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#1 2004-08-03 23:09:43

Dook
Banned
From: USA
Registered: 2004-01-09
Posts: 1,409

Re: Terraformation Timeline

I know we can do it quicker but it's obvious that no one with real power is in a hurry to do so. Here's my estimate:

2030 first mars landing
2030-2045 series of landings at different sites on mars
2045-2055 first dome or some type of habitat goes up somewhere and scientists begin living on mars for longer periods-1yr+
2055-2075 additional domes support manned exploration covering almost the entire surface of mars
2075-2100 first terraformation equipment goes into operation (mirror or greenhouse gas emitters or combination of both)
2150-2175 sufficient atmosphere of carbon dioxide
2175 first genetically altered earth plants are placed on mars
3000 breathable air

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#2 2004-08-04 08:49:29

MarsDog
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From: vancouver canada
Registered: 2004-03-24
Posts: 852

Re: Terraformation Timeline

Earth like conditions are difficult to produce on a planetary scale.  Easiest, self sufficient, colonies in the solar system will be on Mars. The colonists will want quick results.
-
The breathable air will be a result of importing Hydrogen from the gas giant planets.  Poisonous concentrations of CO2, replaced with lakes.

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#3 2004-08-04 09:35:34

Dook
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From: USA
Registered: 2004-01-09
Posts: 1,409

Re: Terraformation Timeline

Importing gas from gas giants?  That's virtually impossible.

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#4 2004-08-04 19:07:49

MarsDog
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From: vancouver canada
Registered: 2004-03-24
Posts: 852

Re: Terraformation Timeline

How ?
Asteroid in a http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/p … ml]shuttle orbit between Jupiter and Mars, similar in concept to the proposed method of moving the Earth away from the Sun. Except, in the Mars case, the orbital corrections would largely come from the drag encountered while scooping the gas.

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#5 2004-08-04 19:42:35

Dook
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From: USA
Registered: 2004-01-09
Posts: 1,409

Re: Terraformation Timeline

I do not see how your link, something about moving asteriods, supports your claim that an atmosphere on mars would be created by importing hydrogen from the gas giants.

It would be very difficult to take a craft into the atmosphere of Jupiter, collect hydrogen, then escape it's gravity well with a heavier spacecraft.  Actually, it might be easier to do it by taking the atmosphere from Venus.  Also considering the distances involved and the relatively small amount delivered (how large of a ship can you build?) it would take hundreds of years just to get above a negligible amount.

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#6 2004-08-04 19:49:20

MarsDog
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From: vancouver canada
Registered: 2004-03-24
Posts: 852

Re: Terraformation Timeline

The asteroid would provide the transport for the scooped up gas.
The scoop could be at the end of a long cable.

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#7 2004-08-04 22:31:24

Dook
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From: USA
Registered: 2004-01-09
Posts: 1,409

Re: Terraformation Timeline

Your explanations are so short that it leaves a lot to the imagination. 

Okay, so for this to work we have to send out some kind of probe that finds an asteroid, attaches itself to it, deploys this scoop on a cable thing, then directs this asteroid into the atmosphere of Jupiter where it circles the planet and then somehow escapes the huge gravity well.  The hydrogen stays in this scoop as the asteroid makes it's way to mars where, somehow, the scoop tosses or drops the hydrogen off to be collected by the gravity of mars.  The asteroid continues it's journey back to Jupiter and so on. 

Hmm.  Why even have the asteroid?  Why not just some kind of craft shaped like a hollow snake with a scoop at the front?  As it moves into the upper atmosphere of Jupiter it would compress the hydrogen, then a cone shaped door could close on the front and hold it all as it makes it's way to mars.  Still, on a planetary scale this would provide such a small amount that it wouldn't be effective.  Also, most of the trips would take several earth years.  When Mars and Jupiter are close it wouldn't but that would be a rarity.

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#8 2004-08-05 06:20:01

MarsDog
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From: vancouver canada
Registered: 2004-03-24
Posts: 852

Re: Terraformation Timeline

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/internat … .html]Nasa aims to move Earth
http://www.disasterrelief.org/Disasters … stronomers Propose to Move Earth Away
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/space/02/0 … stronomers hatch plan

Orbital corrections of the shuttle asteroid can be made through the momentum loss of scooping the gas. Free energy ride back and forth, if the scooping and dumping of Hydrogen can be figured out.
-
There are necessities and luxuries.
Caves and greenhouses on Mars will be easy, in a few decades.
Another Earth style Utopia is very far away.

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#9 2004-08-06 11:12:11

Dook
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From: USA
Registered: 2004-01-09
Posts: 1,409

Re: Terraformation Timeline

Actually involving an asteroid would use more energy and cost much more because you have to build a probe to go to it and change it's orbit as well as deploy the scoop thing.  Then the probe has to use energy, a lot of energy, to get the asteroid out of Jupiter's gravity well each time.

The snake ship would do more and be cheaper.

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#10 2004-08-07 01:54:14

MarsDog
Member
From: vancouver canada
Registered: 2004-03-24
Posts: 852

Re: Terraformation Timeline

I was incorrect. http://www.geocities.com/p.black/Cycler … tml]Cycler orbit is what I meant.

http://www.engology.com/articlemars.htm]Another link

The cycler craft would eject a scoop and pick it up after it skips off Jupiter's atmosphere.

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#11 2004-08-07 11:25:57

karov
Member
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2004-06-03
Posts: 953

Re: Terraformation Timeline

Interplanetary import/export of chemicals is unavoidable for terraforming of any astrnomical body. In the most cases the necesarry volatiles are present en situ, but often it would be much more cheaper the water, hydrogen, CO2 or else to be imported or exported.

Hydrogen from the gas giants is plausible, but the Kuiper belt`s >100 000 bodies with linear size >100 km are more competitive as sourse of hydrogen, having in mind the depth of the gas giant`s gravity wells. This big gravity obstacle is countermaesured by the presence of many moons in their planetary systems. Reorbiting a modest sized moon lower could be utilized for trading the momentum for mining of hydrogen or better amonia from the giant, which inclides also the quite valuable nitrogen. Say the simplest scheme - without massive atmosphere dipping orbital rings or static or rotating orbital elevators-- bore a tunel through jovian Amalthea allong the line of it orbital path. Accelerate tankers to graze the atmosphere and to fill up, decelerating slightly during the upload and receiving an orbit to be catched back by the tunnel. Process the stuff, pack it and send it via the tunnel`s rail-gun towards the clients in the inner system. The whole instalation is powered by electromagnetical tether pointed toward the planetcapturing enormous electrical power due to the huge radiation belts of Jupiter. The shear effect will be incremental lowering of the Amalthea`s orbit which velocity will be traded for escape one of the interplanetary tankers. The tankers could be manifactured by the moon`s local materials in absolutelly automatical serial manner for several 'cents' each and to destroy themselves in delivery at destination. The lunar accelerator even shouldn`t fire them with dozens of km/s to escape the jovian gravity well, but simply to slightly higher orbit where they to utilize the radiation belts charged particles beams or solar photons to gradually after hundreds of orbits to go out in the solar sphere of gravitational dominance and to head on to the destination... The giant planets` moons are mostly made of water ice - so imagine orbital elevators protruding much higher than the planet-moon L2. At the end,as  distant as allowed from the structural strtenght of the materials, only the orbital rotational momentum in most cases will be enough the chunks of ice to obtain the escape velocity from the giant`s sphere of influence. The cargo will consume electricity while climbing to L2, but will release more back - for ice cuting, packing, loading and lifting - when sliding down in the portion of the elevator beyond the L2 point. Again the orbit of the consumed satelite becomes with lesser radius traded to the speeded up water cargo. Even the biggest Gallileans could be syphoned in such way - without rockets, rail-guns, etc. additive involving of non-mechanical power.

A super-heavy cargo cycler asteroid is described in KSR`s "Icehendge". Such interorbital indeed could move with higher than the cometary speeds, just redirecting time and again via gravity assists with different planets ( and the Sun!). Such flying mini-world could criss-cross the entire system in mere months, on scedule between the giants and the inner rockies. The cargo should catch up with its velocvity of dozens of km/s, but just on a first glance -- if the rotating (hollowed) asteroid nucley is 'crowned' with thousands of km long cables and the rotation pla

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#12 2004-08-07 11:37:43

karov
Member
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2004-06-03
Posts: 953

Re: Terraformation Timeline

ne coincides with the orbital plane, than some portions of the cable will move with almost zero speed according to the difference between the speed of the incoming in the gravitational sphere of some planet cycler and the orbiting around it cargo... The spikes rotating in direction of flight will express higher, these on the opposite course - lower speed. There are points allong the cables where the speeds mach exactly eachother, and the shuttles simply dock to the cable joints, to be dragged afterwards in the main body of the cycler.

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#13 2004-08-07 19:05:57

~Eternal~
Member
Registered: 2003-09-25
Posts: 211

Re: Terraformation Timeline

2035 First Landing
2035-2045 Exploration
2045 First Settlement
2045-2055 Additional colonization
2055 Terraforming begins
2065 Algae and lichen abudnantly present
2100 Significant heating by PFC's and systematic solettas
2165 Plants abundantly present
2200 CO2 tolerant animals (Insects Dominantly)
2250 Humans active on surface with CO2 mask
2300 Reptiles, Insects, Fish actively present on Maritan surface
2350 Humans active on surface do to genetic modification
2400 Mammals active on surface
2450 Humans and Birds active on Mars
2600 Terraforming complete.


The MiniTruth passed its first act #001, comname: PATRIOT ACT on  October 26, 2001.

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#14 2004-08-07 20:42:14

MarsDog
Member
From: vancouver canada
Registered: 2004-03-24
Posts: 852

Re: Terraformation Timeline

The first step needs to be a regular bus schedule to Mars.
Then colonization becomes easier.

http://www.boilerstation.com/planet/sto … html]James Longuski, a professor of aeronautics and astronautics at Purdue, agrees that it doesn't make sense to land the first people on Mars without knowing how to land more.

http://www.esa.int/gsp/ACT/ACT_Web/Subj … CT.htm]ESA Cycler Orbit Page

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