Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

Rxke · 2004-08-04 22:40:30

Thank you for pointing this out, Stephen!
I think *a lot* of people have been waiting for this to come on-line.

Atomoid: your comment 'bout the filters made me laugh quite hard, thanks.

Rxke · 2004-08-05 07:29:54

Meanwhile, the rovers start showing their age?

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mars-mer … SpaceDaily

Spirit has a stubborn FPGA, but mission control says it might be a non-issue;
Oportunity might have problems with flexible cable wearing out, wich might be more serious...

Palomar · 2004-08-05 07:47:16

Meanwhile, the rovers start showing their age?
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mars-mer … SpaceDaily
Spirit has a stubborn FPGA, but mission control says it might be a non-issue;
Oportunity might have problems with flexible cable wearing out, wich might be more serious...

*Mmmmm, yeah saw that at space.com. Both are sending repeated error messages and they're being super careful with Oppy's "arm."

Just when I was (earlier today) wondering if we'd ever get an "upclose and personal" pic of a dust devil, this news.

Can't help wondering especially now which one of our MERs is going to kick the bucket first. :-\

--Cindy

dicktice · 2004-08-05 18:50:16

Re the slope of the paths taken: It just came to me that the one-third gravity makes our notion of perceived "steepness" unrealistic, on Mars. Has this been discussed, anyone?

Palomar · 2004-08-05 20:41:21

Re the slope of the paths taken: It just came to me that the one-third gravity makes our notion of perceived "steepness" unrealistic, on Mars. Has this been discussed, anyone?

*It takes an engineer... :laugh:

Just kidding.

It's not been discussed that I recall (and there's been so much to keep track of...but I'm not complaining). Interesting you mention it, though.

Stu: GORGEOUS new pic...
http://mer.rlproject.com/index.p....id= … ...id=1483

*I had a dream about that image a few nights ago. Except it was more Earth-like, i.e. covered with vegetation. It's one of the very few Mars images which has appeared in my dreams. :hm:

--Cindy

atomoid · 2004-08-05 21:05:04

Re the slope of the paths taken: It just came to me that the one-third gravity makes our notion of perceived "steepness" unrealistic, on Mars. Has this been discussed, anyone?

Haven't heard anything about this really, my thoughts are that the low gravity might not pack the soils as densely, thereby making the soils fluff away from under the wheels, the rover pretty much spinning the rug out from under it as it did trying to get out of Eagle crater, maybe cancelling out any such low gravity advantage...

There is bound to be some "sweet spot" where the weight of the rover helps the wheels track better on the varying type of soils below it. As the rover encounters an incline, if its too light the wheels cant get a bite and spin atop rolling grains, too heavy and the wheels just plow and bog down. I wonder if we're close to that in the MERs? i'm not sure how much the MERs weigh, but i remember reading in some other thread somewhere that the surface area of the wheels is less than desireable for the rover weight since they had to be small enough to fit inside the landing package (i guess it would be too unreliabile to consider some sort of mechanical doo-hickey expanding wheel design to get more surface area after landing).

any soils specialists out there?

atomoid · 2004-08-05 21:20:06

You can see in context where Spirit ascended the hill and where it is now by looking at http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/collection … 7.jpg]this GORGEOUS old mosaic of the same hilltop from farther away. the distinct features on the peak match up quite well (though from a different perspective) with those of that "http://mer.rlproject.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1483]GORGEOUS new pic".

Though I'm still having trouble pinpointing exactly where the "pot o gold" was in this image, somewhere near the base... but where?

Stephen · 2004-08-06 03:05:34

For those who are interested, the August 2004 edition of the journal _Science_ is out (albeit you probably won't find it on newstands). It is (largely) devoted to papers on Spirit's first 90 sols at Gusev crater.

For those with access (dunno how much can be viewed by those without), the issue is also available online at:

http://www.sciencemag.org]http://www.sciencemag.org

Stephen · 2004-08-06 03:32:10

An addendum to the above post of mine:

A couple of (inter-related) comments made (in passing) in the _Science_ papers (the one by Squyres et al) are worth mentioning here: "Mini-TES emissivity spectra show that the dust cover rather closely mimics the typical dust spectrum retrieved from Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) TES data" and the "composition of Gusev soils determined from Spirit APXS data is similar to the composition determined from measurements at the Pathfinder and Viking sites, consistent with homogenization of soils by wind on regional and global scales."

Which I guess amounts to this: orbital spectral data will be of limited use in determining & mapping the mineralogy of Mars unless it can penetrate the "crud" blanketing Mars.

Which in turn would seem to offer a potential argument for emphasizing rovers & other landers over orbiters in future exploration of the red planet.

Rxke · 2004-08-06 03:41:23

Good point, just look at the RAT images, only a few millimeters of RATting unveils a totally different composition.

I sure hope, when/if they decide to actually do the 'hibernation' thing with the rovers, they do some RATs in the vincinity, image it, and then, after waking up, do a re-imaging of same spots. Could give tons of info re: dust accumulation/UV reactions/weathering to freshly uncovered surfaces. This could give an idea of the speed of interactions of the soil with the atmosphere.

atomoid · 2004-08-06 18:17:12

I sure hope, when/if they decide to actually do the 'hibernation' thing with the rovers, they do some RATs in the vincinity, image it, and then, after waking up, do a re-imaging of same spots. Could give tons of info re: dust accumulation/UV reactions/weathering to freshly uncovered surfaces. This could give an idea of the speed of interactions of the soil with the atmosphere.

Great idea, i hope NASA is thinking the same thing. But on the flip side, I hope they dont really go into "full" hibernation but instead use a little power (if any can be budgeted) each day to advance a few easy meters, so we can edge towards the etched terrain and cut weeks off the time needed to make up that difference when they do decide to wake them up. After all, it might be best to keep the parts moving, lest they seize up just sitting there...

About dust accumulation, aside from shaking the dust off of itself as it bumps along, the rover itself should be a good experiement of that. Its actually difficult to see from the images how much dust there is since exposure differences between the images tend to mimic just what dust build up would tend to look like anyway, but i think i see some http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2N1446 … noticeable dust accumulation in this picture from sol 206 that doesnt seem to be there in http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2N1324 … .html]this old picture of the same solar panels from sol 69. most notably the shading across areas of the panels seems to suggest signifficant dust build up. These are both taken from the same filterless navcam so only atmospheric/sun angle/exposure differences exist. It does look like at least http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2N1446 … PG.html]in this image from sol 206 that dust is accumulating more heavily on the outside edge of the rear panel, perhaps the wheels tend to kick it up in a way so more settles here.

Now, if you could only reach out across the millions of miles with a finger and scribble "wash me"!

Palomar · 2004-08-07 06:08:08

Endurances]http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=13597]Endurance's "Dazzling Dunes"

*Beautiful! Approximate true-color image. "Sinuous tendrils of sand less than 1 meter (3.3 feet) high extend from the main dune field toward the rover..."

--Cindy

GJG · 2004-08-09 15:30:43

After weeks of boring in "Styrofoam" it looks like Oppie may have uncovered a clue as to its composition. Three views of the same uncrusted mini-spherule:

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opport … ...2M1.JPG

Seeing this in context makes all of the stuff around it look like "cemented" mini-spherules -- pretty tough bond if this is the only one cleaned -- larger one cut in place earlier!? Hematite locked in Salts??

Greg

GJG · 2004-08-09 15:39:46

Looks like Oppie has turned downhill from a traverse and is now again headed deeper. Last in most recent foward Hazcam images:

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opport … ...0M1.JPG

Greg

GJG · 2004-08-09 16:01:05

Several good shots of the Columbia Hills available on exploratorium now - still no look down to the cave - the NASA team is incredably patient.

This shot makes it look like driving across the saddle into the Hills may be an option or even driving down toward the cave may??? be possible?:

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit … ...0M1.JPG

All may have to wait until Spring to get good sun orientation and avoid early/late shaddowing.

Greg

atomoid · 2004-08-09 18:06:23

This shot makes it look like driving across the saddle into the Hills may be an option or even driving down toward the cave may??? be possible?
...the stuff around it look like "cemented" mini-spherules

Not sure what you mean by "cave"... did I miss someting, or is it one of those dark shadowed areas in http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/figure … 2.jpg]this MGS image?

That styrofoam is perplexing... I hadnt thought it be any kind of concretions at all, but more like like powdery tuff that is too loose to leave a surface behind. There should at least be some sort of flat surface left by the drill, right? but instead it looks like weve just blown away powder and revealed a hard and undulating undersurface that actually looks untouched by the drill bit. so whats the deal with that bumpy "undrilled" appearance? Is the styrofoamy]http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/micro_imager/2004-08-09/1M144517819EFF3370P2977M2M1.JPG]"styrofoamy" drilled surface were seeing is that way due to the lack of any cohesion to leave a smooth surface but instead just flakes and powders away, kicking out material below that of the drill bit so it leaves a surface that at least reveals the nature of the loosely packed clumped bumpy aggregate beneath the scouring done by the drill bit itself. If you could press your finger into it, would it deform as easily as dried silt?

Shaun Barrett · 2004-08-09 18:06:33

Does anyone happen to know of a good picture of the 'cave'? I don't remember seeing one.
???

Rxke · 2004-08-09 19:30:09

The 'cave' (between brackets, because it's just a theory...)

is being investigated by non-NASA people... I posted a topic about this, wait...

Rxke · 2004-08-09 19:35:43

Ah. http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2350]here

the site is mainly about water on Mars, but if you scroll down, it's about the 'cave' Be sure to visit the mentioned links, too...

atomoid · 2004-08-10 03:10:39

http://www.tobescene.com/Misc/Mars/Ultr … ph.jpg]the cave, which does almost look like a sinkhole or something, is just one of several enigmatic dark areas in the Columbia hills. The other dark areas in the image, especially at the http://marsoweb.nas.nasa.gov/landingsit … tml]bottom of this part of http://marsoweb.nas.nasa.gov/landingsit … 00012.jpg] the big image with the apparently dust-devil-induced dark streak going off to the right looks even more interesting. Im hoping spirit will be able to see it once it rounds the top of the http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/figure … pg]western spur and gets on the saddle, pilgrim.

Some kind of ore outcrop? the dark ore powder being spread around by winds and dust devils pulling dark streaks of it. The interiors of many craters look similarly dark as well, lets hope they're not all just dark basalt sand caches. Maybe they are ancient meteor puncture wounds bleeding eroded meteor ore remnants, or brine-geyser chemical weathering evidence...

Rxke · 2004-08-10 05:15:07

another good pic (it's also on the site, BTW...) where the dark streak is even more impressive... It has a good 'route-plan' for Spirit, and some landmarks, too..

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … 1.jpg]NASA

Anyhow, not so sure about the whole cave thing, there are similar spots all around... Just shadows?

Shaun Barrett · 2004-08-10 07:34:59

Thanks, guys! "Ultreya Abyss", eh? Exotic stuff!
:up:

GJG · 2004-08-10 11:19:52

Atomoid, please forgive my sloppy terminology (cave) -- You and Rxke figured it out right. I was specifically refering to the largest (closest to NASA's "Lookout Point) of three, or more, of the dark spots in the coliumbia hills immediately east and southeast of Spirit's location.

I am not a geologist but I had "imagined" these to be "caves" -- possibly puntched by a group of meteorite fragments, at a low impact angle, long ago and also possibly serving as "springs" sourced by some kind of water seepage from the hills.

Regarding my speculation on the "Styrofoam looking" material in Oppie's latest grinding holes on the other side of Mars, the newly revealed shinney "ball" that I cited above makes it look (to me) like a soft "concrete like" material with a soft but strongly adhesive matrix material and hard small "Aggrigate" balls. This would explain the inability to hold the balls for grinding in place (or even cleaning except for the one seen) and the resultant breaking out in chunks bounded by weak areas of lower "Aggrigate" density. Once I saw one well defined ball, I saw (or imagined) them everywhere (same size) embeded in the remaining matrix. The pulverized grindings outside the holes also appear to reveal the same balls, in the powder, but still thinly coated with the matrix material. Remember also that in one of the earlier shallow grindings, the matrix was able to hold one of the larger "Hematite" spherules for grinding near the surface.

You asked: "Could I push my finger in it". Probably not. It appears to have decent compression strength (supports Opie's weight pretty well) but quite low tensile strength (lots of cracks in situ and the slabs powder where Oppie's wheels spin, slip or roll over the edge of cracks inducing shear and tensile loads.

All of this is, of course, just a lot of uneducated speculation. Even so, NASA has been very quiet on the subject and I sure would like to hear some educated speculation. What happened to all of the great NASA news conferences on NASA TV?!!

Greg

Stu · 2004-08-10 15:08:53

Could this be the best photo of the Martian landscape ever taken..?

http://mer.rlproject.com/index.php?show … ...try1536

Wow... bet that's your new wallpaper Cindy...

Rxke · 2004-08-10 15:21:36

Speechless...

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#126 2004-08-04 22:40:30

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#127 2004-08-05 07:29:54

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#128 2004-08-05 07:47:16

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#129 2004-08-05 18:50:16

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#130 2004-08-05 20:41:21

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#131 2004-08-05 21:05:04

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#132 2004-08-05 21:20:06

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#133 2004-08-06 03:05:34

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#134 2004-08-06 03:32:10

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#135 2004-08-06 03:41:23

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#136 2004-08-06 18:17:12

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#137 2004-08-07 06:08:08

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#138 2004-08-09 15:30:43

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#139 2004-08-09 15:39:46

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#140 2004-08-09 16:01:05

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#141 2004-08-09 18:06:23

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#142 2004-08-09 18:06:33

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#143 2004-08-09 19:30:09

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#144 2004-08-09 19:35:43

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#145 2004-08-10 03:10:39

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#146 2004-08-10 05:15:07

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#147 2004-08-10 07:34:59

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#148 2004-08-10 11:19:52

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#149 2004-08-10 15:08:53

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

#150 2004-08-10 15:21:36

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *7* - ...continuing...

Board footer

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 7 - ...continuing...