ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

GCNRevenger · 2004-07-19 09:47:54

Nooo, the explosives will be to generate shocks for seismic sensors launched by the orbiter, the Hidalgo spacecraft is a simple impactor... it wouldn't make much sense to equip it with explosives anyway since it isn't intended to survive impact. So, it is still touting the impactor technique as a means to move threat asteroids, which is not practical.

Tastes like "suuure, the Shuttle can fly cheeply, $65M a shot tops, twice a month!"

Soyuz · 2004-07-19 11:15:16

Actually if you read the press release it mentions explosives..................

I don't seem to be able to find the word explosives in the press release. Could you point it out for me?

So, it is still touting the impactor technique as a means to move threat asteroids, which is not practical.

Where do they mention this in the press release? The media may claim this, but you know how the media are, they have to make the mission more spectacular. And maybe also the company who proposed the mission, but they have to sell something. I think ESA is well aware that throwing nukes at an asteroid isn't going to move the thing a bit. They just want to know what the asteroid is made off. And with this knowledge you can look for methods to move an asteroid. Do you know a better method to know iff the asteroid is made out of loose rock or something else?

GCNRevenger · 2004-07-19 11:42:12

Hey, if the ESA wants to launch a mission that uses an impactor/penitrator to blow a hole in the asteroid so you can look at what its made of... then they ought to.. you know.. just kinda.. say so.. and not hail this as a means to push the rock and save the Earth. Its dishonest.

Again, so quick to defend the Europeans... where is the defense of Nasa?

C M Edwards · 2004-07-19 13:22:24

Two important rules of thumb in comedy: Timing is everything, and always tell the audience you're serious.

ESA seems well prepared for this mission.

Soyuz · 2004-07-19 13:30:26

Hey, if the ESA wants to launch a mission that uses an impactor/penitrator to blow a hole in the asteroid so you can look at what its made of... then they ought to.. you know.. just kinda.. say so.. and not hail this as a means to push the rock and save the Earth. Its dishonest.

Again, where do they say this in the press release?

Harris says, “When we do actually find a hazardous asteroid, you could imagine a Don Quijote-type mission as a precursor to a mitigation mission. It will tell us how the target responds to an impact and will help us to develop a much more effective mitigation mission.”

Again, so quick to defend the Europeans... where is the defense of Nasa?

Probably because i'm a European, and when you start attacking NASA i'll probably defend them too.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2004-07-27 10:07:46

looks like the project will go ahead

Palomar · 2004-07-27 10:23:06

looks like the project will go ahead

*I'm glad YLR brought this topic back up because now I remember a question I've been wanting to ask.

I'm wondering what it'll -LOOK- like when Hidalgo smashes into the asteroid. I know Sancho will be clicking away during that time, but since it's 10 years in the future at least:

Will there be a white-cloud sparkly explosion ala 1970s TV sci-fi special effects?

A little fireball?

Or nothing, just Hidalgo hitting and crumpling up?

Just kind of wondering what collisions in outer space (metal on rock especially) would look like. :-\

--Cindy

Rxke · 2004-07-27 11:10:03

I guess the scientists (or idiots, depending on who you ask :;): ) are equally curious to find out...

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2004-12-13 23:42:18

artists impressions in these pictures but they might look a bit shined up to look more dramatic

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/s … 40713.html

http://www.astronomynow.com/news/040714 … _neo.shtml

SpaceNut · 2004-12-14 06:34:16

This sounds like the comet smashing Deep impact probe the US is doing as well.

I Still wonder about all these left overs from the solar systems development thou. There eventual use to aid man in furthering his presence amongst the stars and for future colonization efforts.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2004-12-25 07:49:15

And say the ESA does do the mission... it suceeds in sliiightly nudging a big rock, enough to detect but nowhere near enough to avoid collision... what will be the reaction by the science-illiterate public?
"Hey wow, somthing practical from space science besides weather/comm/GPS satelites! Those wiley, clever, smart Europeans... its so simple, you just hit the rock with a big block of cast iron! Why can't NASA do stuff like that? Why didn't they think of it? Can't they do anything but take pictures? They can't even fix the Space Shuttle! ...And they have six times the budget.

what the heck was all that ranting about ?

:hm:

If NASA does their mission then good on them, if the ESA is doing all alternative but similar mission then good on the Euros aswell

Euler · 2004-12-25 19:10:44

Using an impactor might be a good option for 2004 MN4. Using very rough calculations, it looks like an ion engine probe lifted by a Delta IV heavy should be able to nudge the asteroid by about the radius of the Earth if it impacted 10 years before the asteroid's possible collision with Earth. Of coarse, this is a very rough estimate, given that we don't know the mass of the asteroid or how much of it will be ejected by the impact.

Edit: you would also have consider the possibility that the probe might punch through the asteroid or destroy the asteroid completely. The gravitational binding of the asteroid can't be very high, so if it is made of rubble the probe should have enough kinetic energy to destroy it.

MarsDog · 2004-12-26 10:18:08

The gravitational binding of the asteroid can't be very high, so if it is made of rubble the probe should have enough kinetic energy to destroy it.

Some of the energy remains in motion of the center of mass
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_of_mass]Momentum is conserved - sum of Mass x Velocity for all parts)

The rest of the energy is turned to http://home.att.net/~eepalmer/Build/bui … .html]heat

Interestingly, the asteroid would have to be very large to melt from accretion.
Smaller asteroids would not be destroyed, but just split into smaller parts.

Euler · 2004-12-26 16:07:00

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitatio … vitational binding energy

Interestingly, the asteroid would have to be very large to melt from accretion.
Smaller asteroids would not be destroyed, but just split into smaller parts.

In that case, it should work well. The probe would have sufficient kinetic energy that each piece of the asteroid would fly away from the center at a speed higher than the escape velocity.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-09-26 10:07:34

Don Quijote
http://www.thespacesite.com/260905_don_ … cting.html
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=17879
ESA selects targets

SpaceNut · 2005-09-27 06:17:11

yup here is the ESA sites link

Don Quijote is a NEO deflection test mission based entirely on conventional spacecraft technologies. It would comprise two spacecraft - one of them (Hidalgo) impacting an asteroid at a very high relative speed while a second one (Sancho) would arrive earlier at the same asteroid and remain in its vicinity before and after the impact to measure the variation on the asteroid’s orbital parameters, as well as to study the object.

ESA selects targets for asteroid-deflecting mission Don Quijote

Based on the recommendations of asteroid experts, ESA has selected two target asteroids for its Near-Earth Object deflecting mission, Don Quijote.
The asteroids’ temporary designations are 2002 AT4 and 1989 ML.
The current scenario envisages two spacecraft in separate interplanetary trajectories. One spacecraft (Hidalgo) will impact an asteroid, the other (Sancho) will arrive earlier at the target asteroid, rendezvous and orbit the asteroid for several months, observing it before and after the impact to detect any changes in its orbit.

This will be interesting....

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2007-09-20 21:09:18

Learning How to Stop Dangerous Asteroids

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#26 2004-07-19 09:47:54

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#27 2004-07-19 11:15:16

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#28 2004-07-19 11:42:12

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#29 2004-07-19 13:22:24

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#30 2004-07-19 13:30:26

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#31 2004-07-27 10:07:46

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#32 2004-07-27 10:23:06

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#33 2004-07-27 11:10:03

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#34 2004-12-13 23:42:18

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#35 2004-12-14 06:34:16

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#36 2004-12-25 07:49:15

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#37 2004-12-25 19:10:44

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#38 2004-12-26 10:18:08

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#39 2004-12-26 16:07:00

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#40 2005-09-26 10:07:34

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#41 2005-09-27 06:17:11

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

#42 2007-09-20 21:09:18

Re: ESA: Move an Asteroid - ...Sancho & Hidalgo/"Don Quijote"

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