Colonizable worlds in the Solar System - How far can we go.

atitarev · 2004-06-30 21:15:05

How far can we live in the Solar system without mirrors and lenses? At the moment, for some even Mars is too cold and hostile, not terraformable, etc. For others, even Pluto and beyond is not a problem. Not financially but technically, what is the limit? Of course, if we install a lens a size of Jupiter in front of Pluto, it gets warmer (if it doesn't melt away ). I don't mean that. It gets really cold around Jupiter (4% of solar energy compared to Earth) and Saturn (1%). Can we adapt to live Callisto, Titan, Titania, Triton without lenses? Lenses won't help that far. Can we use nuclear power there to keep warm in the habitats. What about terraforming? What a terraformed Triton should look like.

I am not asking about the financial side, I know the answer, just theoretically, what do you think?

As for me, I am not too interested in really small bodies. Even Pluto is probably too small (diameter 2,274 km). Triton is a bit larger (2700 km) http://www.nineplanets.org/triton.html]Triton. That's as far I would go colonizing/terraforming (not in the near future).

MarsDog · 2004-06-30 22:37:45

Imagine an Earth sized planet, with a more radioactive core,
flung out into intergalactic space. The inhabitants would
insulate and use geothermal to live in comfort for billions of years.
-
Maybe that is the way we will travel to the next galaxy ?

atitarev · 2004-06-30 23:06:23

Imagine an Earth sized planet, with a more radioactive core,
flung out into intergalactic space. The inhabitants would
insulate and use geothermal to live in comfort for billions of years.
-
Maybe that is the way we will travel to the next galaxy ?

No need to do this for a few billion years, I guess :sleep:

MarsDog · 2004-07-01 08:52:26

Self regulating natural reactors.
-
For a fusion reactor, you need the size of the Sun.
For fission, the size can be very small.
Self powered planet sized bodies could be the transportation to other stars.

atitarev · 2004-07-01 19:23:07

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mars-gen … ml]History of the Terraforming concept, Sci-Fi, NASA, etc

MarsDog, you digress. I want to talk about the outer limits of terraformation.
---

The large moons of Uranus (say YOOR-a-nus, not "your anus" or "urine us" ) are pretty close to their mother planet, including the largest two http://www.nineplanets.org/titania.html]Titania - 436,000 km and http://www.nineplanets.org/oberon.html]Oberon - 583,000. The radiations levels are unknown but they could be pretty high. Same with Neptune's http://www.nineplanets.org/triton.html]Triton - the distance is only 355,000 km.

Jupiter's Ganymede and Callisto and Saturn's Titan are distanced much better.

Gennaro · 2004-07-02 10:02:16

We need colonizable moons around Saturn, Uranus and Neptune, since Jupiter's atmosphere is useless for He-3 extraction due to forbidding delta-V.

The best places to settle are outside this solar system imo. We just need Einstein to be proven wrong.

MarsDog · 2004-07-02 20:52:52

MarsDog, you digress. I want to talk about the outer limits of terraformation.

The limit is in the definitions and allowed techniques.
I thought about terraforming a basketball, and if I could just arrange dark matter

karov · 2004-07-05 01:36:32

How far can we live in the Solar system without mirrors and lenses? At the moment, for some even Mars is too cold and hostile, not terraformable, etc. For others, even Pluto and beyond is not a problem. Not financially but technically, what is the limit? Of course, if we install a lens a size of Jupiter in front of Pluto, it gets warmer (if it doesn't melt away ). I don't mean that. It gets really cold around Jupiter (4% of solar energy compared to Earth) and Saturn (1%). Can we adapt to live Callisto, Titan, Titania, Triton without lenses? Lenses won't help that far. Can we use nuclear power there to keep warm in the habitats. What about terraforming? What a terraformed Triton should look like.
I am not asking about the financial side, I know the answer, just theoretically, what do you think?
As for me, I am not too interested in really small bodies. Even Pluto is probably too small (diameter 2,274 km). Triton is a bit larger (2700 km) http://www.nineplanets.org/triton.html]Triton. That's as far I would go colonizing/terraforming (not in the near future).

My personal bold answer about the natural GRAVITATIONAL limit for terraformabolity of any astronomical body (based on many theoretisations from G.Nordley to P.Burch) is that:

1.Every body made ROUND under the force of its selfgravitation in this universe is terraformable.

-- from Vesta, Pallas, Ceres, Charon, Enceladus, Miranda... to Jupiter, the Sun, the giant, neutron, quark stars, the black holes... For the smaller keep activelly the air from leaking by various means, for the bigger and the biggest - lacking solid surface - build such, on hight where the G is equaling the earth`s or lower.

About the illumination limits. Indeed they do not exist. For the Solar system we could within the boundaries of the designable and constructable technology to illuminate with earth quantity equivalent of light any body we`d like from several solar radii to several light yearsn from the Sun using lenses. As shown by Dyson for the entirelly artificial tube worlds -- only after 2 LY the mass of the reflector should be bigger than the mass of the colony itself in order to insolate it with earth areal quantity of natural collected sunlight.

So, for the planets` or tubes` terraformation such limit doesn`t exists within the void of the Milky way.

Even in the very interstellar space there is enough economicaly collectable star light from various sources for full scale terraformation of any human-habitable surface - rotating tube, supramundane shell or natural planetary solid surface land.

May be, out of the Jupiter`s orbit we`ll not be able to deal with the environmnets without artificial illumination increase...

For the really small bodies the terraformability question will be answered by the limit of low G tolerability of the human body.

How the terraformed Triton would like -- there are lots of possible designs. Serious discussion theme may occur to be:

Which first - Triton or Neptune itself. Neptune has near earth 'surface' G. There solid artificial surface could be built closer to the planet, without serious or any orbital rings cage, indeed hovering onto the atmosphere. The two terraforming pojects could benefit eachother, mainly by utilizing the energy confined in the celestial mechanics of the Neptune system. The orbit of Triton and other moons can be swaped/adjusted for mining the gas giant, the same way is proposed by Paul Birch for trading the descent to 1 G level of rocks/water from the Gallileans for ascend of harvested amonia for nitrogen from Jupiter.

The terraforming of such too small or too big bodies seems really excessive, but remember that here we discuss the theoretical possibilty of it and we regard situations where other more suitable bodies are not present in certain solar system.

For example a recent study find that Tau Ceti is surrounded by nearly TEN TIMES as much asteroids and comets as our own system ( See in 'http://www.space.com]www.space.com' or in 'http://www.universetoday.com]www.universetoday.com' ). That lead to the legitimate conclusion that Tau Ceti system consists of several gas giants migrated compeatively close to the star and countless host of ejected in higher orbits debris which didn`t managed to coalesce in earth-size bodies. Having 'in hands' such system --what kinds of colonisation do you commit? If we have several Jupiters and Neptunes + numerous Lunas and Tritons and Vestas + ten Jupiter masses of planetoides, meteoroides and dust/gas ; than full scale of first, Birch`s supramundane habitats construction, second spagheti tube world construction AND third, smaller bodies air coverage works is the most posible answer of "how to reconstruct this system in human habitable?".

Of course vast soleta deploiment would be part of this, too.

karov · 2004-07-05 01:52:19

The large moons of Uranus (say YOOR-a-nus, not "your anus" or "urine us" ) are pretty close to their mother planet, including the largest two http://www.nineplanets.org/titania.html]Titania - 436,000 km and http://www.nineplanets.org/oberon.html]Oberon - 583,000. The radiations levels are unknown but they could be pretty high. Same with Neptune's http://www.nineplanets.org/triton.html]Triton - the distance is only 355,000 km.
Jupiter's Ganymede and Callisto and Saturn's Titan are distanced much better.

The radiation in the vicinity of the gas giants due to their huge rotating magnetospheres could be utilized for the terraforming effort and later as industrial/biospheric power source.

The energy confined in the gravitating, rotating and orbiting bodies is as much significan, powerful and longlasting power source as the fusion from the stars. The radiation in the analogs of Van Alen belts around other planets is just a electromagnetic manifestation of this rotation.

As also G.Nordley pointed out -- a satelite around giant planet could relly entirely on these purelly mechanical in origin resourses, uttelry independent from radiating energy from fusion in a central star. Or bunch of planets and their moons around white dwarf or neutron star.

karov · 2004-07-05 02:12:54

We need colonizable moons around Saturn, Uranus and Neptune, since Jupiter's atmosphere is useless for He-3 extraction due to forbidding delta-V.

A cheap dirt (say hydrogen) descended into the gravity well of Jupiter could be swapped by mass for ascending valuable He3 up, using some momentum exchange mechanism as Orbital ring system or diving ram-scoops.

karov · 2004-07-10 15:00:05

Can we adapt to live Callisto, Titan, Titania, Triton without lenses? Lenses won't help that far. Can we use nuclear power there to keep warm in the habitats. What about terraforming? What a terraformed Triton should look like.

As for me, I am not too interested in really small bodies. Even Pluto is probably too small (diameter 2,274 km). Triton is a bit larger (2700 km)

Triton could be Titan-formed at least. Also Pluto and other smaller bodies.

The reason why Titan is the most hospitable of-earth world in the Solar system for human habitation is that it has dense atmosphere. We all could agree that a SKY is necessary for colonising a world -- no matter this atmosphere is earthlike and brethable or not, the right density/presure/ and non-agressive composition seems enough. Without the presure of any outer dome atmosphere or ocean of any liquid, we`ll need impossible materials to hold the enclousures from bursting -- even on Mars. At least 0.3-0.5 Bars of outer pressure is essential for doming -- off course this exterior presure shouldn`t be higher than the internal -- so several bars are the upper limit, regarding the brethable mixtures available for long duration stay of humans.

The low gravity and the deep cold allow really huge volumes to be terraformed, covered with water ice alloys domes, and the advantages of the original body`s nature to be utilized completely simultaneously. The water-ice ( icecrete ?) walls could be designed in such manner to balance with enough insolation the heat leakage between the 300 K interior and 100 K exterior and to remain solid and robust.

This theme occurs to be tighly connected with the 'terraforming smaller bodies' one -- for the smallest bodies it is obvious that we can not create open sky with earthlike atmosphere without kinda cover -- because of the practical impossibilty the exobase to be kept so cryogenically cool to prevent the air leakage AND the troposphere to have liquid-water temperature the same time.

But I think worlds like Triton or Pluto, or even smaller ones, could be Titan-formed, adding just a little more illumination, so the gasses not to be boiled away.

Triton has its N2-volcanoes. Importing heat in its crust or insolating more its surface would produce close to titan-like atmosphere around this moon. The exact parameters of this new sky should be planned according to the needs and the native conditions and sources. The illumination at Neptune/Pluto distance is still big enough the human eyes to work usefully, i.e. visibility of the landscape. With mirrors it could be rised to Titan`s level of 1% or 15 Watts/sq.m., easier than to the Earth`s one.

The radiational problems of the moons could be solved, even lessened by the new thick atmosphere, by utilising the natural dynamo`s of Neptune energy to power-supply properly arranged arraw of IR- and pseudowhite lasers -- both for keeping the atmosphere in gaseous form without boiling it off (the IR) and for providing the humans with enough visible illumination (the pseudowhite). + all the industrial vital electricity for oxigen production and warming/lighting of the terraformed volumes. More intense monochromatic (with the most usefull wavelenght) laser beams could be fired from points non moving in respect to the surface ( the lagrange points of Neptune-Triton ) -- with very high accuracy towards Aresibo-like mirror-concentrator 'cups' to produce electricity and to provide enough heat to keep the atmosphere gaseous. Special plant-life volumes (farmlands) can be illuminated uninteraptedly with the proper composition and intensity of light in order optimal conditions for super-efficient biomass production to be established. Using sophisticated and highly elaborated systems of solasers and soletas, not only very distant worlds and habitats could be iluminated with earth-level equivalent quantity of light, but even with the present day tech every sq.m. of the body could be poured with carefully projected different quality and quantity of light -- from complete darkness, through only IR, to monochromatic and natural sun light - filtered or not, amplified or not. As I said for titan-forming the earth equivalent is too high -- the minimum requirement is such amount of termal power that to keep the air in gaseous form. For N2 -- the best external atmospheric gas ( and most available outthere ) we need to keep the average temperatures higher than 77 K at the ground. The termal power for keeping the atmosphere gaseous could come from any source -- concentrated sunlight directed towards the titanformed body, nuclear reactors, radiation belts of a gas giant exploited by megascale MHD-type generators, electrodynanical tethers, or from deorbiting in incremental manner material to Neptune or using Charon`s mass as enormous reservoir of very high electric 'water' dam -- by beanstalks or Lofstrom loops...

Could be discussed even the simplest forms of illumination increase -- the collected light can be pointed towards only one single spot on the body`s surface or spread over single hemisphere. The wind heat transfer will redistribute quite evenly the heat around the moon -- the same way as with Venus, terraformed Mercury, or every slowly or non-rotating body as the simulations show. Thus titan-formed minor bodies would be supplied with out-of-habitats environment roamable with only dry nonpresurized suit + bottle of oxigen ( + pair of wings and radar/flashlights...) and the inhabitants wouldn`t be pressed to live entirelly underground.

Under cold titan-like sky -- which wouldn`t evaporate for billions of years -- a whole planet`s surface paraterraforming by floating planetwide dome with terrestrial temperatures beneath it could be deployed. Another layer on ground could keep the ice from melting. So the temperature gradient in hight will be quite strange -- cold solid depths, ground-blanket, warm earthlike layer several kilometers thick, floating-dome, cold titanlike atmosphere...

MarsDog · 2004-07-10 16:15:22

We should look for Sol b, the possible failed star companion to the Sun. It might still be hot from gravitational contraction or a radioactive core. The colonists could float around in its atmosphere and use wind power.

karov · 2004-07-10 17:59:38

MarsDog,

About the geothermal stockpile of energy in the astronomical bodies, look at the figures for the little Earth:
==============================================
"Temperature of the Earth over time. The earth is probably cooling down now with crustal heat loss of 8, mantle heat loss of 31 and core heat loss of 3, (units of 1012 Watts) making a total of 42. The net loss of 10 implies a cooling of the earth (hence the thermal contraction contribution to the total heat production noted above) Using 1000 J/kg as an average specific heat for the mantle and a total earth mass of 6 x 1024 kg we arrive at a rate of cooling at present of .06 K per million years, or 60 K per billion years. This rate was likely higher in the past ? higher temperature would have lowered viscosity and allowed more rapid heat escape and cooling."... ... ... from: http://www.geo.utexas.edu/courses/468k/ … ...-HF.doc
==============================================
Generally, I agree with your enthusiasm the geotermal energy not to be neglected. These bodies during their collaps/coalescence to formation indeed reatained all of the ENORMOUS gravitational potential energy of the trapped in their gravity well particles and release it quite slowly. You see that the entire Earth cooled with only 200-300 K for its all history since formation and will need trillions of years to solid freeze entirelly. The net termal flow from within is 20000 times smaller than the one coming from the solar radiation, but still we have under our feets a fireball with the size of the Moon and the temperature of the Sun`s surface. The greater planets, gas giants, brown dwarfs, failed and dead stars - white dwarf, neutron stars... keep incomparably bigger quantities of usefull heat.
Even the round planetoides (Sedna) in the Oort cloud should have some usefull for Heat machines termal gradient -- the small bodies are also much more easier to be drilled much more deeper.
This geothermal energy comes in part also from the decaying of radioactive material inside the planet, but the major part comes from the same origin as the VAST reserve of energy in the celestial mechanics -- from the force dominating the final destiny of the universe. Indeed the radiational energy of the stars comes from sqeezing energetical states releasing just procents of the total energy in the mass. The star ashes finally should pass throgh the gravitational mill of the black holes and the Hawking radiation in order to release all their energy.

Earth-size or smaller body in the interstellar void can supply with power quite big society and biosphere for billions of years.

Earth alone -- without the sun light and having tech for effective extraction and transformation of the core heat could sustain ONLY from its own internal termal reserves a biosphere as big as the nowadays for HALF A TRILLION YEARS ( having 6x10 E 24 kg of molten rock with average of 1000 J/kg content divided on ~12x10 E 15 of energy fixed by the plants per annum)...

Imagine the internal heat stockpile of Jupiter. Put into the account its rotation. The potential gravitational energy of its solar orbit...

But, the failed to ignite stars if you mean the brown dwarfs or biggest gas giants are not suitable for direct colonisation because of their huge 'surface' gravity. They have to be covered with 1 G solid shells -- terraformed and powered outwards by their internal non-fusion and non-radiational energy -- namely 'geothermal' + rotational.

MarsDog · 2004-07-11 01:25:52

Jupiter, a failed star, has only 2.5 times Earth's gravity.
A tall heavy person might have trouble, but a Pygmy might be able to adapt.
(weight is proportional to volume or lenght cubed,
strenght is proportional to area or lenght squared)

karov · 2004-07-11 04:05:19

Jupiter, a failed star, has only 2.5 times Earth's gravity.
A tall heavy person might have trouble, but a Pygmy might be able to adapt.
(weight is proportional to volume or lenght cubed,
strenght is proportional to area or lenght squared)

Jupiter is a 'failed star' in very wide range of the sence of the word. It needs another 13 times its own mass to become brown dwarf and to burn its lithium and deuterium or another 80 times its mass to become the faintest type of red dwarf burning its plain hydrogen reserves. So, Jupiter is too far from the stars.

Indeed it has close to the maximum diameter for the substellar bodies - planets and brown dwarfs - adding more mass increases its density but the volume remains around the jovian figures. Hence, the surface gravity on the real failed stars - the brown dwarfs - from 8-13 to 75-80 jupiter masses has to be in the range of dozens of gees -- absolutelly lethal even for short disposing...

A failed star could be exploited very efficienly as a deposite of 'geotermal' and axial rotational energy -- providing enough energy for nowaday earth-sized economy+ecology for trillions of years... But it can not be directly inhabited by colonist flying in it atmosphere. We should arrange Pat Gunkle`s 'topoplois' pipe world arround it, or Burch`s style supramundane shell, or just vast host of independently orbiting arround it rotating space colonies in Dyson swarm manner (or simply complete capture power collector beaming the power to such colonies...) in order to utilize its energy reserves entirelly...

atitarev · 2004-07-11 07:16:14

Can we adapt to live Callisto, Titan, Titania, Triton without lenses? Lenses won't help that far. Can we use nuclear power there to keep warm in the habitats. What about terraforming? What a terraformed Triton should look like.

As for me, I am not too interested in really small bodies. Even Pluto is probably too small (diameter 2,274 km). Triton is a bit larger (2700 km)
Triton could be Titan-formed at least. Also Pluto and other smaller bodies.
The reason why Titan is the most hospitable of-earth world in the Solar system for human habitation is that it has dense atmosphere. We all could agree that a SKY is necessary for colonising a world -- no matter this atmosphere is earthlike and brethable or not, the right density/presure/ and non-agressive composition seems enough. Without the presure of any outer dome atmosphere or ocean of any liquid, we`ll need impossible materials to hold the enclousures from bursting -- even on Mars. At least 0.3-0.5 Bars of outer pressure is essential for doming -- off course this exterior presure shouldn`t be higher than the internal -- so several bars are the upper limit, regarding the brethable mixtures available for long duration stay of humans.
The low gravity and the deep cold allow really huge volumes to be terraformed, covered with water ice alloys domes, and the advantages of the original body`s nature to be utilized completely simultaneously. The water-ice ( icecrete ?) walls could be designed in such manner to balance with enough insolation the heat leakage between the 300 K interior and 100 K exterior and to remain solid and robust.
This theme occurs to be tighly connected with the 'terraforming smaller bodies' one -- for the smallest bodies it is obvious that we can not create open sky with earthlike atmosphere without kinda cover -- because of the practical impossibilty the exobase to be kept so cryogenically cool to prevent the air leakage AND the troposphere to have liquid-water temperature the same time.
But I think worlds like Triton or Pluto, or even smaller ones, could be Titan-formed, adding just a little more illumination, so the gasses not to be boiled away.
Triton has its N2-volcanoes. Importing heat in its crust or insolating more its surface would produce close to titan-like atmosphere around this moon. The exact parameters of this new sky should be planned according to the needs and the native conditions and sources. The illumination at Neptune/Pluto distance is still big enough the human eyes to work usefully, i.e. visibility of the landscape. With mirrors it could be rised to Titan`s level of 1% or 15 Watts/sq.m., easier than to the Earth`s one.
The radiational problems of the moons could be solved, even lessened by the new thick atmosphere, by utilising the natural dynamo`s of Neptune energy to power-supply properly arranged arraw of IR- and pseudowhite lasers -- both for keeping the atmosphere in gaseous form without boiling it off (the IR) and for providing the humans with enough visible illumination (the pseudowhite). + all the industrial vital electricity for oxigen production and warming/lighting of the terraformed volumes. More intense monochromatic (with the most usefull wavelenght) laser beams could be fired from points non moving in respect to the surface ( the lagrange points of Neptune-Triton ) -- with very high accuracy towards Aresibo-like mirror-concentrator 'cups' to produce electricity and to provide enough heat to keep the atmosphere gaseous. Special plant-life volumes (farmlands) can be illuminated uninteraptedly with the proper composition and intensity of light in order optimal conditions for super-efficient biomass production to be established. Using sophisticated and highly elaborated systems of solasers and soletas, not only very distant worlds and habitats could be iluminated with earth-level equivalent quantity of light, but even with the present day tech every sq.m. of the body could be poured with carefully projected different quality and quantity of light -- from complete darkness, through only IR, to monochromatic and natural sun light - filtered or not, amplified or not. As I said for titan-forming the earth equivalent is too high -- the minimum requirement is such amount of termal power that to keep the air in gaseous form. For N2 -- the best external atmospheric gas ( and most available outthere ) we need to keep the average temperatures higher than 77 K at the ground. The termal power for keeping the atmosphere gaseous could come from any source -- concentrated sunlight directed towards the titanformed body, nuclear reactors, radiation belts of a gas giant exploited by megascale MHD-type generators, electrodynanical tethers, or from deorbiting in incremental manner material to Neptune or using Charon`s mass as enormous reservoir of very high electric 'water' dam -- by beanstalks or Lofstrom loops...
Could be discussed even the simplest forms of illumination increase -- the collected light can be pointed towards only one single spot on the body`s surface or spread over single hemisphere. The wind heat transfer will redistribute quite evenly the heat around the moon -- the same way as with Venus, terraformed Mercury, or every slowly or non-rotating body as the simulations show. Thus titan-formed minor bodies would be supplied with out-of-habitats environment roamable with only dry nonpresurized suit + bottle of oxigen ( + pair of wings and radar/flashlights...) and the inhabitants wouldn`t be pressed to live entirelly underground.
Under cold titan-like sky -- which wouldn`t evaporate for billions of years -- a whole planet`s surface paraterraforming by floating planetwide dome with terrestrial temperatures beneath it could be deployed. Another layer on ground could keep the ice from melting. So the temperature gradient in hight will be quite strange -- cold solid depths, ground-blanket, warm earthlike layer several kilometers thick, floating-dome, cold titanlike atmosphere...

Very interesting, Karov. (What's your first name? Your profile doesn't say it.) Yes, probably to colonize the coldest worlds of the Solar system - you'd need that - some thick atmosphere around the body (planet or moon) and then the domes. The atmosphere could have lots of CO2 or other greenhouse gases to keep the temperatures warmer. It's believed that Pluto does have some N2 atmosphere, which is frozen when it is in its aphelion - it would need some heat to keep it from freezing (the methods you described could be used). The ice walls for the domes sound good to me but other materials could be used as well.

karov · 2004-07-16 17:52:25

Very interesting, Karov. (What's your first name? Your profile doesn't say it.) Yes, probably to colonize the coldest worlds of the Solar system - you'd need that - some thick atmosphere around the body (planet or moon) and then the domes. The atmosphere could have lots of CO2 or other greenhouse gases to keep the temperatures warmer. It's believed that Pluto does have some N2 atmosphere, which is frozen when it is in its aphelion - it would need some heat to keep it from freezing (the methods you described could be used). The ice walls for the domes sound good to me but other materials could be used as well.

My first name is Georgi.

In 80-100 K temperature necessary for gaseous N2 atmosphere the CO2 and most of the other greenhouse gases will solid-freeze. We`ll have to relly upon, perhubs, only the greenhouse effect of the gases capable to remain gases in these temperatures. Indeed more important if we use light or other EM radiation to heat the air will be the colour of the surface - darker is better - a condition, BTW, already satisfied by the most of the trans-saturnian icy bodies or easily achievable by the local carbon and tar-like substances resourses ( see Zuppero`s http://www.neofuel.com]www.neofuel.com ). Rectenae-like receivers structures for IR or MW EM-energy could power secondary heaters, too...

On certain minimal temperature level the O2 would be also gaseous, so such supercold atmosphere could be indeed brethable -- after heating the N2/O2 mixture of course in order not to frost-burn the human lungs... Under the domes - this supercold air -- already having the right presure and content would just need to be warmed up. The oxigenation of the air could not relly on biological but purely industrial sources for initial production and replenisment.

About Pluto. Yes, it has N2 and other 'right' volatiles, and needs very small additional heat to become world with deep sky in titan-like manner. This heat could be provided by concentrating sun light with big soleta ( but not so huge as the necessary for earth-equivalent illumination ), fusion power if available ( the whole atmosphere as a heat sink for the waste heat of the industrial electric power production? ), or even the 'geo'termal resourses - even Pluto has temp.s higher than 300 K at its core... Very perspective sourse is the gravitational potential energy of Pluto-Charon system or they both coupled with another plutino or kuipertoid. See (again) http://www.paulbirch.net]www.paulbirch.net , http://www.paulbirch.net/OrbitalRings-I … gs-III.zip , pg.234 about the Earth-Moon system. Deorbiting Charon or other kuipertoid will give all the biospheric and industrial energy they`ll need for billions of years...

About the materials: ice and wood and frozen jellies, ice-crete, wet paper, soft plastics are better than metals in 80-100 K. Remember the brake as safety maches sticks of the buldozers and other metal structures even in the earth`s polar regions...

Commodore · 2004-07-26 15:28:51

The great thing about the outer moons is that they are so rich in mineral resources that we could eventually cover the entire surface in a pressurized dome containing whatever atmosphere we wanted.

There are exceptions of course. Io isn't the best canidate.

In fact I'd say that if the body doesn't have significant atmosphere to begin with, its probably not worth it.

Palomar · 2004-07-26 15:55:47

The large moons of Uranus (say YOOR-a-nus, not "your anus" or "urine us" )

*Sorry, but I can't resist commenting:

I always pronounce it "You-ran-us." Less embarrassing that way!

Now back on topic.

--Cindy

atitarev · 2004-07-26 16:53:25

The large moons of Uranus (say YOOR-a-nus, not "your anus" or "urine us" )
*Sorry, but I can't resist commenting:
I always pronounce it "You-ran-us." Less embarrassing that way!
Now back on topic.
--Cindy

Cindy, are you stressing the the first or the second syllable? The first should be stressed (capitalized) according to the Nine Planets site.

Palomar · 2004-07-26 19:36:12

The large moons of Uranus (say YOOR-a-nus, not "your anus" or "urine us" )
*Sorry, but I can't resist commenting:
I always pronounce it "You-ran-us." Less embarrassing that way!
Now back on topic.
--Cindy

Cindy, are you stressing the first or the second syllable?

*Hi Anatoli. I stress the 2nd syllable. Sorry, I should have been more precise in my previous post.

--Cindy

karov · 2004-07-28 11:19:02

The great thing about the outer moons is that they are so rich in mineral resources that we could eventually cover the entire surface in a pressurized dome containing whatever atmosphere we wanted.
There are exceptions of course. Io isn't the best canidate.
In fact I'd say that if the body doesn't have significant atmosphere to begin with, its probably not worth it.

One can built pressurized dome over any body independently of it surface gravity. Even to blow pressurized dome in naked space without any astronomical body in it. The paraterraforming was proposed as cheap means of incremental terraforming a planet, achievanble with the construction abilities of the 1960s. Roofing a planet saves lots of volatiles, too, cause the weight of the dome saves lots of air mass to provide the necessary ambient atmosphere pressure. The outer moons are very rich in atmosphere-building volatiles. From point of economicity, they do not need to be entirelly covered.

They all have atmosphere, but often it is in frozen state.

Io and the other Gallileans don`t have atmospheres, because of the excentricity of the Jovian magnetosphere, which powerfully sweeps out the gases from the moon`s surfaces. According to G.Nordley if the Jovian and Saturn magnetospheres are somehow swapped, than the Gallileans would have atmospheres, with even liquid water temperartures on surface if thick enough, but Titan would loose its thick one.

If we shouldn`t bother with bodies without sufficient atmosphere than only Titan remains in our colonisation list. I don`t agree -- these which don`t have atmosphere will receive such. It`s not so difficult task. Even these who are in the group of bodies with 1-3 % of the earth`s gravity, could hold open-sky ~1bar atmosphere for geological eras, if the thermal velocity of the particles in their exobase is kept under 20% of the exobase escape velocity and there is sufficient 'cold trap' over the intermost layer... For such very low surface gravity planets and moons it may appear very hard to maintain effective troposphere 'cold trap' when the surface temperature is about 300K, but ~80-100K surface T titan-forming is far-far better than naked vacuum for colonisation. I can`t tell where the SG- boundary for terraforming lies, but say, Pluto has average surface temperarture of 40 K keeping its N2 in place. If it has 200-300 K surface T, 'cold trap' above troposphere, manipulated mesosphere for exobase cooloing to <20% esc.vel. + artificial magnitosphere -- Pluto will have earth-like atmosphere for billions of years. Smaller than it bodies could be the same, but how much smaller...?

About the low G -- see the thread for the gravity issue.

Manipulate the Jovian magnetic field in the orbit of Io and that will decrease the radiation and the particle bombardment in order atmosphere to be retainable.

So, every astronomical body made round by its own selfgravitation and having distinct surface - solid or liquid - is suitable for terraformation.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-01-04 12:04:32

Mars Frontier Outpost Could Survive With Just 22 Residents, Researchers Say
https://futurism.com/the-byte/mars-colo … -residents

Why is it so hard to build a closed-loop ecological life support system?
https://space.stackexchange.com/questio … ort-system

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