Cydonian "Pyramids & Face" - ...(what is your opinion?)

REB · 2004-06-02 06:04:04

When I saw the face in the Viking pictures, I was hoping it was some artificial artifact. I even read Hoaglands Monument to Mars. But better pictures show it is just another Martian hill. It does have some interesting Geology.

So why such a drastic change in the face when we get new pictures? It has to do with pixel limit. You see, the original picture of the face was at the limit of the camera’s resolution. In fact, you’ll find that all of the artifacts listed on Hoagland’s website are at the camera’s resolution pixel limit.

At the pixel limit, things are unclear. That is when our imagination takes over. Humans tend to see faces in all kinds of things, the wood grain in a desk, clouds, or even the side of a mountain. When you up the resolution, I have noticed that Hoagland goes back to the new pixel limit to find more artifacts.

What about enhancing? When ever a picture is enhanced, data has been added that was not there before. I laugh at Hollywood when they take a picture, zoom in and enhance it so you can see something like what is written on a piece of paper. In the original picture the paper is just a white speck, but they show clear writing on it. Folks, that is not possible. You can’t pull out data that is not there. Pictures have a pixel limit, past that, there is no data to gather. You can’t take one pixel and enhance it so it is now many smaller pixels with new data, and be accurate.

REB · 2004-06-03 06:57:35

Here is a good read on the "Face"

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/ho … /face.html

oscar · 2004-07-19 18:00:50

That information of the site is incomplete and wrong. Mr. Hoagland said with 10 years anticipation the mountain will reveal anthropomorphic and feline features and the eroded mountain in fact show us exactly that, like a cryptographic zoo-anthropomorphic code making a game of shadow and light that was very common in some civilizations. The one who sets examples of eroded mountains on Earth doesn't know anything about these codes never visited these places. I recomend him a little bit of culture about Earth first before discussing other planets:
http://www.enterprisemission.com/ArtTra … tTrad.html
http://www.labyrinthina.com/marcahua.ht … rcahua.htm
http://www.xpeditionsmagazine.com/magaz … ...si.html
http://greatdreams.com/gem2.htm]http:// … m/gem2.htm
http://lonewolfadventure.com/marcahuasi … lbum2.html
http://lonewolfadventure.com/marcahuasi … lbum3.html
http://www.lonewolfadventure.com/marcah … story.html
http://www.infoperu.com/peru/eng/cusco/ … achu4.html
http://www.infoperu.com/peru/eng/cusco/ … achu5.html
http://www.temakel.com/simbolismoanimal … lllama.htm
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsi … inca4.html
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsi … nca3c.html
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsi … inca5.html
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsi … inca6.html
And if he ever finishes reading without
jumping information as usual in many net surfers :down: there's still time to check what I posted in the thread about dense aliens or hyperdimensional. :band:

oscar · 2004-07-19 18:14:07

It's not only the features of many faces appearing in that enormous mountain, it's the fact of the other structures (hidden in the official books of Nasa, I know because I buy them and read them) and other complete sphinx in fron of a "pyramid" (the official books don't show you with zoom) and the math, of course.
http://aadm.com/cydonia/Cydonia2.htm]ht … donia2.htm
It's good to be skeptical but it's an error to think just a single person -Hoagland- is the one making the studies. We're talking about geologist who found at least 24 annomalies, experts in different kind of photograph even infrared, using 3D, spinning the images 180 degrees, projecting shadows from everywhere, etc, etc.
Hoagland's interest in Gizah began when he met Dr. Lambert Dolphin, a scientist from Stanford Research Institute (SRI) who conducted radar & seismographic research to locate hidden chambers near and under Great Sphinx.
There are linguists and specialist in myths and religion working in all elements regarding the planet associated with the god of War...and red color. And yap, NASA uses red filters to make it appear more reddish than it actually is.
And the new photographs show stones that look everything except "natural" rocks including a complete rectangular hole inside a stone and pieces of what it looks jigsaw puzzle. Hoagland didn't invent the fact the so-called Inca city revealed something we didn't know before: the area is like a circle which doesn't seem natural either.
Hoagland or Robert Morningstar or Michael Heiser didn't invent the glass tube, the T formations, the images with something like "trees" and so on. ???

oscar · 2004-07-19 18:25:39

In fact that's not a "good" site. The guy is unknown astronomer who wants to discuss even the areas known better by geologists and his argument is we don't have to read what he considers "pseudo-science websites". Sure he's afraid of something because we can say the usual crap they sell us as "science" in different areas is pseudo-science as well!!!! In the issue about the glass tube he chats about what he considers "illusion" and his bla-bla-bla is not scientifical at all! Yet, he wants to make irony of the credential of Hoagland and everyone who thinks like him. That's not scientific argument either but just a sad effort to diminush the message "eliminating" the ones who delivers the message. So typical of the ones who make apology of the official belief.
Now, we can say the same and put in doubts his credential as well, right? Would that constitute a scientifical argument? I pity him.

oscar · 2004-07-19 18:29:54

Tell me, Mr, can you say -I beg you- why the place with the face and the pyramids was baptized as Cydonia in first place? Why the Freemasons used that precise name for that area? Hmmm?

oscar · 2004-07-19 18:37:48

http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/spacemason/

???

oscar · 2004-07-20 08:26:25

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/capstone/index.htm
Not enough?

REB · 2004-07-21 06:40:04

Hoagland made the ‘Face’ his life work. He invested years of his life trying to show us there was a face on Mars built by intelligent life. I wanted him to be right, but he wasn’t. Plus he has made a good living off of it. As a person who has studied Geology for over 20 years, I can tell you the ‘Face’ is just a natural feature.

The problem with scientists who have made something their life work and it proves to be wrong, is that they stick by it and refuse to give it up. I guess they have invested so much of their time, it is easier to try and defend their work, than to throw it out and start over.

Here is the Scientific Method;
1. Observation and description of a phenomenon or group of phenomena.
2. Formulation of an hypothesis to explain the phenomena. In physics, the hypothesis often takes the form of a causal mechanism or a mathematical relation.
3. Use of the hypothesis to predict the existence of other phenomena, or to predict quantitatively the results of new observations.
4. Performance of experimental tests of the predictions by several independent experimenters and properly performed experiments.
If the experiments bear out the hypothesis it may come to be regarded as a theory or law of nature (more on the concepts of hypothesis, model, theory and law below). If the experiments do not bear out the hypothesis, it must be rejected or modified.
As for where the name of Cydonia comes from, In http://www.exploringmars.com/history/1800.html]1877 Giovanni Schiaparelli (1835 - 1910) develops a nomenclature for mapping the features of Mars. The names are drawn from mythology, history, and various terms for hell.

The name Cydonia come from a city of Greece, now called KhAnia

As for the Bad Astronomy site, Phil Plait is a real respectable scientist.

oscar · 2004-07-21 10:31:16

Bob, you're far off course. First of all, the name was baptized Cydonia by Freemason members of IAU, the name was approved in 1958 and with the collaboration of the Freemasons at Nasa. The name is not the Greek Khania neither Crete at all. The name deals with the cherub known by Freemason in the Bible in Ezekiel 28:11 to verse 20 inclusive. If you allow yourself a bit of culture, you can check the cherub description is like a sphinx in chapter 1 (like the winged bulls in Assyria, Sumer, Babylon, the hybrid creatures from all myths around the world). In chapter 28 the arrogant procedure of the king of Tyrus is compared with the rebel cherub in Eden . In Jewish myths that entity is Satan or Samael, the entity in charge of Mars. In fact Tyrus itself was Mars and the Phoenicians called themselves Cydonians. In Tyre Melkart god was Mars and the Chaldean name gets back to Mavor later on worshipped by Romans as Mars Quirinus, the god of the fortress...as in Mars.
The text in Ezekiel indicates the cherub was expelled from mountain of God, in Sumerian language that was a house-mountain, a pyramid or ziguratt. The word is "ekur" in case you are interested. And the Hebrew words "stones of fire" mentioned in the verse 14 can represent orbit planets and is linked to the evil procedure of that cherub. The cherub in Ezekiel has 4 faces in a single head. The verse 20 specifically says "turn your FACE against SIDON (Cydonia)".
This is interestng since the face was always mentioned as the "sphinx" maybe because the proximity of the Martian pyramids the official books like "Uncovering the Secrets of the Red Planet" CUT OFF in the page 210 and set the worst and blurred photo available (out of 11) of the face.
Can you tell us WHY? It's pretty obvious. Nasa wanted to hide information for the readers and they didn't show us the zoom image of the another complete sphinx in front of a pyramid peak in page 146 (though the color and 3D effect is impresive indeed). It's the same photo shown in Hoagland's site.
Now, lemme say something to you cos as good geologist but awful historian maybe you forgot:
Sphinx was called Hor-em-Akhet in Egyptian language, meaning the falcon Horus in the horizon. Not only that the falcon face appears as discovered by Robert Morningstar in that very Martian eroded face but it's not a coincidence the name of that falcon in Egypt comes from the word heru. Do you have any idea what's the meaning of that word or are you a linguist?
I tell you: it means "face". This is a knowledge Freemasons at Nasa know for sure and the astronauts themselves do perform their Freemason rituals about Isis , etc, giving attention to coordinates they know, special attention to Sirius and number 33. BTW, the tethraedrum angle in Cydonia is 3333....but a geologist is not someone whom we can talk about these things, do we?
It's not another funny coincidence that the math in the position of the face united with the pyramids imitates things we find in Egypt. Are you an expert in math or physicist theorist? Your work, with all do respect, is other, dear Bob.
And I have to say if other geologist finds 24 anomalies maybe he knows what he's talking about and gives the benefit of the doubt.
The whole controversy didn't start with Hoagland but Kelly Laney and members inside Nasa in first place, then the information passed to ASU webpage, then it was used Laney IR image with fractal process and the discussion continues with other people as Carlotto, Graffeo Lahoz, Robert Morningstar, Van Flander...shall I continue? Hence, please don't try to grab onto Hoagland cos he's not alone in this investigation.
The math in association with the Egyptian eye:

http://www.aadm.com/cydonia/Cydonia2.ht … donia2.htm
This sphinx face, the other complete sphinx and this Fibonacci math is not randomic odditity at all if you know that in Arabian language the very name CAIRO means Mars. But you wouldn't notice this if you don't understand ancient religion or why Freemasons choose what they choose, you're just a geologist, period, end of the line.
Are you an expert in cryptography? Would you realize the ancient technique used by ancient civilizations like Incas, Mayas, Egyptians? I doubt it. The statues were not supposed to be seen like our modern art. They became alive in a game of shadow and light in specific times of the day or months, specifically in equinoxes, solstices, eclipses, etc. So, mabe you're gonna be one of those millions of tourist going to Machu Picchu completely BLIND regarding what is there. Of course you're gonna swear by God is just mere "coincidence" due to your lack of knowledge:
http://www.infoperu.com/peru/eng/cusco/ … achu4.html
http://www.infoperu.com/peru/eng/cusco/ … achu5.html
http://www.infoperu.com/peru/fr/cusco/m … achu4.html
http://temakel.com/simbolismoanimalllam … lllama.htm
http://www.aamefe.org.ar/puma/puma.htm] … a/puma.htm
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsi … inca4.html
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsi … nca3c.html
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsi … inca5.html
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsi … inca6.html
It's not just a matter of keen eye but to know WHERE and check the shadows at the proper time and remember the legends associated to the geological facts. In other cases the mountain won't present feature at all but shadows will appear at the expected time with the figures of animals ...again hybrid animals united with man...as in the same Cuzco in the mountain Pitusiray in Sacred Valley, Cuzco (never mind I am perfectly aware you know NOTHING about this either!).
It's a real pity we can't see a controversy right here right now between you and other geologist (let's say R.Nicks) and discuss 24 anomalous objects in the frame 80881 (who discussed about this in Pasadena conference), yap I know your answer with anticipation, don't tell me, you're gonna say "he's not prepared". It's always the alternative answer in the ego aspect. Not me, I tell you. It doesn't matter who I am. I don't have to present my "resume" (as you did) to back up my comments. The reader shall investigate over and over and judge. It's not for my fame or fortune. It's subjective, Mr. Geologist.

oscar · 2004-07-21 10:51:25

BTW:
It was only as a result of a public outcry that NASA finally directed an orbiter, Mars Pathfinder, to take a look at the Face – but only after a dust storm that covered most of the planet, and after fiddling electronically with the photographs to end up with a fuzzy picture. (Some of the serious work to uncover the distortions was done by the Meta Research Institute under the leadership of the astronomer Thomas Van Flandern). Yet, now distorted or not, the fact remains that the unusual rock is still there and it was done purposely like the art in Marcahuasi , Peru (studied by anthropologist not like geologists I regret to say, Bobby).
That is what happens with science. If a geologist is invited by Egyptologist, the collegues will see that as the wrong intervention..out of place. From what I've seen so far, not only you don' have the skills to see beyond the limitations of the area of your interest but even as geologist I wonder what is your real competence independently of your many years of experience.
Perhaps I need to test you and make some questions about how come you measure activity on time (rather than time) ha-ha-ha! Be careful before answering, Bob. In ancient history and modern data about Cydonia you have been misinformed. Do you wanna be ridiculized also in the are you think you know????

oscar · 2004-07-21 10:54:25

Ooops! I forgot, Bob. Please read in history books the link between Tyrus (Phoenicia) and Sidon (Cydonia).

Cobra Commander · 2004-07-21 10:54:43

Just a thought, but ranting about biblical passages and Masonic rituals doesn't exactly lend credibility to an argument.

oscar · 2004-07-21 11:07:36

Cobra: your statement is correct. Yet, we have to understand the things according to the context of the conversation and use criteria. The episode is related to Freemasons KNOWING ancient religions & Bible baptizing the place with that name. In the book about the experiences of Gulliver though there was no real knowledge about Mars, it was said with hundreds of years anticipation there were 2 Martian moons with the actual characteristics of those satelites..peculiar indeed.
You said to me not to use Bible as argument but since I'm someone with relative culture I realized your message ends with the text of Mormon Book. Since you pay attention to the great civilizations in America (were you think Jesus ressurected to preach them), you're aware those people had great knowledge about space, time and planets...even Venus calendar in Maya civilization is accurate to seconds, even more than our calendars and that is a puzzle for the "experts". Shall I recomend you Maurice Cotterell's book, The Lost Tomb of Viracocha ? You'll find interesting things and codes -Bob needs to read that URGENTLY- about the link between Egypt-Peru-Bolivia-Mexico, that must be good for a Mormon like you, mustn't it?
May I add in your very religion, your "superiors" perform sort of Freemason rituals or are you not yet informed? Cos if you don't....if you progress you will .....after walking going nowhere upside or downside the streets for 2 years.

Cobra Commander · 2004-07-21 11:22:15

In all honesty I hope you're right about Martian monuments and the like, such a find would be absolutely fascinating. But I have yet to see really compelling evidence to support it. Some grainy photos does not constitute proof, regardless of historical or mythological references that support a given conclusion. I'm not actively hostile to your position, just skeptical in the face of the evidence, or rather lack there of.

I'll take a look at The Lost Tomb of Viracocha one of these days, however all attempts to link various ancient civilizations through monuments or architecture (for example) that I've seen thus far have fallen short. Everyone building pyramids and things of that sort, bleh. If you have only rocks and wood to work with and you want to build a tall ediface a pyramid is about all you've got. Much of the speculation I've seen is of that sort.

Finding one on Mars would be interesting, but I've seen sand dunes that look a hell of a lot like a pyramid when the winds are right. Need something more than a few shots from orbit.

You'll find interesting things and codes -Bob needs to read that URGENTLY- about the link between Egypt-Peru-Bolivia-Mexico, that must be good for a Mormon like you, mustn't it?

Actually, I'm an atheist. The 'Book of Mormon' is an interesting read though, from a literary perspective.

REB · 2004-07-21 11:26:01

Oscar, I am also an avid photographer and I know a thing or two about the limits of a picture. Hoagland sees stuff at the limits of an images resolution. He tries to add data beyond the pixel limit. When we do get pictures with better resolution (More pixels) his anomalies always go away, and then he looks towards the new pixel limit for anomalies.

I wish you were right. I would love for there to be artificial structures on Mars. I read Monument to Mars, cover to cover. I wanted to believe and I was hoping Hoagland was right. But he wasn’t. If there are artificial structures on Mars, we have not found them. http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/ext … c.gif]This is a large hill.

People are programmed to see faces. We see them everywhere, in landforms, could, wood grain, you name it.

Mars is a very interesting planet. We don’t need to invent stuff to make it interesting.

REB · 2004-07-21 11:30:21

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/ext … c.gif]This picture is half the size of the one linked to above.

As you can see, the 'face' is a hill. There is some interesting geology here.

Had this picture been taken before the Viking one (Of much lower resolution) then we would not be having this discussion and no one would know who Hoagland is.

oscar · 2004-07-21 12:06:44

Bob & Cobra: First I agree we need to be skeptical, but between that and being cynical is not a big leap. Being a traveller myself and knowing the history of my country (Peru) I never gave importance at all until I have to be there. The photographs deceive. When I was in Egypt myself I could understand the magnitude of watching a stone building with th height of 45 floor skyscraper. The sphinx is not in front or close to the pyramid as we see in every book or magazine but looks like this cos the Pyramid is too huge!!!
It's big enough to see from satelite photograph. I just want to remnd you not to overlook , turn blind eye on or disregard orbit photographs when we're dealing with 2 pairs of Martian pyramids that are higher than 800 meters and 3 km in their sides. The Egyptian face is 144 meters tall (almost the size of Gizah Great Pyramid) and the proportions are pretty much like the film Mission Mars though that stylized face, not leontocephalic-hominid-falcon-bull face.
I have seen also the recent "stones" shown by Nasa and they are odd too. Not only some of them look like jigsaw puzzle but one of them has a total square hole inside. Presence of water, methane, possible bacteria in a meteorite (today Nasa found another rock from Mars in Antartic area), all of these doesn't impress me. There are many things invisible here, right now, that our science doesn't even have the interest to analyze (with exception of few scientists). That's why in my perspective we don't have to limit our vision as dense and material as writers like Zecharia Sitchin, Däniken or J.J.Benítez. Of course, I will have to extend myself in a different conversation that doesn't fit in this thread.
Atheism is a private conclusion, there are no atheistic town, community or country in history. Mostly because in Western doctrine the struggle is against moral or the anthropomorphous God idea and the argument is a bit like Xenophanes...which is inverted (as I discussed in Michio Kaku's physicist forum). The whole idea has a twist if we are deimorphous or teomorphous rather than confusing reality with the reflection in the mirror. But how can we discuss this just with ideas instead of objective realities like being stone with substances that have the same chemical structure than the serotonine or endorphines in the brain....which is -according to humble experts in neurocerebral surgery- as enigmatic as the hollographic universe?
I don't wanna enter in detail about these but I have discussed these ideas with the very people who have presented these in magazines & books, including Jew physicist from Jerusalem University, Jacob Bekenstein , etc, etc, etc.
Just think about it.
Also, Bob, one thing is shooting simple photos and other is using MOLA photos, or infrared, termographic, enhacing images in 3D, spin them 180 degrees and then proyecting light from every possible angle to provoke shadows, analyzing negative photographs. That's important indeed. An example is the Turin Shroud. It doesn't matter if that was or not the Messiah's shroud (in fact the very Biblical evidence contradicts that though is another theme), what is important is the fact we know the details of the image mainly because it was discovered by that negative photo.
That's what I say, when ancient monuments show something hidden is because there are more oddities than the thing there, the answer to the question : why was placed in that particular way in first place?
Regarding Maya pyramids, the FACT is the basis is almost exactly the basis of Gizah. Neither this or the fact the smaller pyramids were built upon a higher place to reach the same height of the higher pyramid, nor the use of the angle 43,5 degrees both in Egypt and Mexico or the similarities of the inner corridors is funny coincidence either. Unfortunately I don't have your personal e-mail to send you interesting photos, Cobra...

http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_2.ht … /mpl_2.htm

http://greatpyramid.org/aip/gr-pyr1.htm … r-pyr1.htm

Not base of evidence, but when coincidences file up again and again and again....you study more and more and more and in fact, sometimes -like myself- take the decision of going there and see by yourself and keep on studying. It must be an act of courage to present yourself and expose yourself to ridiculous as Egyptologist Anthony West (whom I have a chat once and then) :

http://www.aulis.com/twothirds.htm]http … thirds.htm
http://www.mactonnies.com/imperative32. … ive32.html
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/pyramid_p … _pics.html
http://mars-earth.com/cydonia_eygpt]htt … onia_eygpt
http://www.enterprisemission.com/images … /mtm10.JPG
http://www.planetarymysteries.com/mars/ … ASA2f.html

Nop, to find a tetramoulon is not rare at all.

oscar · 2004-07-21 14:14:53

Bob, the magnified photo you show in fact doesn't show a hill as you say. It shows a mountain with the features of an animal in one side and simian face in the other, very similar to cherub depictions in the past. The effect of a shadow in one side enhanced that. Now, if you permit me to add, the work of a geologist is good, yet Hoagland teamed not only with Carl P. Munck (whose work was rejected by the orthodox) but also with Erol O. Torun (professional CARTOGRAPHER) who worked many years for Defense Mapping Agency (now changed the institution changed the name and don't ask why). Not only the MATH -as I say is important- as you can see here:

http://www.greatdreams.com/gem2.htm]www … m/gem2.htm

But it amazes me in the whole area near the Cydonia pyramids we see an isolated hill with a face. It would make me investigate further even if there were many hills with other particularities. That's why I say, you need to search places like this on Earth which have been submitted to natural erosion (specially in a place like Mars with those winds that could rip off astronauts' clothes unless they have special fibers).

http://anthroarcheart.org/chullpas.htm] … ullpas.htm
http://www.lonewolfadventure.com/marcah … lbum2.html
http://www.lonewolfadventure.com/marcah … lbum3.html
http://www.enterprisemission.com/ArtTra … tTrad.html

I personaly climbed up this particular place, Marcahuasi, with the son of the anthropologist and archeologist, Daniel Ruzo, mentioned here:
http://www.labyrinthina.com/marcahua.ht … rcahua.htm

Hoagland mentions this place but he was not there I think. And since I have been in many natural places and seen figures that somehow look human or animal depictions, I know the difference between this and what is depicted in Marcahuasi not only because of the details and the shadow games at particular hours but because of the quantity. That's why I sent Hoagland copies in color of that place. But, it would be good if one day you and cartographers or cryptographers go to that place and do your studies. I said the same thing to Egyptologist Anthony West and he says unfortunately doesn't have the resources to undertake such a trip.
What is written here and I put it again for you to read in detail is important not only for the details for other reason:

http://www.xpeditionsmagazine.com/magaz … ...si.html

I wouldn't believe the part when it mentions the part about witnessing hybrid animalesque creatures IF WERE NOT for a curious experience. I was there with a group of people at night and one of the girls who was with me (not schizophrenic or lunatic) was completely afraid because she SAW THE SAME ENTITIES like trapped in the stone (like the myths mention the PANdora's box-Tesseract-Hypercube for PANdemonium creatures like PAN and tic-tac-tic Chronus, djiings in Aladin lamp, spirits in the desert or in what apostles and apocrypha and Greek names call Tartarous prision of darkness).
The psicology would only say those are archetypes & recognize (more Jung who studied more dreams & myths than his teacher Freud) they are powerful but don't say why the shapes are bizarre and hybrid in all religions. They are there as ontogenetic universal memory burn like fire in the neurons and actually SEEN with the use of hallucinogenic substances.

http://petragrail.tripod.com/megalith.h … alith.html

When I said to West that as Egyptologist he should've imitate the Egyptians who used blue lilly and cocaine & nicotine (not "modern droppings" as stupid critics said with anticipation and imported from where?), opium, etc. Then the flat 2D art of the Egyptians and ancient people would become alive specially in temples which were built with stones polished to optical degrees

to keep the temples dark, then his eyes will see beyond the Thundercat's eye and it will be like nightmare scene of Moses in the animated film "Prince of Egypt". Unfortunately he says he can't bribe his way to use the temples for his personal liking. Pity thing cos I said to him hallucinogenic substances and blood nephesh = soul in Hebrew , was poured in the megalithic places of the world, the navels of the world. In is not coincidence that these same paranormal activities are witnesses by thousands of turists in those places because thr stones seem to charge this energy somehow. In Machu Picchu there are stones (like Intihuatana) that can re-charge your battery or alter the compass. There are places in the world where you turn off the motor in your car and it goes UP against gravity. We're talking about places known by the ancient people who refused work with iron or bronze (not that they didn't know as ignorantly say 99% of the people) and prefered to work with copper to create short circuit to link the whole stone temple to the ground.
Therefore I don't submit to the idea of corporal entities like in the description of the books. It's imposible to stare these things as it is imposible to duplicate your oniric experience of amnesic dream life with a machine. Millions of human beings have been dreaming for thousands of years and that's still very subjective unless you're objectively dreaming. All the meauserment of rapid movement of the eye with eyelids closed measure not the reality of the dream but just the frequence which is a consequence of that paradoxal reality, to have more activity than -what you call it? oh yes, daily consciousness-.
If I say to you a saw a dog barking (in a ghost house) something invisible to my eyes, that's subjective unless your mom or your brother tells you,...or you experience it yourself. Then it becomes "objective". So, where's the machine to check that, not even Kirlian photograph will convince you!
It doesn't matter if I say t' you the fly sees the universe like a jigsaw puzzle composed by 8000 hexagonal omatidies and seeing better than Cinesphere IMAX screen in Toronto. I can't convince you if I say the snake sees the living entities like Predator termographic vision, the eagle with telescope vision, the felines maybe in black & white though some things closer to their vision field could be seen with colors like those tv comercials when it's colored only the thing to be emphasized; or the submarine creatures watching in ultraviolet or infrared light.
All what you see, Bob, even the satelite photos...are just a projection of your visual -and I regret to say your mind limitations- , something already overcome with the use of vegetal substances with pentexil (5 sides) linked to benzene ring. Alcaloids -say the ethonobotanists- are not "secundary" nor inerte products, they are formed in bigger amount in more active tissues in general metabolism, perhaps they are exopheromonies acting helping the symbiosis in biological nest of various species, that is , the transference of chemical language between nature, vegetal and animals and man. Hallucinogenic substances are trasnlinguistic because remembers what you call "past" or "future" (and don't make me talk about physics), a cosmic internet which is natural,a metamatrix , said Terence Mc Kenna.
Yet, in such places, you don't need to be "stone" to see the same things your teenager kids enjoy by ontogenetic memory (when they watch Power Rangers becoming hybrid TRANSFORMERS or Mortal Kmbat heroes of many arms), sometimes it happens. And even in other circumstances when making experiences with quartz...
(DON'T SAY THAT'S RIDICULOUS, YOU'RE USING PENTIUM COS SILICUM WHICH WAS FOUND IN THE JEWELS AND PRTECIOUSSSSS STONES)
...like this:

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/kerub.ht … /kerub.htm

Why would Dr. Dan Burisch PH D in Molecular Biology and Bilogical Systems would expose himself to ridiculous to say that?:

http://solder.ath.cx/Burisch/billh/gane … ganesh.htm

And , just in case you are wondering, I have
not seen anything.
:bars2:

oscar · 2004-07-21 14:41:35

Sumerian depictions show these hybrid creatures. Author Sitchin interprets this was genetic engineering (I don't wanna discuss the thing here, afford & against), but one thing I know. Somehow mankind is going to accept.... (by the will of our powerful governments symbolized with the American eagle, Russian bear, two-headed eagles in Germany, tigers & Tex-dragon China, etc,etc)... the use of transgenic animal DNA into your body...

(something already forbidden in Leviticus law for the same entity who said the circumsition gotta be made in the 8th day of the baby born...the exact day when protrombine & K vitamine is higher than any other day to dodge bloodshed)

Why? Is there an invisible hyperdimensional force behind the madness of the world? Would he transform -like hybrid cherub- like light as it says the Bible in 2 Corinthians 11:14?
The text uses the Greek word "phosphorous" for light. The word "phosphenous" is taken from Greek regarding something in your brain and linked to language. The very same chapter says in 11:3 Satan (Samael, the cherub) deceived Eve in HER MIND FACULTIES.
Wow! That's prety interesting because millions of Christians perhaps doubt if that 'a Freudian symbol or reveals something for real. Like the investigations of anthropologist here:

http://www.jornalinfinito.com.br/series … asp?cod=81
http://www.jornalinfinito.com.br/series … asp?cod=80
http://www.dhushara.com/book/consum/con … onsum1.htm
http://www.dhushara.com/book/wass/wasso … asson3.htm
http://www.umsl.edu/~rkeel/180/hallucin … lucin.html
http://www.peyote.com]http://www.peyote.com
http://www.montana.edu/wwwai/imsd/rezme … ansmit.htm
http://www.montana.edu/wwwai/imsd/rezme … emente.htm

You see the same thing and trees of knowledge in Assyria, Babylon, Sumer with the snake. China didn't import Christian or Judaism dogmas, why would they have to accept the same Genesis "fable" of Eve being deceived by the "tempter" in one of 2 trees, a woman who was "coveting" the fruit of one of those 2 trees:
http://www.creationism.org/chinese2.jpg … inese2.jpg
http://www.creationism.org/csshs/v06n2p … 6n2p04.htm
The very word spiritism is taken from Greek "pharmakya" meaning drugstore because it was the MEDIUM to be in contact with that hyperdimension. And you have heard million times in the news the parents murdering their own babies after they got stone with cocaine, etc.... Hearing voices. And the near death experiences after you get the anesthesic... what the HECK you know about the mind and the hollographic universe or hyperdmensions. We are completely ignorant.

oscar · 2004-07-21 14:45:09

Perhaps you need to record the Chinese language in the site. Unfortunately I can't write more Chinese ideograms to keep on explaining in more details...

Spiritwalker777 · 2004-07-21 15:13:06

hello I am here........Take me to your leader !!!!!

Spiritwalker777 · 2004-07-21 15:25:52

We are completely ignorant.

yup

:band:

Spiritwalker777 · 2004-07-21 15:31:12

Oscar by the way this ,Genesis of Eden Diversity Encyclopedia, is a great web page, now I am stumped, since I found the info. on the food of the gods , I am stumped .

I am in silient wait and see mode, although I still am looking through cave drawings ,pictographs & petroglyphs .

http://www.petroglyphs.us/]http://www.petroglyphs.us/

oscar · 2004-07-21 15:52:56

In these petroglyphs sometimes there depictions of the odd entities beyond what we see with our eyes. Picasso and Dali used Cubism and Surrealism but they were inspired by the concepts of physic hyperdimensions. Cubism is a word comng from the idea of Hypercubes, did you see the film Cube II, Hypercube?
You know already these photos Spiritwalker, but probably these gentlemen would like to stare DOUBLE HEADED-CATS or cats with "wings" (Feline Cutaneous Asthenia), 138 reported sightings and 28 documented:

http://www.messybeast.com/winged-cats.h … d-cats.htm
http://www.messybeast.com/freak-face.ht … k-face.htm
http://www.messybeast.com/freak-conjoin … joined.htm
Now, tell me. If these monstruosities are not hoax because they also appear in books of mutations (I have read them) but these intelligent fellows DON'T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST CLUE ABOUT SUCH THINGS existing in the observable universe we live in...do you think it would be easy to convince them about invisible realms and hyperdimensional creatures with 4 faces in a single head and wings like having "eyes" (a peacock-symbol of Devil too), etc?
Sitchin and Däniken can imagine Ezekiel's vision like Nasa engineer Joseph Blumrich, a quadruple helicopter with propeller system under the bell shape techno UFO:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage … 5/ufo4.htm

They won't (they can't) see the techno is just an image of reality although that's like an invisible "lunar lander" shape of a bacteriophagea virus:

http://www.virology.net/Big_Virology/BV … NAmyo.html

:down:

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