Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

drewtreptow · 2004-06-19 07:17:04

Hey everybody, Ive visited this board for a while and thought i would actually post something...

If youre looking for something thats going to make mars profitable you need to do better than heavy water or entertainment or even precious medals. We need something thats really profitable...illegal drugs and weapons grade plutonium and uranium.

I think these are both logical choices for exports to earth. If were going to have all these nuclear reactors that produce all our power, Mars is going to have a lot of enriched uranium and weapons grade plutonium just "laying around". Im sure some country would pay top dollar for it. Hell, the US might even pay us double the going rate just to make sure it gets into the wrong hands. And say it does get into the wrong hands, who are we objective Martians to say whos morally fit or not. And if somebody gets blown up because of it, its all earths problem and not ours.

As for illegal drugs i think its inevitable. Mars is one big huge lawless place with people struggling to get by. If you look around the world those conditions(almost always) lead to people turning to growing drugs to make there means. These drugs could be a "cash" crop for mars, like tobacco was for early north america. These drugs have a lot more value on the open market then almost anything else.

So how about it folks? From what i have been reading on this board, everyone seems to be so pro-mars no matter what the costs, risks, or even who its done by(I'm with you on that). How about breaking a fews laws (not ours) to get it done. Discuss.

Martian Republic · 2004-06-19 08:22:05

If youre looking for something thats going to make mars profitable you need to do better than heavy water or entertainment or even precious medals. We need something thats really profitable...illegal drugs and weapons grade plutonium and uranium.
So how about it folks?

We want to get away from criminal activities in space and not create a Mafia or crime syndicate. When you dealing with the criminal element like that, you will also have a tendency to develop piracy in space and that kind of activities too. You will also tend to get government black bag operation that will be running through those criminal elements. The best way to stop that from happening, is not even choose to go down that road at all.

Larry,

Rxke · 2004-06-19 08:54:04

Hmmm...

Moral stuff aside, i think it will be all but impossible to get through "customs"... Unauthorized launch from either Earth or Mars will be easy to see/track on radar etc, and surely in the near future just *any* launch will be monitored very carefully (NORAD etc...)

So you'd either have to convince a spacefaring nation to smuggle your contraband secretly, using their 'flag' or..

(hmmm... or what? I dunno...)

Smuggling depends on the fact that you can "hide" your stuff in the immense flow of world (legal) traffic, or you can get through a border unnoticed.

Two things that will not be the case, IMO.

Although i could see secret 'scientific' stuff getting smuggled: stem-cell technology, or GM stuff, etc...

JimM · 2004-06-19 09:22:30

The one thing that costs essentially nothing to export in terms of transport costs is information; data, be it scientific ... or porn?

OTOH, why go all the way to Mars? Just about anywhere in interplanetary space would do just as well--and better than Mars, which keeps rotating-- as the place to locate your transmitter.

All right then, how about off-earth banking? You know, where you can stash all your ill-gotten gains so nobody knows?

Now I've had a chance to think about it, banking might well be the key. It's ideal-- all that has to move back and forth is information, and the profits are huge. Now suppose a condition of keeping your banking on Mars was that you had to visit the place at least once every ten (say) years?

Then of course, to qualify as a Martian citizen and so gain tax-exempt status from every other government, you'd have to visit every five years, say?

Alt2War · 2004-06-19 09:44:13

Hmmm...
Moral stuff aside, i think it will be all but impossible to get through "customs"... Unauthorized launch from either Earth or Mars will be easy to see/track on radar etc, and surely in the near future just *any* launch will be monitored very carefully (NORAD etc...)
So you'd either have to convince a spacefaring nation to smuggle your contraband secretly, using their 'flag' or..
(hmmm... or what? I dunno...)
Smuggling depends on the fact that you can "hide" your stuff in the immense flow of world (legal) traffic, or you can get through a border unnoticed.
Two things that will not be the case, IMO.
Although i could see secret 'scientific' stuff getting smuggled: stem-cell technology, or GM stuff, etc...

Customs cannot check stuff falling down from outside the atmosphere.

With a 14 minute wait between transactions, Pr0n and Banking dont seem too convenient.

Dook · 2004-06-19 09:59:35

I certainly would not approve of any type of exploration funded by illegal activity. It seems to me that some of the opinions posted on this forum are influenced by some books other than The Case for Mars.

Any mars colony will be dependant on the earth for a very, very, long time. Perhaps in a thousand years or so, when there is enough oxygen in the atmosphere, maybe then mars will be independant and able to have a full civilization with all the same problems we have here.

Rxke · 2004-06-19 10:03:23

Customs cannot check stuff falling down from outside the atmosphere.

Why not? You mean legally or practically?

drewtreptow · 2004-06-19 11:18:02

They will be able to track the illegal shipment as they fall throught the atmosphere but the smugglers will be able to tell the when and the where the shipment lands. With current tech NORAD may be able to track us(if they can pick us out among all the space junk out there then they are damn good), but will they be able to do anything about it? I know there developing stuff to shoot down satelites now, but will they be able to shoot down a moving target as opposided to a target that they know the orbit of for sure. Is blowing up drug shipments going to be worth the expense when the shipment may not even end up on their country.

Drugs can be easily produced and have incredible high value. Plus we can determine the when and the where these drugs land at which i think will add to there value.

If we are really going to colonize mars, we have to find some way to justify the costs that earth is going to be spending on mars. We most likely wont be getting rich off it either we will mostly be trading for equipment and nitrates so we can grow more food(and more drugs) in the martian soil.

Information is going to be a commodity but it will take a couple years for mars to start developing enough to do that. Illegal goods will help kick-start the Martian economy in the early years until transportation costs come down and we can export precious minerals.

All right then, how about off-earth banking? You know, where you can stash all your ill-gotten gains so nobody knows?

Nice. Another important illegal activity.

Martian Republic · 2004-06-19 12:15:02

They will be able to track the illegal shipment as they fall throught the atmosphere but the smugglers will be able to tell the when and the where the shipment lands. With current tech NORAD may be able to track us(if they can pick us out among all the space junk out there then they are damn good), but will they be able to do anything about it? I know there developing stuff to shoot down satelites now, but will they be able to shoot down a moving target as opposided to a target that they know the orbit of for sure. Is blowing up drug shipments going to be worth the expense when the shipment may not even end up on their country.

NORAD already has the technology to track the contraband of illegal drugs or nuclear waist. They may not currently have the technology to shoot it down right now, but that would change once we develop laser weapons. Those weapons would be a point and shoot kind of weapons and you would almost certainty hit what your shooting at. You along with that ship you’re on ship smuggling those illegal drugs would get blown to pieces. If I were the President of the United States, I would defenetly give the order to shoot it down and end that smuggling once and for all. End of problem! And if I didn’t do it, the Russians or the Chinese might do it.

Larry,

Palomar · 2004-06-19 15:46:56

:down:

Mars is one big huge lawless place

*That's your view of what it'll be. I don't share your view at all.

You asked for our input, there's mine.

Turn Mars into a free-for-all for criminals? No.

--Cindy

P.S.: http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2086]A thread which may be of additional interest for others' views of similar matters, including mine...

MarsDog · 2004-06-19 17:02:29

Laws are for regimentation and control.
In a perfectly regimented society, all that is not illegal is mandatory.
Different rules for different folks (enforcement)
-
Of course, there will be incentives to make people "gentle and agriculture oriented".
Will it be the stick or the carrot?

smurf975 · 2004-06-20 01:55:16

NORAD already has the technology to track the contraband of illegal drugs or nuclear waist. They may not currently have the technology to shoot it down right now, but that would change once we develop laser weapons. Those weapons would be a point and shoot kind of weapons and you would almost certainty hit what your shooting at.

It maybe able to do it someday but will it be allowed to do it? I mean space is international. For instance Marsians are selling their stuff to Iran. The cargo will never enter US airspace and so the US/NORAD has legaly nothing to say about it.

However those roque nations don't really need plutonium or other materials. What they could and what would be cheaper is technology and consultents on how to build nukes, ICBM and etc.

Another thing Martians could do and what is ilegal or semi legal on earth is bio enginering, cloning and all other un ethical stuff.

JimM · 2004-06-20 02:05:52

All right then, how about off-earth banking? You know, where you can stash all your ill-gotten gains so nobody knows?
Nice. Another important illegal activity.

Off-earth banking would not be illegal. Its customers may be doing illegal things elsewhere in the Solar System, but of course the Bank of Mars would neither know this nor be interested--so long as the illegality does not happen on the territory of the Republic of Mars--in the long tradition of the Swiss banking industry.

BTW, I'd like to propose the Martian money unit should of course be called the 'Bar', so you could for example say, "The US Dollar is worth 1.75 Mars Bars".

Martian Republic · 2004-06-20 08:18:38

NORAD already has the technology to track the contraband of illegal drugs or nuclear waist. They may not currently have the technology to shoot it down right now, but that would change once we develop laser weapons. Those weapons would be a point and shoot kind of weapons and you would almost certainty hit what your shooting at.
It maybe able to do it someday but will it be allowed to do it? I mean space is international. For instance Marsians are selling their stuff to Iran. The cargo will never enter US airspace and so the US/NORAD has legaly nothing to say about it.

What make you think some one going to stop the shooting down of smugglers in international space. They will go after smugglers in international space the same way they go after smugglers in international water. Your argument is neither valid nor does it conform to the real world or would it apply to international space either. Some powerful nation like the United States want to put an end to illegal drugs coming into there country, they will just eliminate those smugglers. Besides they don't have say they were the ones that fired that Laser Weapon that kill those smuggler. We could even deny we fired weapon or maybe it was the Russian or the Chinese that fired the Laser Weapon. Oh they got hit by a Laser Weapon? Oh, Gee, that terrible. I don’t know anything about it.

Larry,

smurf975 · 2004-06-20 08:24:49

However it will not be smugglers they will fire on. It will be martian cargo vessels. And it can be seen as an act of war.

And sattelites can pick up who fired.

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-21 07:10:38

Starting down a 'Martian Mafia' road would be unwise, though some form of organized crime is inevitable.

To tell you the truth, I prefer organized crime to the more mundane variety. The Mafia is careful, they have business sense. They don't like innocent bystanders in the crossfire, they don't want a high profile.

But once we set up a Martian government we'll have all the organized crime we can handle. :;):

Smuggling of physical goods, whether drugs, nuclear materials and whatnot just isn't going to work. It's too expensive. Neither drugs nor plutonium are that hard to come by if you have some greenbacks to spread around.

A banking haven perhaps has potential, were one inclined toward doing business with criminals. If you were to take this route, you'd have to be totally discrete and never yield records, or all credibility would be lost and the operation would collapse.

So Osama bin Laden stashes 50 million dollars in your bank after the US government and its allies try to seize his assets, used to fund terrorist activities. What do you do?

The 'banned science' angle has some merit. You want to do stem cell research? Come on down. You want to bypass some steps before human testing a new drug? We got prisons. You want organ transplants without waiting around for three years? Did I mention we got prisons? Maybe grow a donor clone?

In a purely practical sense, there are ways to make Mars a lucrative criminal stronghold. Were someone so inclined Mars could be built on shady, if not outright criminal activities. It would mean skipping the best elements of human society and going right to the degeneration of it. Cut out the middle man, wilderness to cesspool.

Makes militarization look damn nice, doesn't it?

clark · 2004-06-21 07:33:14

Sure. Why not? It's all fantasy. Add another log to the fire.

Export drugs and nuclear grade plutinoum? From Mars?!

Perhaps we can create a super secret mega fortress where our evil genius leader plots and plunders the demise of Earth, only to be stopped short at the last moment by the erstwhile Secret Agent who has discovered the final pieces of the Evil plan. Of course, since our leader is an Evil Genius, he will have an escape plan that will allow him to flee in a waiting escape pod, to take him away to the even-more-super-secret mega fortress. I think he has a time machine there.

smurf975 · 2004-06-21 07:38:22

I thought Evil Genius had a dimensional port into which he can escape into one a timeless dimension and rebuild his army there.

But perhaps I'm getting out of touch.

DERF · 2004-06-21 12:45:52

I thought Evil Genius had a dimensional port into which he can escape into one a timeless dimension and rebuild his army there.
But perhaps I'm getting out of touch.

We better get to Mars quickly before these foolish notions of grandeur get out of control.

Oh my, if congress read this.

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-21 12:56:38

Oh my, if congress read this.

This is nothing compared to the nonsense they come up with on a daily basis.

Delusions of grandeur indeed.

clark · 2004-06-21 13:01:22

Behold, the Prophet speaks!

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-21 13:10:35

Behold, the Prophet speaks!

F**kin' a.

clark · 2004-06-21 13:31:44

If I don't believe in god, does that mean you don't exsist?

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-21 13:40:43

If I don't believe in god, does that mean you don't exsist?

I just means I might be lying.

Palomar · 2004-06-21 14:02:54

Of course, there will be incentives to make people "gentle and agriculture oriented".
Will it be the stick or the carrot?

*Carrot, of course.

It logically follows, given my point of view.

--Cindy

P.S.: I'm surprised neither of our moderators have made a disclaimer comment to the effect that the Mars Society neither endorses nor condones illegal activities (anywhere, including Mars of course).

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2004-06-19 07:17:04

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#2 2004-06-19 08:22:05

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#3 2004-06-19 08:54:04

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#4 2004-06-19 09:22:30

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#5 2004-06-19 09:44:13

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#6 2004-06-19 09:59:35

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#7 2004-06-19 10:03:23

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#8 2004-06-19 11:18:02

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#9 2004-06-19 12:15:02

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#10 2004-06-19 15:46:56

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#11 2004-06-19 17:02:29

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#12 2004-06-20 01:55:16

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#13 2004-06-20 02:05:52

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#14 2004-06-20 08:18:38

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#15 2004-06-20 08:24:49

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#16 2004-06-21 07:10:38

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#17 2004-06-21 07:33:14

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#18 2004-06-21 07:38:22

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#19 2004-06-21 12:45:52

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#20 2004-06-21 12:56:38

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#21 2004-06-21 13:01:22

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#22 2004-06-21 13:10:35

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#23 2004-06-21 13:31:44

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#24 2004-06-21 13:40:43

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

#25 2004-06-21 14:02:54

Re: Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia???

Board footer