TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

karov · 2004-09-13 03:14:17

The Edgeworth-Kuiper belt perhubs have total mass 0.5-1 earth`s. May be more, if it extends further as assumed. Its objects didn`t managed to succee in forming larger bodies as in the innermost System, due to big distances between them. But still there are 35 000-100 000 KBOs bigger than 100 km in diameter ( hundreds >1000 km?). May be even some of mass more than Earth`s or the Martian lurk out there.

The Oort cloud - between 30-40 earth masses and 300-400 earth masses ( ~Jupiter mass ). The Inner cloud ( ~10 000 AU) totally up to ~3 Ly from the Sun.
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Even if the KB mass is estimated as not enough, and this Belt massing >1000 times the Inner Main asteroid belt is regarded logically only as a sourse of materials - everything one finds in the Main Belt + the valuable volatiles; than still we have the huge mass of the Oort cloud to think about artificial planetary formation.

These >6 000 000 000 000 comets in the Cloud are very weakly bound by the Solar gravity and need only slight maneuvres to be redirected toward certain points. There one can in principle use only mechanical means - tethers, cathapults, gravity assists involving little energy or even GAINING energy via deorbiting the majority of the OC population to <10 000 AU from the Sun...
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The OO comets are enough materal for:
- from 30-40 to 300-400 artificial "Earths"
- from 300-400 to 3000-4000 artificial "Mars"
- from several thousands to several tens of thousands "Moons"
, depends on the surface gravity prefered.

On ~10 000 AU distance from Sun where its gravity is still big enough to prevent other stars passing to disturb effectivelly the objects orbits, one needs a soleta mirror-lense of diameter ~10 000 times the illuminated artificial planet`s diameter to achieve earth level of natural earth sunlight income. To construct these mirrors the Oort cloud terraformer needs only thousandt parts of all the matter there - C and Al. The way one leads the individual comets toward the coalescation site, determines the diurnal cycle of the forming body...

To construct several HUNDRED new earths on distances hundreds of times lesser than interstellar ones is obviously usefull and cheaper than interstellar travel to the same number of closest exosolar planets of this type...

karov · 2004-09-13 04:42:31

http://www.neofuel.com/neocomets/

"These comets are made of about equal parts of a fine, black hydrocarbon similar to dirty oil shale, fine silicate dust similar to clay, and water ice. " - about the comets up to jovian distance from the sun - the shortperiodical ones. Generally the comets should be made of the same material common for the primordial soral system nebulae - the material of the Sun or gas giants minus the Helium and the most of the hydrogen, which didn`t conected to form water, amonia or hydrocarbons... Composition similar to the planetoides or moons beyond Jupiter`s orbit, where the solar heat is weak enough the ices to stay in place. The inner ones are too solar wind "weathered".

In other sources you could find that this de-H/He-ed primordial matter for building distant moons, asteroids, kuiperoids, TNOs, comets consists of almost equal parts of "rocks" ( including the more complex hydrocarbons) and "ices" ( water, amonia, light alcanes)

This is the content of the hypothetical "Ocean-Planets", but with artificial controled way of arranging the matter in the new planetary mass objects out there in the Inner Oort cloud - a surface entirelly covered with water ocean could be avoided. Other parameters of chemical differenciation/stratification by atomic masses could be deployed:

For example solid mud, ices... in the interoir, covered with foamed isolating crust with terrestrial temperatures above. Or Europa-like phase state arrangement - molten interior, inner planetary ocean with several dozens of kilometters ice crust, covered with foamy 'teluric' one...

The mass is there.

One just need to compose it properly in the chunks of matter with appropriate mass for the chosen syrface gravity and to illuminate the new planets with the huge flimsy mirror-lenses.

The newly formed bodies also as earth, but brand new, will possess the enormous internal heat reserves from formation, chemical recombination, radioactivity, phase shifts and chemical gravitational differenication to ensure if necesarry TRILLIONS of years of lifetime for earth-size civilization and biosphere or bigger even without the solar illumination. Kinda much closer to us artificial dark "Interstellar-Planets", but full-fledged Inner OC multiple new "earths" or "mars" or "moons" is quite better...

karov · 2004-09-13 11:40:42

http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/Wingmakers … Cloud.html
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especially - "The Oort cloud is an immense spherical cloud surrounding the planetary system and extending approximately 3 light years, about 30 trillion kilometers from the Sun. This vast distance is considered the edge of the Sun's orb of physical, gravitational, or dynamical influence.
Within the cloud, comets are typically tens of millions of kilometers apart. They are weakly bound to the sun, and passing stars and other forces can readily change their orbits, sending them into the inner solar system or out to interstellar space. This is especially true of comets on the outer edges of the Oort cloud. The structure of the cloud is believed to consist of a relatively dense core that lies near the ecliptic plane and gradually replenishes the outer boundaries, creating a steady state. One sixth of an estimated six trillion icy objects or comets are in the outer region with the remainder in the relatively dense core.
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The dense core of the Oort cloud, these ~85% of all mass are around 10 000 AU from the Sun - area where they are completelly within the Solar syetm gravitational domination sphere. I.e. we need to move the individual cometary chunks to the collection points on distances no longer than several thousands of AU. I.e. to produce from several dozens to several hundred brand new "earths" will take just a few centuries. The closer to the Sun material will be collected in dozens of years, the farthest hovering in almosrt interstellar distances - millennia. For our planetary assembly line that means - one new planet every several decades - quite good figures for such enormous project.

The energy to redirect the paths of the comets to coalesce:

1. Solar sails - later used for illumination of the ready planets on statite possitions.

2. Gravity assists with the gas giants - a process vice versa to the formation of the Oort cloud - because bringing closer the comets will push further the gas giants and will disturb the System, better will be to explit the reserve of axial rotation of the giants. De-spinning them should be sufficient.

3. THE BEST way in meta-ecological terms is to use the axial rotational energy of the comets themselves. De-spinned to zero angular velocity via direct exchange of mechanical momentum between eachoder through "dunamical loops". Imagine selfreplicating tether`s+solar-sails` systems exploiting this rotational energy to replicate, to de-spin and to redirect the comets to the collection points -- infect the Cloud with several thousands such machines and prepare to settle after several decades new and new planets.

Such OC-planetary condensation fleets could be sent to the stars in order to produce on every place thousands of times of earth-analog environments WITHOUT to tuch the inner systems which could be inhabited by local unique biota.

Very RED (K.S.R.), ah?

Gennaro · 2004-09-13 13:50:55

Always think it's so fascinating (and hard to believe) that the Oort Cloud (well parts of the remaining 15%) actually extends for lightyears out from the sun.
This would mean that the outer reaches must meet the Oort Cloud of Alpha Centauri and consequently interact with it, so theoretically some of our comets would be matter from our neighbouring star system and leftovers from its nebula birth place.
This is where the theory of panspermia assumes concrete form.

chat · 2004-09-13 15:29:25

Great idea about forming planets and moons from the left overs, but can we wait for the millions of years for the new planets or moons to cool down from the impacts?

It might be a good plan to collide a few select ones together in Mars orbit to wet a planet without the impact devastation.

karov · 2004-09-13 16:41:07

Always think it's so fascinating (and hard to believe) that the Oort Cloud (well parts of the remaining 15%) actually extends for lightyears out from the sun.
This would mean that the outer reaches must meet the Oort Cloud of Alpha Centauri and consequently interact with it, so theoretically some of our comets would be matter from our neighbouring star system and leftovers from its nebula birth place.
This is where the theory of panspermia assumes concrete form.

Yes, the simulations show that we should profoundly reconsider the interstellar medium as not being so empty void. For example:
-in the inner systems ( where later the rocky hot planets reside) innitially together with the comets indeed ~dozen of terrestrial size worlds accrete. The gas giants perturb their orbits and eject them out-system, thus they migrate closer to the star via natural gravity assists. Sometimes very closer? - Hot Jupiters? It should every hot-jupiter system had populated the "empty" interstellar void with dozens of planetary mass objects. Our-type of System with less number(?).
-the comets themselves, being the very planetesimals after ejecting during the major planets formation, veery often gain enough velocity to leave the stars` orbs of dynamic dominance. Indeed the calculations and simulations show that the Oort cloud contains only 3-10% of the innitial ejected mass, the rest of 90-97% roam independently the Galaxy in star-like orbits.
- the Oort clouds if so huge indeed should overlap, but the interstellar action is excercised in layers: the closer than ~50000AU remain firmly solar objects and don`t move - no closer no further the Sun. Between 50 000 and 100 000 AU the outer disturbances from nearby stars, molecular clouds and galactic tidal action rather drive then in-system as long-periodic comets. The more distant although which may be are exchanged between the systems do this in very "gentle" way -- the exchangeble "co-orbit" the stars and in different moments in they life time belong to one star or other or none.
The middle ones ( inter-system perturbable 50 000 -100 000 AU) and the outer ones ( interstellary perturbable "roamers") should represent less than 5% of the star-bound comets. The distances between them should count billions of kilometters...

But, interesting for the proposed artificial planetary formation, llie in the Inner Oort cloud: out of 50-100 AU, beyond the KB, where the influence of the gas giants is still big enough to gave birth of the short-periodical comets, and within the 50 000 AU boundary of the long-periodical comets. The densest cometary population, these 85% of the total OC mass, are namely here as close as ~10 000 AU from Earth/Sun -- the major sourse of constrcutional material for new artificial planetary formation.

Collection points as close as ~1000 AU might be chosen. This signifficantly will decrease the soleta mirror-lense requirements. The huge lenses can be used to decelerate solar sail ships launched from the inner system and to allow trips less than a year long to the newly formed worlds. These worlds will reside in the most safe and stabile region of the Solar system.

karov · 2004-09-13 16:53:01

Great idea about forming planets and moons from the left overs, but can we wait for the millions of years for the new planets or moons to cool down from the impacts?
It might be a good plan to collide a few select ones together in Mars orbit to wet a planet without the impact devastation.

NO, we shouldn`t wait. The newly formed worlds` crusts mught be cooled artificially to tolerable for earth-like environment on-serfice allong with the last accretion events/impacts... The lava on surface could be insolated by gently landed blocks of cool tile-crust... These planets will be much more geologically active than 4.6 bln years old Earth, but this can be controled and very usefull. They`ll have much bigger geothermal reserves, i.e. lower requirements for insolation.

About Mars - it is more economical for it to be used icy bodies from the planetary realm of the System, incl. the Kuiper Belt having plenty of big massive iceteroids. Or even some Centaur class will be better having in mind the opportunity to use the gas giants gravity wells for cheap transportation of the planetoid to Mars via gravity assist.

The OC-plenetforming is real estate development business of entirelly new class. Compared with the classical terraforming, together with the P.Birch style of supramindane habitats building or the tube-worlds Topopolis constrcuction, it is like the greening of a desert, compared with an artificial island building. The classical terraforming meliorates the surfaces of existing planets, the artificial planetary fomation ( APF) MAKES the terra firma into existence...

smurf975 · 2004-09-13 19:41:34

You have a lot of interesting ideas Karov. Not saying I would personally would go for it or not but they would make nice science fiction stories.

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I wonder how you would artificially cool the newly formed planet faster then normal natural ways. Drop ice comets, to melt (and so absorb the heat) and form oceans?

How will you collect all the dust / asteroids / comets to form a planet? Will you use space based bulldozers?

What about Jupiter like planets to act like a sun? As the sun it self it to far away to be of any use.

Animal life on Earth needs the moon for several reasons. Have you considered that?

karov · 2004-09-14 04:19:49

You have a lot of interesting ideas Karov. Not saying I would personally would go for it or not but they would make nice science fiction stories.
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I wonder how you would artificially cool the newly formed planet faster then normal natural ways. Drop ice comets, to melt (and so absorb the heat) and form oceans?
How will you collect all the dust / asteroids / comets to form a planet? Will you use space based bulldozers?
What about Jupiter like planets to act like a sun? As the sun it self it to far away to be of any use.
Animal life on Earth needs the moon for several reasons. Have you considered that?

Thank you. I think anything concerning terraforming is science fiction, assuming that nowaday gross-humanity product is several orders of magnitude smaller than the necesarry to even start thinking on business scale to accomplish such tasks...

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1. Cooling -- the way Paul Birch proposed for QuickTerraform of Venus - thremal carier little bodies circulating from ground to orbit to expel the heat in space, effectivelly increasing the heat emiting volume thousands of times, hence shortening the period to several decades. This leads to irreversible loss of usefull geothermal enrgy, but it could be harnessed for accumulation works for other bodies. To move more comets. The best way I preffer is the newly formed molten rock ball, to be covered with high temperature withstanding and thermally insolating tiled artificial crust. Tiled to allow interaction between the molten interior and the upper terraformed surface in controlled manner like the earth tectonics and carbo-silicate termostat, but more sophisticated and non-cathastrofic...

2. The comets move slowly along their orbits - redirect the vector in order condensation to occur. The comets V is so low that they`ll need very modest kicks to reorbit toward coalescence. It could be done by concentated with huge mirrors sun light to solar sails ( best - dusty plasma sails), via tethers to use the axial rotation of the cometary bodies to change their orbits... I like to see all this, cause it involves trillions of individual pointed and coordinated nudges as work of some self-replicating system totally dependent on local mechanical power sourses. Enormous simulation in principle can show how with minimal energy input to avalanche the comets to condense in several hundred teluric bodies. The cometary halo equation of state shows certain dynamical non-equilibrium stability. Little chaos-theory can be applied in order to be found and accomplished the cheepest way to new such state - the planned mass units reorganisation.

3. Jupiter-size or even lesser gas giant would consume much of the bulding material in the cometary halo and make pointless any tarra-contruction effort. Also local light sourse is not necesarry due to the good proximity of the Sun. 1000 to 10 000 AU would need only 1000 000 to 100 000 000 times bigger area of the mirror-lenses in accordance with the planetary disk area to illuminate the bodies with earth-level of insolation. The natural sun light makes the thing even more earth-like. With mirrors as flimsy as 0.0067 g/m2 one needs only several trillions of tonnes of material for illumination of all the hundreds of artificial planets. Cause such illumination will be necesarry in any case for earth-likeness, than the mirrors could also selfreplicate duing the accumulation phase in order to power it. We even may consider KB ( on Pluto distance)huge mirrors concentrating light on solasers which further to redistribute the light within the Halo for transport of the comatary nucklei themselves and powering the machinery. This saves us the huge expenditure to hawl there heavy nuclear reactors. The Oort cloud has the material and the energy in ready easily accessible forms - lots of sun light and the dynamical energy - orbital and axial-rotational of the comets.

4. Moons can be constructed along the planets as easy ( or hard) as the planets themselves. But in principle I don`t consider that - the Moon is just an aspect of the earth life not necesity.

smurf975 · 2004-09-14 09:00:48

4. Moons can be constructed along the planets as easy ( or hard) as the planets themselves. But in principle I don`t consider that - the Moon is just an aspect of the earth life not necesity.

No the moon is very important. Especially for night hunters and foragers. Whole species of sealife base their mating season on the moon. And then you have also low and high tide which some life depend on.

karov · 2004-09-14 13:30:15

The moon can be replaced by orbiting in ~month long orbit mirror, rotating to emulate the phases.

But, again - I think a huge moon won`t be necesarry.

MarsDog · 2004-09-21 19:12:35

I wonder how these object will be found.
There are ways to detect stealth aircraft.
But at light year distances, looking for dark iceballs,
would need spacecraft to explore.

karov · 2004-09-23 13:42:08

I wonder how these object will be found.
There are ways to detect stealth aircraft.
But at light year distances, looking for dark iceballs,
would need spacecraft to explore.

1. Note that ~85% of the comets are much closer than a light year ( >60 000 AU) from Earth. Indeed these which may be interesting for APC - artificial planetary accretion are closer than 10 000 AU off-Sol. The average distance between the cometary bodies ( former inner system`s planetesimals with typical size of 10-15 km each and composition of equal parts of water ice, carbohydrates and rock, ejected in the early era by inward migration of gas giants...) is ~80 000 km. Such spacing is within the range of the interplanetary radars ( used as early as 50-es for venus under-atmospheric imaging) and out there where the solar "noise" is much-much lower radars with very low energy of emision can be used. Yes, the comets are dark, but for echolocation certain well reflected by their typical surface frequency can be chosen. So with 'radars' with range of dozens or hundreds of AU, only few stations can define the exact locations of the majority of such inter-10 000 AU objects over certain size ( >50 meters?). The location of the comets can go paralelly with the preparation for the redirection-to-coalescence work.

BTW, it occured to me that the Inner Oort cloud can be regarded as a whole as chaotic system, its behaviour emulated by 'quantum computer' and to be found mathematical solution for the best combination of minimal energy of 'several' gentle nudges and time for coalescence. Indeed the whole cloud to be made to condense in several hundred earth-size 'drops' via kinda 'buterfly effect'. This would save us the energy but will need really massive computation.

2. Even so far from the Sun, where the illumination is dozens or hundreds of millions of times weaker, the surface temperature of the bodies is higher from the cosmic background. 25-30 K ?? Precise bolometry will catalogue every body within, say 10-20 000 AU and, say, >1 km...

3. Several thousand of space telescopes with kilometer size mirrors would find all comets.

karov · 2004-09-27 01:37:25

The astronomical observations show that around Tau Ceti is present Oort cloud at least ten times more massive than the solar one.

That means , say ~5000 earth`s masses. Or ~50 000 Mars ones... Coalescing the material in mars-size units will be >3 times more effective in mass-surface area terms.

If mars-gravity experiments show that ~0.4 gees acceleration is OK for mammals ( and humans) than an Oort cloud as the Tau Ceti`s one can be rearranged in >50 000 (!!!) terraformed planets with surface area >150 000 times the earth one or 75-100 TRILLIONS of km2 and ~1/3 gee surface gravity.

That puts entire new dimension in the sphere of the solar and interstellar planetary colonization.

MarsDog · 2004-09-28 05:29:13

2. Even so far from the Sun, where the illumination is dozens or hundreds of millions of times weaker, the surface temperature of the bodies is higher from the cosmic background. 25-30 K ?? Precise bolometry will catalogue every body within, say 10-20 000 AU and, say, >1 km...

Looking and http://eng.sdsu.edu/testcenter/javaappl … alculating 2.726K and double 5.452K.

At double temperature, power peak T^4 = 2^4 =16 times greater.
At the frequency of 220 Ghz, the 110 Ghz peak is is more than 10^3 times brighter than the background. Adding the extra 16 times; Comparing 110 Ghz and 220 Ghz would better than 40 db indication.

Did not realize, there is such a large difference when adding a few Kelvins.

karov · 2004-09-28 23:36:42

The TNOs` planetforming idea leads to another one, too.

We see that indeed the natural planetary formation is very mass-inefficient process. From 90 to 97% of the innitial planetesimal/cometary inventory entirelly leaves the systems during the inner planets accretion and gravity-assists migration. The simulations show that within the ecosphere usually ~10 earth-size bodies are formed - than the migrating inward gas-giants either destroy or swallow most of them, or eject them off system or sink them in the central star. Kuiper belts are the realm where the proximity of the planetsimals is not enough for them to coalesce in bigger units...

If in the next couple of millions of years, we have still kind of descendants which for one or other reason like the earth-like or generally human user-friendly worlds and the 'natural' gravitationally confined fusion as an energy sourse, than the next logical step for accomplishing artificial planetary formation, asside from the option to planetform the outer volumes of the mature star systems, is to INTERFERE in the natural planetary formation of younger ( just several millions of years old ) star systems...

The OC-planetforming gives us the opportunity to construct from dozens to hundreds of thousands new 'earths' in system, depending on the overall mass and population of the certain system`s cometary halo...

If we introduce such mode of planetary formation around younger stars, which avoids the losses - prevents gas giants formation ( or cathalizes pure hydrogen balls coalecence in order fuel to be stored), doesn`t allows the majority of matter to be ejected or sinked... Than such star captured in its very youth, can be tamed via star lifting or something else, and its vicinities to be populated exceptionally with its matter organized in earth-like ( or terraformed Mars- or Moon-size bodies)...

Potential for MILLIONS of planets per star!!!

The Sun contains as much as several thousands earth masses of astronomical metals, i.e. non-H/He matter, suitable for solid bodies construction, if these hypothetical planet-builders decide not only to interfere in the planetary formation in early stages` systems, but to innitiate artificially also the very begining the gas/dust cloud collapse for stellar formation, than in principle the application of certain mechanisms could distribute the matter in much more 'proper way' - stars of almost only H/He and the 'metals' for planet building.

Of course a tube-world dyson shell is much better in terms of constructional mass/ energy output capture than the planetforming, but the last makes worlds which need far less structural integrity maintenance, and many other advantages than the rotating mega-habs.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-03-01 07:26:10

2 Dwarf Planets Are Hiding Something Incredible Beyond Pluto’s Lonely Orbit
https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/ … uid-ocean/

Astronomers getting closer to working out where mysterious Planet Nine could be hiding
https://www.unilad.com/technology/space … 9-20240219
So that's eight in total (RIP Pluto), but there's a theory out there among astronomers

Pluto’s Neighborhood May Extend Billions of Miles Farther Into Space Than We Thought
https://gizmodo.com.au/2024/02/plutos-n … e-thought/

New observations of a disk of dust and gas circling a baby star have revealed a large amount of water vapor, at the exact location where baby planets might be starting to form.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVfPKdginYU

Calliban · 2024-03-03 17:30:57

Here is the Next Big Future article on the increased mass estimate of the Kuiper belt.
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2024/02/t … ptune.html

The large amounts of dust detected by New Horizons suggests that the belt extends further than previously thought. Previous estimates were for the belt to contain 100,000 objects in the 100+ km size range. New measurements may increase that estimate by a factor of 2 - 3. That would increase the mass of the belt from 1.5 lunar masses to 3 - 4.5 lunar masses. The high end estimate is almost half the mass of Mars.

Assuming we eventually succeed in mastering nuclear fusion, this is a huge number of worlds for humanity to play with. A huge amount of material for either building space habitats or converting into gravity bound water worlds. I am put in mind of the 'Swarm' on Love, Death and Robots.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZEk4eLNipE

This was a tightly integrated ecosystem that had evolved (somehow) on an asteroid. Humans invade the swarm and attempt to create copies of it for their own needs. Unfortunately, they awaken genetic protocols that work against them. Rather violently against them. But that is sci-fi, designed to be a dramatic story. Eventually I think human genetic engineers will create ecosystems on these little water worlds, that recycle nutrients over geologic timescales. All humans need do is provide and maintain the power source.

Each 100+ kilometer diameter body in the kuiper belt is seperated from its neighbours by about the same distance as Earth is from its moon, ~400,000km. But their distance from the sun varies from 30 to 90AU. We don't actually know how far the kuiper belt extends at present. But the point is that these would be ideal places for groups of people that wish to be left alone by the rest of humanity.

Ultimately, the population limit for any particular KBO, will be dictated by waste heat.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-03-03 18:06:11)

Void · 2024-03-03 21:12:26

That sounds pretty good Calliban. A people who adapted to that might be able to find stepping stones to travel to Proxima Centauri.

Dust Belts are believed to be around that star: https://www.universetoday.com/137783/pr … n-planets/

My guess on how solar systems work now is that perhaps a Heliopause may help catch cosmic dust into a solar system. If that were true, then worlds like Eris and MakeMake may have accumulated such over their lifetimes. In the case of those worlds, the dust might be pulled down to the core by plate tectonics. But for the smaller objects that you are interested in, the dust would simply accumulate with the condensation of gasses into ices, I think. Or ice particles and dust accumulations.

Once humans get beyond the heliopause, then they may be able to get free H3 and Deuterium from the interstellar medium. So, essentially a very long-term power supply, if they can fuse it. Where the solar wind may be depleted in those items the interstellar wind may have them.

So, going to Proxima may not involve a planet fall at first, but to find suitable objects of the type you like.

If we think there are large numbers of rogue planets Mars size and up, can there be even more small objects as rogues?

Quote Calliban:

Each 100+ kilometer diameter body in the kuiper belt is seperated from its neighbours by about the same distance as Earth is from its moon, ~400,000km.

What about rogue objects of such sizes as that? Maybe a bridge of islands is possible.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-03-03 21:29:38)

Calliban · 2024-03-04 08:00:56

I don't think anyone has a solid estimate for the density and size distribution of rogue objects yet. But I agree that hopping onto an object that is unbound, is a workable strategy for colonising other star systems.

One thing I realised when examining this option before, is that the mass of these bodies makes it impractical to detach an object that is already bound by the sun's gravity. With the same energy you could make a huge number of smaller faster starships. But there are objects already on interstellar trajectories. Those could provide a free ride. Finding one would be a challenge.

Of course, at typical relative velocities of the stars and interstellar wanderers, one would have to wait at least tens of thousands of years for a close approach between the rogue and a star system. Quite possibly, several million years. Then again, there is enough deuterium in most of these bodies to sustain an ecosystem for a billion years. A closed, self-sufficient little world could potentially survive that long, if its residents were patient enough. This really would be the ultimate generation ship. An ultra-slow, travelling planet. Such a world could be used to colonise hundreds of others before its fuel ran out.

Isaac Arthur calls this scenario as 'Crawlanising' the galaxy. I think it is a default interstellar colonisation strategy. If human beings never develop fast propulsion, but do eventually colonise the kuiper belt and Oort cloud, then eventually we will colonise an unbound object. This is the ultimate escape strategy for a group of humans that really do want to get away from the rest of humanity and aren't in any hurry to get anywhere in particular. Maybe some radical racial nationalists will attempt to do this in the far future.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-03-04 08:07:30)

Void · 2024-03-04 12:01:50

I can wonder if there could be a certain glow that might come off these objects if stimulated by cosmic rays? It would certainly be dim, but perhaps different enough from the background to detect somehow? For instance, Rogues without an atmosphere may be covered in Methane in some cases, but Rogues with an atmosphere are likely to show Hydrogen and Helium, which would blend in with the cosmic background, I expect.

Anyway, you did mention Isaac Arthur. He has a Laser Highway.
I guess we need some Clark Tech for that. https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ORM=VRDGAR Quote:

Interstellar Highways
YouTube
Isaac Arthur
451K views
Feb 23, 2017

This in itself is a bit of not quite Clark Teck.

And now we seem to be developing autonomous robots to ride ships of that type.

But we can see dust rings around Proxima Centauri. It may well have dwarf planets or smaller objects in it.
But to inhabit those places we will want fission and fusion, I think.

If there are say 10 times as many Dwarfs as what we call planets, and perhaps 100 to 1000 times as many Sub-Dwarfs, then at some point you do have to ask the questing "When does the human race and its machines, have enough stuff?

More questions and problems than answers and solutions, but not without hope.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-03-04 12:16:55)

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#1 2004-09-13 03:14:17

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#2 2004-09-13 04:42:31

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#3 2004-09-13 11:40:42

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#4 2004-09-13 13:50:55

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#5 2004-09-13 15:29:25

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#6 2004-09-13 16:41:07

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#7 2004-09-13 16:53:01

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#8 2004-09-13 19:41:34

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#9 2004-09-14 04:19:49

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#10 2004-09-14 09:00:48

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#11 2004-09-14 13:30:15

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#12 2004-09-21 19:12:35

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#13 2004-09-23 13:42:08

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#14 2004-09-27 01:37:25

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#15 2004-09-28 05:29:13

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#16 2004-09-28 23:36:42

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#17 2024-03-01 07:26:10

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#18 2024-03-03 17:30:57

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#19 2024-03-03 21:12:26

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#20 2024-03-04 08:00:56

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

#21 2024-03-04 12:01:50

Re: TNOs planetforming - coalescing the OO and KB mass

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