Business Community and Space - Bring the Business into the Space Race

smurf975 · 2004-07-22 12:27:00

Space robots definatly are a ways from repair of componets, particularly electronic ones. This would require at the very least a major leap in robotics and a large supply of spare parts or stock to make them from, which gets heavy. It isn't practical to make spare parts in space yet except simple mechanical ones out of hard plastic.

Don't forget you had effective machines without electronics and plastics. For example use pressure valves instead of electronics for simple logic (like old pre-electronics machines).

And the parts that will break the most are the mechanical ones, electronic parts can last 20 years. So a huge supply of parts is not needed. And besides its possible with 1980ies technology to build simple electronics in space.

And LEO-to-surface vehicles will, for the forseeable future, have to built on Earth. A reuseable rocket like DC-X makes some sense here if your operation is large, or throw-away inflatable heat shields for small occasional loads (if the ESA can perfect them).

Personally I was thinking more in the lines of cargo shaped as a lifting body (controlled crashes) or even using something like a blimp.

100% automation isn't practical yet, computers are not smart enough or wise enough to do everything completly without human help. Though teleoperated-assistance/oversight is practical.

I agree with this point as if you just look at the results of the Grand Darpa Challenge, you will see that AI's are still pretty much bad.

RobertDyck · 2004-07-22 12:34:45

2. Automation and robots to function as a front-end-loader, truck, grinder, conveyor belt, or vacuum cleaner is possible with today's technology. We could enclose the mine face with a bag and use an air stream to blow bits into an augur. C-type asteroids and dead comets have lots of gas; the question is how much is necessary and how well it can be conserved on an M-type asteroid mining operation. Perhaps the miners can use centrifugal force to guide rock bits into an augur or conveyor, and no gas.

3. Local machine shop for simple repairs: possible as long as repairs are kept very simple. Making new drill bits and grinder bits will be necessary, major repairs may have to depend on spare parts shipped from Earth. (Or a Mars colony.)

5. Cargo that enters the atmosphere without extensive LEO handling. Make a maple seed shaped entry vehicle from inconel. That's an alloy of nickel; it can be made from the left-over nickel of an asteroid mining operation. The interplanetary space tug can release the entry vehicle in a trajectory for direct entry. I read that Mars Express released Beagle 2 in a trajectory that did not require any manoeuvres from Beagle 2. Once released it just fell to Mars. The problem was the aeroshell had a design optimized for Titan, not Mars. So we make atmospheric entry vehicles to carry platinum bars, and ensure they are "dropped" by the tug in a direct entry trajectory. Then send a truck to go pick up the cargo. Considering it would have precious metals onboard, perhaps send a helicopter with security guards to wait for the truck.

smurf975 · 2004-07-22 12:42:25

3. Local machine shop for simple repairs: possible as long as repairs are kept very simple. Making new drill bits and grinder bits will be necessary, major repairs may have to depend on spare parts shipped from Earth. (Or a Mars colony.)

If you make everything modular there will be no such thing as major repairs. And every module will be made of other modules.

So if anything is broken remove the broken module and replace it with a working one. Analyse the broken module and remove and replace the broken submodule(s) and keep it as spare replacement module. Loop this cycle.

Basically: Think Lego blocks who make up any kind of submodules and different submodules put together make different modules and different modules make an unknown number of unique devices.

Or like electronics: You have transitors, diodes, resistors, capicitators, IC's and microchips. You can build anything using these components.

---

Sorry for all the editing

RobertDyck · 2004-07-22 13:04:47

Maple seed, lifting body, or aeroshell; each has different atmospheric dynamics but the purpose is to crash land. No need for a parachute. Is a lifting body stable without an active manoeuvring system? No manoeuvrers means no rocket engines, no valves, no tanks, no air control surfaces, no servos, no electronics. Just drop it from interplanetary space and pull the crumpled heap out of the desert floor with a truck crane.

smurf975 · 2004-07-22 13:18:23

Maple seed, lifting body, or aeroshell; each has different atmospheric dynamics but the purpose is to crash land. No need for a parachute. Is a lifting body stable without an active manoeuvring system? No manoeuvrers means no rocket engines, no valves, no tanks, no air control surfaces, no servos, no electronics. Just drop it from interplanetary space and pull the crumpled heap out of the desert floor with a truck crane.

I don't like the word "crash land". I prefer controlled crash. As crash land sounds like something that has gone wrong. I think controlled crash sounds better to the general public to understand what you are thinking off. A plane with one wing does in my book a crash land, a functioning plane but the engine cut off does a controlled crash.

Anyway, I would think that a controless lifting body would by like a mix of a glider and a kite, 90% glider and 10% kite.

comstar03 · 2004-07-22 21:03:12

I suggest that Mars Society should start a rss news feed for companies in the space industry to publish information about themselves and also any news of new products, or completed research etc. Build it into a quality news service.

This will get a serious list of business groups in space development, then a second news feed specializing on Mars development Issues and business research for Mar Exploration.

This will bring Mars Society and Business together, thus a voice within the world, through the Internet. Run the News Service as a commercial venture and provide advertising space to bring it self-funding.

Another Business Idea for currently space programs throughout the world , sponsorship of launches , with advertising on launch pad and surrounding areas ( like car racing sponsorship ) and advertisements on a space channel via TV. Build awareness to the public about the uses and future uses of space ( like CNET for Technology ) call it IPTN Channel - InterPlanetary Television Network.

comstar03 · 2004-07-29 21:38:56

Well,

I see that the existing launching concepts are still what people in this industry want. If you look at the large scale changes have come from radical concepts.

Humanity needs radical changes to achieve the goals of large substainable space exploration. All current launch vehicles and proposed vehicles haven't got the payload size to move large objects into orbit. ( eg. 50m long * 10m width payload space )

When that starts to happen then I will believe that humanity is serious about space development.

:bars:

Morris · 2004-07-30 11:30:29

Only time will tell - but people must remember that Las Vegas or New Hong Kong Airport or the Island Airport in Japan didn't exist until someone made it and overcome the issues.

I know about Las Vegas and Kansai International Airport in Japan. What is interesting about New Hong Kong Airport?

SpaceNut · 2004-07-30 11:35:39

The problem with using manned flight for repair and of other activites by the commercial industry. Always will come back to the question of How much do you think it is worth or do you feel it is worth doing for the money and could I save money by doing it a different way.

The industry of heavy lift capability is under the same gun. Of what was the developement cost, how many launches will it take to recouple the investment knowing how much we can expect a customer to pay.

Sometime starting small means you either stay small or that the rate of grow is over a very long time. Much to long due to rising of inflation and costs to recouple a profit means you eventually go out of business.

comstar03 · 2004-08-01 22:13:56

SpaceNut,

In Business , some products developed for current income, some projects developed for future income ( active research) and some activities for long term growth - ( concepts )

With the regulatory structure that the countries are trying to use, slows done space development and make corporations work within government controls.

Governments are the ones with the purse for space purchases and also sets the specifications for space transportation systems, telecommunications, and environmental systems. Limited Customer base, this means that they require the space corporations to fit in their box , not think outside the box for the lowest quality cost process.

Government regulations should require safety standards, and quality launch standards only.

SpaceNut · 2004-08-03 06:57:57

The nations space programs right now can not purchase anything of the kind such as a soyuz or a progress from Russia regardless of the price.

How can we get the private industry to go for such concepts?

Could we buy from our Eurpean freinds the Automated Transfer Vehicle or do we have that same issue as before?

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#26 2004-07-22 12:27:00

Re: Business Community and Space - Bring the Business into the Space Race

#27 2004-07-22 12:34:45

Re: Business Community and Space - Bring the Business into the Space Race

#28 2004-07-22 12:42:25

Re: Business Community and Space - Bring the Business into the Space Race

#29 2004-07-22 13:04:47

Re: Business Community and Space - Bring the Business into the Space Race

#30 2004-07-22 13:18:23

Re: Business Community and Space - Bring the Business into the Space Race

#31 2004-07-22 21:03:12

Re: Business Community and Space - Bring the Business into the Space Race

#32 2004-07-29 21:38:56

Re: Business Community and Space - Bring the Business into the Space Race

#33 2004-07-30 11:30:29

Re: Business Community and Space - Bring the Business into the Space Race

#34 2004-07-30 11:35:39

Re: Business Community and Space - Bring the Business into the Space Race

#35 2004-08-01 22:13:56

Re: Business Community and Space - Bring the Business into the Space Race

#36 2004-08-03 06:57:57

Re: Business Community and Space - Bring the Business into the Space Race

Board footer