Nutrition

John Creighton · 2004-07-13 10:30:26

I have been watching the show balance some lately (should I admit that?). Anyway I find it interesting how different aspects of food effect your body. Of course not all my interest comes from that show. For instance I learned from someone that alcoholics who get most of the calories from alcohol suffer memory loss due to certain vitamin deficiencies. I’ve also learned from the old discussion form that there are certain amino acids that your body can’t produce and I have learned from the news that there are certain fats your body can’t produce. For instance omega 3 is a fat your body can’t produce and it is important to brain growth in young children. It is found in fish, flax, and new types of eggs and milk. My interest here is two fold. I want to learn more about nutrition and I want to discuss software to aid a person in meal planning and diet analysis. More to come.

John Creighton · 2004-07-13 10:35:07

First a new nutrition note. If the Martians only had one food, the should have beans. By beans I mean kidney beans and lima beans, maybe not green or yellow beans because I think they belong to a different family. The family of food I am thinking about I think has the name http://www.mycustompak.com/healthNotes/ … tm]legumes. This includes other types of foods, for instance chick pees. These foods tend to be high in fiber protein and iron. I heard someone say before if there was any single food someone should live off it would be beans. I believe Chili will be a popular dish on mars.

RobS · 2004-07-13 12:30:30

Beano will be popular as well; consider the impact on farting of the lower air pressure of a habitat. . . the fart gas will occupy several times the volume it needs on Earth.

But seriously, I agree beans are very important, because of their proteins.

-- RobS

Rxke · 2004-07-15 23:54:43

I've heard exactly the same claim with brown rice?

But you get extremely thin, after awhile...

Anyhow, I mainly live off beans, rice, fungi (and bread.)
I'm not a vegetarian, but I increasingly rarely seem to buy meat, lately. I just forget about it, weird.

DERF · 2004-07-16 08:10:17

peanuts/peanut butter fit into the legume category as well?

Pretty good stuff:

-lots of protein
-doesnt go bad
-won't float away in zero-G
-sticks to any other food (if you want the extreme luzury of two simultaneous flavours)

John Creighton · 2004-07-16 12:31:12

Isn’t Beano a supplement? I am not saying that Martians won’t take supplements.
P.S. Peanuts are also legumes but I think they are higher in fat then most legumes.

John Creighton · 2004-07-16 12:42:57

Okay, some thoughts about diet planning and monitoring software. The user should record in the software what the person eats. It should keep track of all the nutritional content of the food. The user can be very specific and name the exact brand and quantity or moderately specific and say something like two servings of fruit.

The program then should try to extrapolate the nutritional content and calories the best it can. It should use as much intelligence as it can in this extrapolation. This would probably involve a neural network. The neural network should linked with a relational database. The inputs would range from one which is true to negative one which is false and zero which is have know idea. So the optimized neural network may end up closely representing some fuzzy logic function. Once the software deduces what nutritional content the user may be deficient in it will try and recommend some meal suggestions. If the user provides feedback as to the extent of how much he likes the meals the program can also try to extrapolate what meals the person likes. For instance the computer may deduce the person doesn’t like Chinese food unless it comes in a crispy shell. Clearly other things can be taken in account when the software suggests meals. This could include the quantities of food the user has available, how long that food should last and the cost of each food.

MarsDog · 2004-07-17 00:42:44

Irish ate potatoes and were healthy.
Soyabean sprouts contain both root and leaf.
If you have a worm tunneling in the potato, then, there is the B12.
-
Some people in India get along well on 700 calories/day.
Maybe there will be screening for low calorie usage.

DERF · 2004-07-20 16:54:52

Some people in India get along well on 700 calories/day.
Maybe there will be screening for low calorie usage.

But how much do these people accomplish other than just surviving? We need healthy, alert, active people all the time (who also have a warm glow in thier bellies).

MarsDog · 2004-07-21 01:01:46

Eat 50% less and live 50% longer. Beyond 50% is malnutrition.
If you want to get maximum usage out of the astronauts, you will have to starve them.
-
Skinny people are more alert and active. Best is a little hungry.
Astronauts might be selected for small size and low calorie usage.
They would look like the short aliens in science fiction movies.
Sumo wrestlers need not apply ?

John Creighton · 2004-07-21 21:25:32

If I don’t have enough food in my I have less energy and trouble concentrating. I suggest that food and water are very inportant for mental work, and still inportant for physical work.

MarsDog · 2004-07-22 09:48:24

Lot of food, and the blood goes from the head to the stomach.
Stomach exercises, such as Yoga and Tai Chi, help to regulate.
Strenuous exercise makes overeating uncomfortable.
Best overall indicator of caloric intake is a persons weight.
-
Interesting, that people predisposed to diabetes, consume considerably less calories. Their temperature does not increase after a big meal, as it does in normal people. Diabetic genes enhance survival during famine.

John Creighton · 2004-08-11 13:35:53

Irish ate potatoes and were healthy.
Soyabean sprouts contain both root and leaf.
If you have a worm tunneling in the potato, then, there is the B12.
-
Some people in India get along well on 700 calories/day.
Maybe there will be screening for low calorie usage.

Hmmm... worms should also provide iron and protien. Anyway I am sure they ate lots of other vegtibals too. I wonder how good peoples nutrition was back then. Wasn't everyone short. What might of caused this.

C M Edwards · 2004-08-11 15:45:12

Two fields besides nutrition might offer insights on the “less food = more performance” hypothesis: Sociology and Child Care.

Regarding the extreme end of the dietary spectrum, starvation, I have some personal observations. As a foster parent, and a former victim of child neglect myself, I can offer anecdotes from my own experience suggesting that neglect – and starvation is common in neglected children – does indeed temporarily accelerate certain aspects of intellectual development in children. Unfortunately, this tends to come at the expense of retarding development in other areas, and if the neglect is allowed to continue even those intellectual skills that were briefly enhanced will plateau. In spite of having single areas where they excel, neglected children tend to do less well on developmental and intelligence tests. For example, I taught myself to cook my own food at the age of three, but could not talk or understand eye contact. I’ve no indication that these shortfalls are the result of lack of intellectual interaction with parents, either. Some of the poorest fed children you’ve ever seen still had playtime with Daddy and Mommy.

So, in general, if you want to teach your child to bake at age three and think you can accomplish this by using starvation to motivate him a little, buy yo’ ass a breadmaker and leave yo’ kid alone. It won’t work.

Apparently, food is quite tightly tied up with group social dynamics as well as intellectual development. Its effect on group morale should never be underestimated.

I strongly recommend that you read Jack Stuster’s book, _Bold Endeavors: Lessons from Polar and Space Exploration_ from the US Naval Press. (ISBN: 155750749X) It’s an analysis of the sociology of crews serving in extreme environments. IMHO, it’s one of the most important books a space travel enthusiast can read. If you think that people should go to Mars, read Zubrin. If you think that you personally should go, read Stuster.

Stuster’s book has an entire chapter devoted to food. The condition of an isolated crew’s food can determine morale as much as any other factor of their working conditions. Morale determines crew productivity – arguably more so than average intelligence. It’s generally considered better to overfeed crews and accept the small loss of efficiency this causes than to underfeed them and risk sparking a mutiny – and bad food has been cited in more than one account of mutiny. Ask yourself this: in the absence of combat, would you prefer a bunch of fat & happy ordinary Joe’s pulling for you, or a bunch of lean & hungry geniuses scheming against you?

Zubrin claims that the crew will be one of the strongest mission components, and Stuster’s analysis supports that claim. But you’d better feed them.

Morris · 2004-08-11 21:11:05

I heard someone say before if there was any single food someone should live off it would be beans

Hmmm. My understanding is that a "best food" cannot be a single vegetable because all vegetables lack a significant amount of one or more essential amino acids. I have heard that beans are good, and that a mixture of beans and corn will provide all the essential amino acids. Of course there are other important dietary substances as well, but it's the amino acids that are the essence of proteins.

Morris · 2004-08-11 21:24:01

I strongly recommend that you read Jack Stuster’s book, _Bold Endeavors: Lessons from Polar and Space Exploration_ from the US Naval Press. (ISBN: 155750749X) It’s an analysis of the sociology of crews serving in extreme environments. IMHO, it’s one of the most important books a space travel enthusiast can read. If you think that people should go to Mars, read Zubrin. If you think that you personally should go, read Stuster.

<chuckle> And thanks much for the reference.

John Creighton · 2004-08-12 08:59:07

Hmmm. My understanding is that a "best food" cannot be a single vegetable because all vegetables lack a significant amount of one or more essential amino acids. I have heard that beans are good, and that a mixture of beans and corn will provide all the essential amino acids. Of course there are other important dietary substances as well, but it's the amino acids that are the essence of proteins.

Hmmm… I have had chili with corn in it. There we go all the amino acids. I wonder what else such a diet might be missing?

SpaceNut · 2004-08-12 10:39:53

So far I believe the only vegitable growth experiment has been done with a variety of snow peas on the ISS. Does anyone know of any others that have been tried?

John Creighton · 2004-08-12 11:10:46

So far I believe the only vegitable growth experiment has been done with a variety of snow peas on the ISS. Does anyone know of any others that have been tried?

Well, I think wheat was grown on mir.

Morris · 2004-08-12 11:29:27

Hmmm… I have had chili with corn in it. There we go all the amino acids. I wonder what else such a diet might be missing?

If your chili included any meat, it had all the essential amino acids anyway because animal muscle is a complete protein. But the beans and corn would provide carbohydrates. I'm not sure about the fat. We need the "essential fatty acids". The most common source of these in typical daily diets is salad dressing but some nuts and seeds are rich in them. Other good fats are contained in fish, and Vitamin D in fish oils. Beef fat might contain some essential fats, but you might have trouble with very lean meat such as venison. Then some fruits, green leafy vegetables, and orange vegetables are needed for vitamins unless you plan to take these in a pill. A pill would also provide common minerals and trace elements.

BTW, I love chile and would not be unhappy with a menu which included it frequently <g>.

MarsDog · 2004-08-12 12:32:44

http://www.vegsource.com/attwood/comple … in.htm]The old ideas about the necessity of carefully combining vegetables at every meal to ensure the supply of essential amino acids has been totally refuted

The minimum requirements may be easy to meet.
-
An interesting finding is food addiction. Working on the same parts of the brain, addictive substances tie in with survival, as can some foods. In addition, a mothers preference is passed on to the unborn child. Some slightly addictive substances are useful. Extremely addictive feels so good and the person looses interest in eating, as emplified by the skinny drug addicts.

John Creighton · 2004-08-12 12:49:33

http://www.vegsource.com/attwood/comple … in.htm]The old ideas about the necessity of carefully combining vegetables at every meal to ensure the supply of essential amino acids has been totally refuted

Hmmmm....Interesting article. I wonder what the author would have to say about protein supplements taken by body builders.

John Creighton · 2004-08-12 13:01:48

hmmmm....The site of the last link seems to suggest we consume to much protein. Isn't Nutrition funny. There aren’t any references provided at this site. I hope it is legitimate information and not vegetarian propaganda so to speak.

The true connection between milk and strong bones isn't exactly what the dairy industry has been telling us all these years. Calcium balance, the relationship between the intake and loss of the mineral determines bone density, mostly during childhood and adolescence. Good bone density attained by the age of 18 usually lasts a lifetime for people consuming a balanced plant-based diet and remaining physically active. Milk and other dairy products, although rich in calcium, are high in animal protein, which has been shown to create calcium loss through the urinary tract. A 1994 National Institutes of Health Consensus Conference concluded that calcium balance and bone density depended at least 3O percent on the ratio of intake to loss, not on calcium intake alone. According to a report in Science magazine in 1986, evidence is accumulating that calcium intake (considered alone) is not related to bone density
This may explain why countries consuming the most milk also have the highest incidence of osteoporosis. Exceptions exist, but a common determining factor seems to be the high protein consumption in populations who require very high levels of calcium intake.

http://www.vegsource.com/attwood/milk.h … d/milk.htm

Again back to the http://www.vegsource.com/attwood/comple … n.htm]last link it said the Chinese consume the optimum amount of protein while north Americans consume so little. Is this just the current generation of Chinese. I know there parents were shorter. What where there parents missing in there diet. I don’t think it is all genetics because the younger generation of Chinese people are taller.

John Creighton · 2004-08-12 13:15:42

I found this interesting from the last link:

Calcium in Milligrams per 100 Calories
-------------------------------------------
Arugula..........................1,300
Watercress...................... 800
Turnip greens.................. .650
Collard greens................. 548
Mustard greens.................490
Spinach........................... 450
Broccoli.......................... 387
Swiss cheese................... 250
Milk (2-percent).............. 245
Green onions................... 240
Okra............................... 213
Cabbage......................... 196
Whole milk..................... 190
Cheddar cheese.............. 179
American cheese............. 160

BTW who eats Turnip greens?

C M Edwards · 2004-08-12 15:05:45

Me! Collards are better, though.

I am surprised to see that they contain more calcium per calorie than milk. Probably because of milk fat...

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