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#1 2004-07-24 06:51:23

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: SETI 2020

[color=#8D38C9:post_uid9]Optimistic report

*Predicting between 10,000 to 1 million radio transmitters throughout the galaxy.  Predicting, with increased computational power and radio telescopy technology, first proof of alien life in the Milky Way will occur in the 2020s. 

--Cindy[/color:post_uid9]


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#2 2004-07-24 13:15:15

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: SETI 2020

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I stopped using Seti@home, not because i didn't find anything  big_smile , but because of the waste.

The idea was brilliant, initially, using your computer's wasted cycles: instead of drawing pretty, but totally useless screensavers, it actually does something constructive. And before people start yelling seti-searching is nonsense, the data has been used for other things, already...
BUT: today, 99% of the computers have energy-saving technology: automatically going into a 'sleep' mode, swithching off the monitor etc. So screensavers are becoming even more useless, and, frankly: i can't defend running Seti@home anymore, the electricity-costs, multiplied over all the users are just not right. Better to let your computer go into low-energy mode when you don't use it, IMO. We're already using enough petrol as it is.

OTOH, running seti in the *background*, when you're pecking away at a Word-document anyway, would make more sense, IMO.
We're using freaking super-computers to type resumés, what a waste! roll[/color:post_uid0]


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#3 2004-07-31 19:17:50

Gennaro
Member
From: Eta Cassiopeiae (no, Sweden re
Registered: 2003-03-25
Posts: 591

Re: SETI 2020

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I have ambigious feelings about SETI, SERENDRIP etc. So we listen and listen to thousands of stars and no one is interested in sending us a signal? At least not within the microwave band. Let's hope that's the reason. :hm:

To get a return call our radio transmissions have reached a range of some 50 lightyears, but no one's ringing back. sad
I most certainly hope there is someone within that reach. Maybe Zoo Earth isn't such a bad hypothesis after all? I mean what would we actually do with a stone age civilization/highly intelligent potential fauna anyway? Perhaps precisely study it from a distance in order not to destroy it?

But we're no longer a stone age society in any case.

WHERE ARE THEY? :bars:[/color:post_uid0]

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#4 2004-08-01 09:08:28

Morris
Member
From: Little Rock, Arkansas
Registered: 2004-07-16
Posts: 218

Re: SETI 2020

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

OTOH, running seti in the *background*, when you're pecking away at a Word-document anyway, would make more sense, IMO.
[/quote:post_uid0]

Yes, that's the nice thing about it. You deselect the screensaver and go to an energy saving mode while still having it run in the background while the machine is being used. Or, go "whole hog" and have it run all the time.

At least not within the microwave band. Let's hope that's the reason.
[/quote:post_uid0]

Yes, selecting the right listening frequency is always a big thing. It is certainly reasonable to expect that anyone, not knowing that we are here, would try to communicate on some universal scientifically important frequency such as that of interstellar hydrogen. But the other possibilities relate to them simply using rf for their own purposes and us trying to detect it.

Then a whole new range of possibilities opens up, but also a huge increase in expense to do the kinds of detailed analysis being done on the currently explored frequencies.

Of course, if somebody is trying, in a relatively primitive way, to contact us on the same frequencies they heard us on then we may really be looking in the wrong place. And the signals would be so weak that it would be rare that they would cause significant interference and thus be noticed.[/color:post_uid0]

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#5 2004-08-03 01:26:37

Euler
Member
From: Corvallis, OR
Registered: 2003-02-06
Posts: 922

Re: SETI 2020

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

But the other possibilities relate to them simply using rf for their own purposes and us trying to detect it.

Then a whole new range of possibilities opens up, but also a huge increase in expense to do the kinds of detailed analysis being done on the currently explored frequencies.

Of course, if somebody is trying, in a relatively primitive way, to contact us on the same frequencies they heard us on then we may really be looking in the wrong place. And the signals would be so weak that it would be rare that they would cause significant interference and thus be noticed. [/quote:post_uid0]

I am not an expert on SETI, but I have read some sources that claim that we would not be able to detect a civilization like Earth that is broadcasting omnidirectually, even if it was only a few light years away.  If this is true, then it is unlikely that we will be able to detect a signal unless it is a narrow beam signal aimed at us.  Conversely, the aliens would likely not be able to detect the radio emissions from Earth either.  Basically, we shouldn't be too surprised that we haven't found anything yet, because we would only be able to detect an intentional attempt at communication(and we might not be able to detect that either), and they probably would not know that there is someone here to communicate with unless they have sent probes here recently.[/color:post_uid0]

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#6 2004-08-03 06:08:26

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: SETI 2020

[color=#8D38C9:post_uid4]*Actually I'm skeptical (and always have been) that SETI will ever discover an alien signal.

But I wouldn't shut the program down. 

--Cindy[/color:post_uid4]


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#7 2004-08-03 06:44:37

oscar
Member
Registered: 2004-07-18
Posts: 62

Re: SETI 2020

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#8 2004-08-03 06:49:23

oscar
Member
Registered: 2004-07-18
Posts: 62

Re: SETI 2020

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Sorry, I mispelled one link. It's this:

http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/ETyes.html

:rant: .....>        <...... yikes[/color:post_uid0]

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#9 2004-08-03 07:08:39

oscar
Member
Registered: 2004-07-18
Posts: 62

Re: SETI 2020

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Of course you can choose the option of an empty universe:

http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/ETno.html

But then again if there is alien intelligence, can you imagine a being so smart that to explain the easier code for them we would need to understand the Theory Of Everything, TOE? Yes, I have to say ancient civilizations have these codes that linked many fields of science, including cryptographic zoo-anthropomorphous images in stones, that became alive in specific times of the day and month and years. The communication already exists for thousands of years, what we have is Western civilization just re-learning how to use the ancient procedures.
Now, if a fractal image in fields of wheat are not done by some old ignorant peasents or farmers don't constitute a message, what do you expect?
Yap, I know, don't have to tell me. You'll have to wait until one of the members among your relatives record something odd in the home video-tape to be one more among thousands of people having the experience. Even if you eliminate the hoaxes, you still have a bunch of material including pilots, astronauts and technicians who can well notice the difference between aerostatic baloon, effects of light, etc.
What happens, here is some people want the communication to be done HOW THEY WANT THEM, WHENEVER THEY WANT THEM and with their beloved methods. That's ridiculous and spoil attitude.
Now, as I explained in the issue about Cydonia, we don't have to believe this is Sitchin or Däniken or Benítez's vision.[/color:post_uid0]

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#10 2004-08-04 10:56:30

Morris
Member
From: Little Rock, Arkansas
Registered: 2004-07-16
Posts: 218

Re: SETI 2020

[color=#000000:post_uid0].[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]

Yes, I have to say ancient civilizations have these codes that linked many fields of science, including cryptographic zoo-anthropomorphous images in stones, that became alive in specific times of the day and month and years. [/quote:post_uid0]

Fascinating. Who has docmented these zoo-anthropomorphous images. Most especially, who has seen them "become alive". Shades of 2001: A Space Odyssey. Wouldn't it be incredible if actually true.

I take it the Clifford Algebras form the basis for encryption. What provides the basis for them coming alive?

Now, if a fractal image in fields of wheat are not done by some old ignorant peasents or farmers don't constitute a message, what do you expect?
[/quote:post_uid0]

Do you have some of these photos available by web link? If so, URL please. Real fractals, right?[/color:post_uid0]

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#11 2004-08-05 02:53:48

oscar
Member
Registered: 2004-07-18
Posts: 62

Re: SETI 2020

[color=#000000:post_uid0]http://www.xpeditionsmagazine.com/magaz … huasi.html
http://www.lonewolfaldventure.com/marca … lbum2.html
http://www.lonewolfadventure.com/marcah … lbum3.html
http://www.lonewolfadventure.com/marcah … index.html
http://www.greatdreams.com/gem2.htm
http://labyrinthina.com/marcahua.htm
http://anthroarcheart.org/chullpas.htm
http://www.enterprisemission.com/ArtTrad.html
http://www.labyrinthina.com/marcahua.htm
Now, the web is filled with images about the wheat fields, I think you can do homework. These are just images and some math regarding the place. Now, unfortunately you have to be there and check for yourself. The same happened with me when I was in Egypt. The photos of all books and magazines deceive you in the sense of size and distance. Looking at them you believe sphinx is just "close" in front of the Great Pyramid but what happens is Great Pyramid is so huge that it gives that impression. There's a regular distance between them and the guardian cherub-sphinx.[/color:post_uid0]

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#12 2004-08-05 11:49:29

Morris
Member
From: Little Rock, Arkansas
Registered: 2004-07-16
Posts: 218

Re: SETI 2020

[/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]Oscar,

Thanks for the info.

Now, the web is filled with images about the wheat fields, I think you can do homework.[/quote:post_uid0]

Well, yes. But until your post, the only thoughts I had about patterns in wheatfields was the casual observation that lots of them are awfully pretty. I don't recall ever seeing one that struck me as being a fractal, not that I would necessarily know. I wasn't even sure that you were referring to the popularized set of wheatfield observations.

These are just images and some math regarding the place. Now, unfortunately you have to be there and check for yourself.[/quote:post_uid0]

Why am I not surprised? Of course, there has been a lot of math about the Sphinx, pyramids, etc. for years. Wasn't there something years ago about orienting razor blades the right way in pyramids and they become self-sharpening? I am really hoping that this is different.[/color:post_uid0]

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#13 2004-08-06 06:37:03

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: SETI 2020

[color=#8D38C9:post_uid4]*Thought I'd pop this in here rather than create a new thread.  Besides, SETI will undoubtedly be part of the program.  smile  CNN special:

"TV Special Focuses on Extraterrestrial Life

Whether it’s from the arid Atacama Desert of Chile, boiling springs of Yellowstone National Park, or astronomers scoping the skies for Earth-like worlds – there is a steady drumbeat of discovery underway in the search for extraterrestrial life.

On Sunday, Aug. 8 at 8 p.m. and 11 p.m. Eastern Time (5 and 8 p.m. Pacific), 'Is Anybody Out There? The Search for Life in the Universe' will air on CNN/US.

The CNN Presents broadcast takes a look at a trio of research findings that bolster the case for life beyond Earth: A once warm and wet Mars; an ever-growing catalog of distant worlds circling other stars; and uncovering biology in the most unlikely of places right here on home planet Earth.

'For those who are leading the hunt, these are dramatic developments that suggest the discovery of some form of life out in the universe could be just around the corner,' explains Miles O’Brien, CNN’s space correspondent and anchor of the show.

The program is scheduled to re-air on Saturday, August 14 at 8 p.m. and 11 p.m. ET – not Extraterrestrial Time, but Eastern Time."

*I'm going to try and catch this. 

--Cindy[/color:post_uid4]


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#14 2004-08-07 23:42:50

Mad Grad Student
Member
From: Phoenix, Arizona, North Americ
Registered: 2003-11-09
Posts: 498
Website

Re: SETI 2020

[color=#000000:post_uid0]SETI won't find anybody by 2020 simply because there's no one there. Well, no one else in the Milky Way anyways. Unfotunately, while we'd like to pretend that astrobiologists are, as the name implies, equal parts astronomer and biologist, it's never that clear-cut. The vast majority of them are experts on astronomy but have only rudimentary knowledge of biology. Civilization is by far NOT a natural outcome of natural selection that will occur in every example. Cockroaches have done just fine without it and they are among the most succesful species on the planet. The chain of events that lead to Einstein, Mozart, and Osama Bin Laden were very specific and didn't have to happen. IMHO it's very unlikely that there is anyone else out there in the via lactera. Maybe that's a good thing, we get the whole joint to ourselves. But it sure is lonely living alone.

Then again, even if there are civilizations out there who's to say they'll be convienently broadcasting in the frequencies we're looking for? ???[/color:post_uid0]


A mind is like a parachute- it works best when open.

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#15 2004-08-08 01:23:02

Gennaro
Member
From: Eta Cassiopeiae (no, Sweden re
Registered: 2003-03-25
Posts: 591

Re: SETI 2020

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I'll try and lighten up the gloom.

Fact is brains have increased in volume almost incrementally throughout evolution when you look at the big picture. Species have become more complex throughout. There is definitely a trend here and I see no reason why it shouldn't be the same everywhere else.
Just give it time and it will happen.

I'm just concerned we aren't picking up any signals.[/color:post_uid0]

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#16 2004-08-08 04:30:31

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: SETI 2020

[color=#000000:post_uid0]We barely started looking. And it's a 'directional' search, so at the time we're listening to spot X, aliens might be saying hello from spot Y....[/color:post_uid0]


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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