Heliopolis

Palomar · 2004-09-02 13:14:15

It sure is an amazing coup, to go out and scoop up 'star stuff' and bring it home. And wouldn't those stunt helicopter pilots be excited to be able to turn their skills to something as incredible as this?!!

*Hi Shaun: I hope they're as interested in the scientific importance of it as the thrill ride. :;):

Coronal]http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/hot_and_hotter.html?292004]"Coronal Heating" Mystery

*Fabulous article (and great pic too):

"For years scientists have been baffled by the 'coronal heating problem': why it is that the light surface of the Sun (and all other solar-like stars) has a temperature of about 6000 degrees Celsius, yet the corona (the crown of light we see around the moon at a total eclipse) is at a temperature of two million degrees?...

'It is totally counter intuitive that the Sun's temperature should rise as you move away from the hot surface,' explains Dr Robert Walsh of the University of Central Lancashire and co-organiser of the workshop. 'It is like walking away from a fire and suddenly hitting a hotspot, thousands of times hotter than the fire itself...'"

*They're advancing 2 major theories. I prefer the first (yeah...I know I'm not qualified -- but anyway)...

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2004-09-02 17:00:39

Well, just to be contrary, I favour the 'snapping magnetic field' hypothesis for the coronal high temperatures! And I'm every bit as well qualified as you are in this area, Cindy!

[P.S. I wonder if Ahkenaton would have been as convinced the Sun was God if he had noticed the blemishes on its shining face ... ? ??? ]

Palomar · 2004-09-02 19:24:57

Well, just to be contrary, I favour the 'snapping magnetic field' hypothesis for the coronal high temperatures! And I'm every bit as well qualified as you are in this area, Cindy!

*Any particular reason why you favor the 2nd theory, Shaun? The reason I'm in favor of the 1st theory -- "wave heating" -- is because it seems (seems being the operative word here of course) a more consistent, global-wide method of heating the corona. I've seen computer animation (wish I could find it again!) of the motion of solar energy (maybe not the exact phenomena the article discusses, but an energy pattern anyway) arising from the surface -- it's a definite wavy motion; like soft and hyponotic ripple. It seems the 2nd theory would be more erratic, with possibly more snapping on some parts of the solar globe than at other times; uneven distribution and "patchiness." But since I'm not a pro, of course there's a -really- good chance my musings might be all backwards or wrong.
:-\

[P.S. I wonder if Ahkenaton would have been as convinced the Sun was God if he had noticed the blemishes on its shining face ... ? ??? ]

*Those aren't blemishes. Those are beauty marks.

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2004-09-03 01:02:58

No. No particular reason for choosing the second possibility, except that it sounds more extreme and I visualise the Sun as an extreme environment and 2 million degrees as a pretty extreme sort of temperature. The process and the result seem made for each other! (Plus, I'm playing Devil's Advocate to some extent.)
I note your objection to snapping magnetic fields - that this process would surely lead to uneven conditions in the corona - but that begs the question: How uniform are temperatures in that region? For all I know, 2 million degrees is just an average figure and the actual temperature might vary greatly around that number, depending on the prevalence of twisted loops of magnetism at any given moment and position. (Ignorance is bliss and I'm consequently unconstrained in my wild conjecture! )

Chances are the high coronal temperatures are due to some combination of factors, including those described in both hypotheses and, perhaps, others we haven't thought of yet.
Isn't science wonderful?!! :up:

Palomar · 2004-09-03 06:52:52

but that begs the question: How uniform are temperatures in that region? For all I know, 2 million degrees is just an average figure and the actual temperature might vary greatly around that number, depending on the prevalence of twisted loops of magnetism at any given moment and position.
Isn't science wonderful?!! :up:

*Good point. And yep -- science is marvy.

Nifty little article from Astropix:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap011108.html]Under a Sunspot

-and-

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap991227.html]Solar Moss

Good ol' Astropix...short, sweet and to the point. Always a treasure or two in their Archives.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-09-05 07:59:22

GENESIS CRASH & RECOVERY, ETC., BEING FOLLOWED IN
THIS THREAD:

http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic … ...entry28

Forget the rest of the below :angry:

----------------------------
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004 … htm]Strike up "Ride of the Valkyries"! :laugh:

*Genesis capsule is coming home. :up:

The link (also in my sig) includes a map of where Genesis' fireball will be visible (unfortunately not in my vicinity).

A group of scientists will watch the re-entry from the air, aboard an Air Force plane. Not just a joyride: "The plane is equipped with a battery of telescopes and spectrometers pointing out of 20 upward-looking windows. In years past, the NKC-135 has flown to study Leonid meteor showers. This time 'we plan to study the hot shock wave in front of the capsule,' explains Jenniskens." The article discusses astrobiological tie-in.

They're predicting the capsule will glow 10 to 100 times brighter than Venus. "For comparison, that's about as bright as a fat crescent Moon. Jenniskens expects the fireball to be most luminous (visual magnitude -9) when it is over Nevada." Wow.

I hope schools in the area will get the kids outdoors and looking up! Great -- and "free" -- way of observing science in progress.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-09-08 06:07:59

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004 … htm]Strike up "Ride of the Valkyries"! :laugh:
*Genesis capsule is coming home. :up:
The link (also in my sig) includes a map of where Genesis' fireball will be visible (unfortunately not in my vicinity).

*Any ham radio operators here? Spaceweather.com for today's date is displaying the below. Links accessible within the text, at the site:

"RADIO GENESIS: When Genesis reenters, the capsule will blaze a radio-reflecting plasma trail in the atmosphere above Oregon and Nevada. Ham radio operators might wish to try meteor-burst communications through that area between, say, 8:52 a.m. and 8:56 a.m. PDT on September 8th. Also, radio meteor listeners should turn their antennas toward the reentry path and listen for unusual pings."

--Cindy :up:

Palomar · 2004-09-08 09:12:44

*Just saw a Yahoo! article which says:

"...the refrigerator-sized capsule's..."

Well there's so much to keep track of; I'm not sure I knew the Genesis capsule was that large. Maybe I forgot.

Roughly 45 minutes until she begins descent through the atmosphere. I'll try to catch it on CNN; hopefully they'll cover it.

The stunt pilots have had 100% success rate during practice runs. ::fingers crossed::

--Cindy

::EDIT:: http://www.genesismission.org/]Homepage includes "countdown clock" and other good stuff.

Cobra Commander · 2004-09-08 10:05:34

... and they crash it. ???

Bugger. So much for that. :angry:

Palomar · 2004-09-08 10:21:17

DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN!!!!!

:angry: :angry: :angry:

I'm watching TV just now. The frickin parachutes didn't even deploy!!!!!

It just tumbled through the sky and crashed.

I COULD CRY!!!!!

Now they're saying it has an explosive charge on it - ? Guess they've got to handle that next. :shakes head:

AArrrggghhhh!!!!

SpaceNut · 2004-09-08 10:32:04

Just another of those forgotten abilities from the apollo era. The sample collectors are probably broken and most likely unusable. Why did they not use the ISS as the point of collection? Probably when I looked at the low price tag on the mission they did not allow for a engine burn to bring it into orbit?
The experiment is worth doing again but under the current funding senerio probably will not happen in this decade.

Palomar · 2004-09-08 10:32:35

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u … ule]Photos...

...of what's left.

If those wafers survived I'll begin believing in miracles.

It plowed a 3-feet hole into the ground.

::EDIT:: My brain is frazzled right now...why couldn't they have outfit Genesis with airbags (or whatever they're called), like the MERs had...that way it could have bounced and rolled to a stop within cushions in the event the chutes failed?

--------------------------------------------------

**EDIT/NOTE**

WE ARE FOLLOWING THE GENESIS CRASH & RECOVERY IN http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3260]THIS THREAD

Any future *Solar science* (Sun-exclusive) data gleaned from the mission will be posted here, as it becomes available. Thanks.

Palomar · 2004-09-13 11:05:18

*Spectacular image from SOHO: "An M4-class solar flare erupted near sunspot 672 on Sept 12th, and the blast hurled a coronal mass ejection (CME, movie) toward Earth..." It fans out in all directions, though (talk about a shock wave!).

The bright "star" to the left is Jupiter. And if you look closely enough, you can see faint streaking objects in the background.

Image hosted by spaceweather.com (today's date -- web page is updated daily).

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2004-09-13 19:30:52

Amazing sequence of shots! The Sun really spews out some material, doesn't it?!!

What are those "faint streaking objects"? Has any explanation been offered?

Palomar · 2004-09-14 05:26:16

Amazing sequence of shots! The Sun really spews out some material, doesn't it?!!
What are those "faint streaking objects"? Has any explanation been offered?

*Hi Shaun:

Yeah -- that's one of the best SOHO images yet.

Well...SOHO is at the Lagrange Point. Maybe the faintly streaking objects are asteroids? No explanation has been offered from the pros. Maybe I should try and find a link to an address, and ask.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-09-14 09:13:19

No explanation has been offered from the pros. Maybe I should try and find a link to an address, and ask.
--Cindy

*Well...I looked for an address through which to pose the question. No luck.

http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object … 47]Ulysses mission extended :up:

Unanimous decision in February 2004. In 2007 and 2008 the probe will fly over the Sun's poles for a 3rd time.

Lots of good info in this short article as to future mission objectives, etc.

"'We’re all excited by the wonderful scientific opportunities that Ulysses will give us in the next four years,; says Richard Marsden."

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-09-16 08:12:45

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020207.html]Coronal hole

*Thanks again, Astropix. :up:

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2004-09-16 08:21:34

That's one hole I'd hate to fall into!! :laugh:

Palomar · 2004-09-16 13:16:25

That's one hole I'd hate to fall into!! :laugh:

*Aw c'mon Shaun...where's your sense of fun and adventure?? :;):

http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish … Heliomancy?

*Intriguing bit regarding the "shell of water vapor"...

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2004-09-16 20:09:56

Yes. Interesting stuff.
In common with most space enthusiasts, I've known for a long time that our Sun is going to swell up into a red giant at the end of its tenure as a main sequence star. And I've heard of Mira stars here and there in my travels. But I hadn't realised what a Mira star actually is, nor had I understood that our Sun falls into this category of stars.
My long slow education continues!
(Thanks, Cindy.)

Palomar · 2004-09-30 07:21:34

*If you thought Sol had sunspots, http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031102.html]check out THIS baby! Dang. ::shakes head::

-*-

http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2004/3 … 1.jpg]July -- oh my Photos hosted at spaceweather.com; all taken by Mr. Gary Palmer of LA. (This guy is GOOD; they're always hosting his pics) :up:

--Cindy

::edit:: http://www.exploratorium.edu/sunspots/]Terrific link to sunspot info via 1st link in this post.

Palomar · 2004-10-10 08:14:09

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.htm … 5256]Solar wind, heliosphere, helium, etc.

*One of the better articles I've seen lately about the heliosphere, etc.

"The solar wind, which expands radially from the Sun at supersonic speed, blows a cavity - the heliosphere - into the surrounding interstellar cloud, filling it with solar material and magnetic field. The plasma component of the interstellar gas is kept outside the heliosphere.

By balancing the solar wind ram pressure, which is easily measured, against the pressure of the surrounding cloud, the size and shape of the heliosphere is determined. With the new consensus set of interstellar helium parameters, its density, temperature, flow direction and speed relative to the Sun, the interstellar pressure can now be computed more reliably and the roughly 100 AU size of the heliosphere more accurately determined..."

--Cindy

::edit::

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020508.html]Sunspot loops in ultraviolet

Or "ultraviolent." Spiky, crazy, beautiful.

Shaun Barrett · 2004-10-10 17:21:28

"Ultraviolent."
!!! :laugh:

Nice twist of a word to suit the occasion.
Interesting article too.

Palomar · 2004-10-12 05:51:42

http://www.spaceweather.com/images2004/ … ank.gif]No sunspots

*Sol is entirely devoid of sunspots. This is only the 2nd time I've seen the Sun "blank" since following spaceweather.com, although they state it's the first time since January 1998. I remember earlier this year their reporting a blank Sun. :hm:

Well, interesting about the solar cycle. We're in the midst of a dormant sunspot cycle right now; in a few years we'll be out of the lull and in another peak period.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-10-20 07:00:34

http://www.spaceweather.com/images2004/ … ank.gif]No sunspots
*Sol is entirely devoid of sunspots. This is only the 2nd time I've seen the Sun "blank" since following spaceweather.com, although they state it's the first time since January 1998. I remember earlier this year their reporting a blank Sun. :hm:

http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish … 004]Eureka! Erm...I meant, "That's funny..."

*Hathaway confirms my memory...in January 2004 there were no 'spots (and, of course, again just last week).

Interesting to have noticed that, whereas there were approximately 41 'spots on Sol yesterday, today there are twice as many.

David Hathaway is quoted in the article above as saying the solar cycle is -not- precisely 11 years in length. "What makes a cycle long or short? Researchers aren't sure. 'We won't even know if the current cycle is long or short--until it's over,' he says." This is something of "a first"...most sources I've read indicate rather solidly an approximately 11-year cycle. :shrug:

They're predicting Sol may enter the next solar maximum cycle early.

Spots]http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2004/19oct04/palmer1.jpg]'Spots or no, Sol is still active

Pic of prominences taken October 16 by Mr. Gary Palmer.

--Cindy

P.S.: Can't forget this tidbit: "'We examined data from the last 8 solar cycles and discovered that Solar Min follows the first spotless day after Solar Max by 34 months,' explains Hathaway."

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