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#26 2004-06-28 16:17:52

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,934
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Re: Euro version of Mars Direct - Thoughts?

Energia could be reactivated. The V-2 could be reactivated. The Hindenburg could be rebuilt.
Shuttle-C will take much longer, cost lots more, lift much less, and be unreliable. Like everything else to do with Shuttle, it is cursed.

Saturn would be easier to revive than Energia, as I said earlier. And we know Saturn works.

I'm afraid I have to agree with GCNRevenger on this one, the Saturn V was a good ship but it's gone. At one point I tried to track down what happened to the Saturn V; 2 are rusted from lying on their side outdoors in the rain, and a complete set of test stages is enough for a 3rd vehicle, but it's also rusting in the rain. One set has been brought inside at the Apollo-Saturn center at KSC, but those stages were left outside for years so they aren't flight capable. The interstages were used as storage sheds for years, but two Saturn V historians tried to track them down and can't find what happened to them. The tower from two of the Mobile Launchers were converted to launch pad static service structures for Shuttle. The third tower is lying in a field, cut in pieces and rusting. The Mobile Launchers themselves have been converted into Mobile Launch Platforms for Shuttle. Face facts, in order to ensure Shuttle was completed, NASA "burned the ships". That is, in order to motivate everyone involved to ensure they move forward with Shuttle, they deliberately destroyed Saturn V. It's gone now. The facility to manufacture the first stage has been converted to make Shuttle external tanks. The engines are no longer in production. The early 1960's vintage computer is several generations obsolete. Trying to recreate Saturn V now would be as large a task as developing a new launcher. Shuttle-C would be less work.

Ps. Energia launched twice. We know it works.

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#27 2004-06-28 16:25:48

smurf975
Member
From: Netherlands
Registered: 2004-05-30
Posts: 402
Website

Re: Euro version of Mars Direct - Thoughts?

The problem is the "not invented here" doctrine. Even if the Energia would have a warp drive, the US government couldn't do much about it as they must try to support local businesses before anything else.

Tax payers money should stay in the country. If you want to make exceptions ok, but I think its a good doctrine in general.


Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?

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#28 2004-06-28 16:40:24

Euler
Member
From: Corvallis, OR
Registered: 2003-02-06
Posts: 922

Re: Euro version of Mars Direct - Thoughts?

I did not forget Italy, but ESA is a space organisation of different states and if two of the three main partners are not willing to invest Italy cannot go on its own.

Isn't Italy building an ISS module on their own (outside of the ESA)?

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#29 2004-06-28 16:47:45

Grypd
Member
From: Scotland, Europe
Registered: 2004-06-07
Posts: 1,879

Re: Euro version of Mars Direct - Thoughts?

Well something happened today i really thought would not.

The Galileo system of Gps satelites the planned european version will be usable in conjunction with the USA's version. This was agreed at the conference today.

What does this mean, well politically it means that something that was a bone of contention between the USA and NASA and Europe and Esa has resulted in union to get it to work better actually delivering benefits to people.

I really thought that with the recent tensions there would have ended up two competing versions of the gps system.
My usual optimistic self had thought no chance of agreement there, but i was pleasantly found wrong.

What does this mean well it could result in real improved relations between the space authorities and it may bring the idea of better space access?


Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.

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#30 2004-06-28 19:51:35

smurf975
Member
From: Netherlands
Registered: 2004-05-30
Posts: 402
Website

Re: Euro version of Mars Direct - Thoughts?

Well something happened today i really thought would not.

The Galileo system of Gps satelites the planned european version will be usable in conjunction with the USA's version. This was agreed at the conference today.

What does this mean, well politically it means that something that was a bone of contention between the USA and NASA and Europe and Esa has resulted in union to get it to work better actually delivering benefits to people.

I really thought that with the recent tensions there would have ended up two competing versions of the gps system.
My usual optimistic self had thought no chance of agreement there, but i was pleasantly found wrong.

What does this mean well it could result in real improved relations between the space authorities and it may bring the idea of better space access?

To me it just means they agreed to use TCP/IP for networking or use HTML for the WWW and so fort.

Basically they will use the same communication standard so devices made in or for a particular country are interchangeable with another. Not a big to me happens all the time in the computer world.


Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?

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#31 2004-06-29 03:33:04

Grypd
Member
From: Scotland, Europe
Registered: 2004-06-07
Posts: 1,879

Re: Euro version of Mars Direct - Thoughts?

What it means is that the GPS can be switched off in an area if it was so wanted. This has never happened but it has always been a means to hurt enemies.

The Galileo system will as it uses more satelites and broader coverage allow improved resolution. This means its applications for civilian life are huge. It will allow driverless cars that "know" where they are using GPS. This is science fiction stuff which came a lot lot closer.


Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.

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#32 2004-06-29 05:05:28

Algol
Member
From: London
Registered: 2003-04-25
Posts: 196

Re: Euro version of Mars Direct - Thoughts?

What it means is that the GPS can be switched off in an area if it was so wanted. This has never happened but it has always been a means to hurt enemies.

This is a potential problem though - Galileo is designed as a civilian run system for civilian use. Its high resolution will give it an unprecedented range of applications including flying planes and controlling transport networks (it will even work effectively in urban areas). The probelem is that the US military has 'reserved' the right to jam it at a moments notice without asking permission which introduces massive reliability issues and could potentyially damage its commercial viability.

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#33 2004-06-29 17:05:23

Grypd
Member
From: Scotland, Europe
Registered: 2004-06-07
Posts: 1,879

Re: Euro version of Mars Direct - Thoughts?

Ah but they can jam it only in one area like any other contibuting partner to it, And vice versa the European Union has got the same powers and a bit stronger as they will actually be running it to do the same.

PS both China and Russia are partners of the new system.


Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.

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#34 2005-07-10 06:30:38

Yang Liwei Rocket
Member
Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: Euro version of Mars Direct - Thoughts?

Don't forget Italy, The pressurised ATV's are mainly being built there... (Of course, with populist Berlusconi at the helm, sigh... Who knows what future will bring. Being a media magnate, at least he has *some* vested interest in the space-industry (TV-sats, anone?))

ATVs should be a good help for the space station


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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