from the Administration.

-- The International Space Station is funded at $1.6 billion. The bill reduces ISS operations by $120 million due to the continued reduced capability of the ISS for at least half of FY05.

-- The Moon/Mars vision:

--- The Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV) is funded at $268 million.

--- A lunar exploration mission is funded at $20 million

Martian Republic · 2004-09-22 09:46:45

When Mir was falling apart we didnt laugh (much) we knew it was the poor Russian space industry trying its best with very limited resources.
When we hear about how the ISS is falling apart and it is making the news running out of air, costing billions, doing nothing. Frankly it puts a pall on space and we who are trying to put together expansion have to fight this. How can you arque with politicians who say but the ISS cost Billions why do you want more money when we can spend the money on something that does something. As im not in the US I can tell you the farce that the ISS appears is stopping our efforts to get my goverment to invest more in space.
very frustrating, especially as Aurora is on the table

The real problem is that we don't have a real vision of what we are trying to accomplish and the derived benefits from those accomplishment. All we see is money going, going, going, money gone. So you don't see any benefits in investing in space. Not only does that hold true for government, but that also hold true for private business too.

But, without vision of space and what we want to do there, it start band and hear the music playing and read your comic books as to the great things our space hero accomplish or go out and watch science fiction movie or TV show of an outer space flick.

Now let all get excited!

Larry,

SpaceNut · 2004-09-23 06:19:26

Now here is a real bit of science that can show why we should invest in space.

ISS crewmembers may help develop anti-AIDS vaccine
http://www2.interfax.ru/eng/news/politi … story.html

Austin Stanley · 2004-09-24 00:22:04

well you knwo what they say....
Theres no such thing as bad publicity.

Funny that you should say that. Normaly I would agree with you, but I don't think that saying applies in political situations such as this. When people are called upon to make a yes-no decission like about the ISS station or a political canidate, influencing them in a negative manner in not productive. This is diffrent than most product marketing, as when a person is required to make a selection from a group of choice (such as products to buy) name recognition can be more help-full then the negative conitation in some cases.

OTOH, dropping the ISS is just what the space program needs to realy get rolling again, so maybe this is a good thing in the long run.

GCNRevenger · 2004-09-24 19:59:20

Anybody see tonights' Yahoo news headlines? ...ISS running out of oxygen.

Yeah, that'll go over well.

Vir Stellae · 2004-09-24 21:15:44

Cant we just dump that white elephant into the pacific and do some real exploration??

Austin Stanley · 2004-09-24 23:01:36

Cant we just dump that white elephant into the pacific and do some real exploration??

Hmm... just like with Skylab eh? The Aulstralians weren't realy happy about that one.

Seriously though, the joke does bring a good point to mind, the public is not likely to be happy if the money put into ISS goes to waste either. Realy a lose-lose situation.

comstar03 · 2004-09-25 01:58:28

Frankly, I don't think the strategy for ISS wasn't thought through, We don't follow a set master plan, we are doing thinking all over the place and don't get anywhere.

Example - In Earth Orbit we have several different types of orbital platforms from spinning space stations, storage and maintenance stations, commercial labs and manufacturing stations, tourism stations and more.

Again where is the master plan for humanity going into space and the space administration structure for earth and moon corridor, or the L1-5 point control and more.

Martian Republic · 2004-09-25 10:43:04

Frankly, I don't think the strategy for ISS wasn't thought through, We don't follow a set master plan, we are doing thinking all over the place and don't get anywhere.
Example - In Earth Orbit we have several different types of orbital platforms from spinning space stations, storage and maintenance stations, commercial labs and manufacturing stations, tourism stations and more.
Again where is the master plan for humanity going into space and the space administration structure for earth and moon corridor, or the L1-5 point control and more.

Actually, the International Space Station never really had plan or purpose and that actually what we got. And that what we got a space station that didn't have reason for being, but it just happened. It half finished that over price with cost over runs and even after we finish building it would be just a research station and that about it. I'm sure they can and do good research on the ISS that can't be done any place else, but it uses are limited primarily to research and development and not much else. The only reason NASA got into it was they wanted a space station and with congress cutting there budget all the time and lowering what they could spend on a space station. NASA compromised down sizing and finally going with the Russian and other to finally get the ISS is bad way to go after building a space station. With that kind of compromising, you generally get something you don't want or can't use the way that you would like to use it.

Since we got that piece of junk up there, I think we should do the minimum to make it functional by sending up living quarters six to twelve people on maybe a Cargo Shuttle and two emergency return shuttle and call it a done deal. Then we can go on to something else.

Since we do have ISS up there, we should make the best use of it, since it will take a few years to get something to replace it and it too will be in the billion dollar range. So we may as well figure on using what we have up there rather than just building another one without purpose or goals in mind.

Palomar · 2004-09-25 11:27:17

Anybody see tonights' Yahoo news headlines? ...ISS running out of oxygen.
Yeah, that'll go over well.

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/ex … ml]Drawing up plans to de-crew the ISS...

*...if life support stores run too low. Yes, I saw the Yahoo! article as well. I always cringe when I see such a headline plastered on Yahoo! in those bright red letters. Of course, the taxpayer (I'm one!) should be kept informed.

But still...

--Cindy

GCNRevenger · 2004-09-25 12:42:31

Oh but your wrong, the ISS definatly did have a purpose to begin with, which is has fulfilled beyond NASA's expectations, it just isn't the one (science) thats advertised... The little tinker-toy space station(s), which later became ISS, was conjured up as a project to keep Shuttle busy and ISS construction engineers working for as long as possible in such a fasion that the project could not be axed without grevious political expense. In this role, the ISS has been spectacularly sucessful... Apollo's future is dead, NASA's budget is cut in half and dropping, the originally good idea of Shuttle will never live up to expectation with so little money and so many requirements...

Shuttle is eventually built anyway because the USAF didn't want to fly Titan-IV anymore and because NASA execs wipserd sweet lies into the ears of politicans about how much it would save to fly it... So NASA has its rocket, but there is nothing to fly on it. The Air Force bails, the commertial space-boom doesn't materialize, so without a destination the money to fly Shuttle or any rocket is as good as gone. And thus, so is NASA.

So, we got a space station... The Russians intend to launch the spare Zarya-II and could double the number of Soyuz-TMA flights to make a six-man crew possible without a US HAB or CRV, but the problem is you still can't do much up there without heavy payload, and major repairs will be all but impossible without Shuttle. Its just pathetic...

Martian Republic · 2004-09-25 16:00:18

But, that my point GCNRevenger, without a coherent plan or vision, we will basically go nowhere. That means we are going to have to make commitment or otherwise we will be just building another ISS type program, because it cheaper.

But, any serious effort for science exploration purposes or for colonization will have to be planed out in a forty to sixty year time frame on what we want to accomplish and not on what it cost. Because, it takes at least one to two generation to build the infrastructure and even maybe three generation to get the job done.

So it can’t be solely on price alone, but on what we need to accomplish our stated mission. We fell into this mind pattern after the Apollo Mission ended and we have been talking about it ever since of what we would like to do in space. If nothing changes, thirty years from now, we will still be talking about it and we will probably still be where we are right now. We have been basically marching in place for the last thirty years or so and going nowhere, but trying to look sharp.

I hate to being negative, but I have watched the space program take off under John F. Kennedy Leadership and I saw the space program come to a grinding halt under Nixons Leadership. Since that time, we been buying one piece of junk after another without a clear plan as to what we are trying to doing in space. I hate to sound like a broken record, but, no plan, no mission, no money, it a dead issue, we can meet back here bounce our idea around, but, it a dead issue.

I’m going to tell you right now GCNRevenger, I don’t like half the stuff I say either and I wish it were not true some times. But it is true and there nothing that I can do about it. It not going to stop being true because you don’t like it either. We could have a poll of everybody on this board and we could have a unanimous agreement that we don’t like it, then say is not true and because we don’t like it, but it will still be true. I generally put out there what I’m reasonably certain true and represent truth and if that be case, it not going to stop being true, because you didn’t like it and have objection to it.

Larry,

SpaceNut · 2004-09-25 19:05:18

The good news about bad news sometimes is that it has the opposite effect than to the one everyone is expecting. Rather than causing the ISS to continue to be under funded it may just if enough if voices are heard to push more funds to do what is necessary to not only complete the ISS but also to come up with a more coherent plan for its use once upon complete.

John Creighton · 2004-09-25 19:25:45

We have been basically marching in place for the last thirty years or so and going nowhere, but trying to look sharp.

Maybe that is true for the manned space program but the unmanned space program has lowered the cost of robotics missions made advances in propulsion and control systems. It has helped advance our understand of the equipments for life and answered import geological questions about the forming of the planets. It has also increased our communication capacity thought the solar system. It is just that unmanned space exploration is not as glamorous.

SpaceNut · 2004-09-29 07:32:36

Are past project failures and even current on going use of the shuttle and of the ISS completion really so bad as the Senate feels?

Quote:
The silver lining in the Senate Appropriations Committee's boost in NASA's budget is the cut in funding for the international space station, an ongoing project that proves there are indeed black holes in space — fiscal black holes.

NASA's black hole
http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/200409 … -3836r.htm

Palomar · 2004-10-05 08:59:03

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/is … .html]Good grief!!

::sigh::

That, and all the space junk orbiting our planet.

--Cindy

SpaceNut · 2004-10-05 09:44:43

I agree we should have learned how to recycle things in space rather than throwing them out only to be hit by the items possibly later.

This also marks a very real problem for the journey to Mars duration and accumulation of garbage as well that will be problematic for any crew.

Edit
As space science explorers we should know better than to possibly contaminate what we wish to explore someday.

SpaceNut · 2004-10-07 20:10:59

While not much said as usual by the russian articles it however does show ther intent to follow though even if we can not.

Experiment to imitate manned flight to Mars to begin in 2006
http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=10709481

SpaceNut · 2004-10-11 14:13:21

Well finally a partners meeting is going to be held, I am sure the topic will be the shuttle..

ISS PARTNERS MEETING SCHEDULED FOR EARLY 2005 - ROSKOSMOS
http://en.rian.ru/rian....alert=0

comstar03 · 2004-10-12 03:52:09

I believe that we need an unmanned vessel to be launched to mars with droids, drones, satellites, and other equipment to fully survey mars from a ground level and from space and also look for quality sites for Mars Outposts.

We need also to test other technologies for voyages from earth to mars, using remote systems provides us the ability to build and test automated computer and robotic systems within future vessels, and scientific measurements within spacecraft hull and test other materials that could provide valuable insight for human space program for the future.

We could also pack it with sensors and other scientific equipment making it the largest probe in history of humanity space missions, Also can provide detailed space analysis of all parts of our solar system. We could sell space to russia and europe for droids for mars to lower the overall cost.

We need the research data !!!!

SpaceNut · 2004-10-12 07:45:23

Well the next crew will shortly be on there way to the station but of what perils will the face over the coming months as the station continues to age. One can only hope for none and that the maximum value of science that can be achieve for there stay. Article contains some of the missions goals.

New resident crew heads to space station this week
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/station/e … eview.html

New Mars Forums

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#1 2004-09-21 11:51:20

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#2 2004-09-21 11:57:12

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#3 2004-09-21 17:07:07

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#4 2004-09-22 03:30:58

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#5 2004-09-22 07:06:37

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#6 2004-09-22 09:46:45

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#7 2004-09-23 06:19:26

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#8 2004-09-24 00:22:04

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#9 2004-09-24 19:59:20

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#10 2004-09-24 21:15:44

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#11 2004-09-24 23:01:36

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#12 2004-09-25 01:58:28

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#13 2004-09-25 10:43:04

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#14 2004-09-25 11:27:17

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#15 2004-09-25 12:42:31

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#16 2004-09-25 16:00:18

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#17 2004-09-25 19:05:18

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#18 2004-09-25 19:25:45

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#19 2004-09-29 07:32:36

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#20 2004-10-05 08:59:03

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#21 2004-10-05 09:44:43

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#22 2004-10-07 20:10:59

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#23 2004-10-11 14:13:21

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#24 2004-10-12 03:52:09

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

#25 2004-10-12 07:45:23

Re: ISS Woes & To-Mars

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