Unpopularity of space exploration

atitarev · 2004-06-08 20:43:53

I think if you really to make more people interested in space you must build orbiting hotels in space. Where you can go for $10.000 a week.

I don't think its funny. But I do understand that you may think so.
Its just that Mars and Moon and humans on them are age old stories. Getting people on Mars is such an old story and nothing has happened since the 50 years that people said its possible.
Its like when I see a brochure or on TV something about a holiday on a exoctic island with scuba diving and stuff. But now imagine there are no commercial airlines and only sailing ships. Do you really think people would be that interested in going to some far region? Or would think of it as something realistic?
You can argue to people that's technically possible but most humans are pretty down to earth and will then say: "Well then do it." Or "I will believe it when I see it"

I only laughed about the joke, it doesn't mean that I like the way things are going with the space exploration. I agree with what you said. If I were a billionaire, I would heavily invest in space exploration but I am not.

Shaun Barrett · 2004-06-09 03:13:30

Anatoli, you are so right about the 5-second space-news slot at the end of the news.
I estimate there are about 8-10 minutes of national and international news (Forget the international news if an Aussie football player has stubbed his toe and will miss an important match on the weekend! Forget the national news too if an Aussie cricketer has been caught cheating on his wife! ), followed by commercials, followed by 8-10 minutes of sport (even if the first 8-10 minutes have been all football and cricket anyway! ), followed by commercials, followed by the weather.
Then comes the light-hearted stuff in the dying seconds. An old-age pensioner accidentally hit the accelerator instead of the brake in his driveway and drove into the neighbour's ornamental fish pond ... fortunately nobody got hurt (chuckle, chuckle, titter, titter)! And President Bush said America should return to the Moon by 2020, and go on to Mars. ["Well, there's no green cheese on the Moon ... time to go check for little green men on Mars." - (condescending smiles and more tittering as the signature music strikes up and we fade to yet more commercials! )]

As I think I've said before, it's as though there's no universe above their heads; the world stops at the cruising altitude of a 747 - or at the local football ground for some of them!
To describe these people as parochial simpletons is an insult to parochial simpletons in my view!!!
:angry:

[Sorry. I guess I'm just in a frustrated mood tonight. I'll probably feel better after dinner! ]

atitarev · 2004-06-09 04:03:47

Anatoli, you are so right about the 5-second space-news slot at the end of the news.
I estimate there are about 8-10 minutes of national and international news (Forget the international news if an Aussie football player has stubbed his toe and will miss an important match on the weekend! Forget the national news too if an Aussie cricketer has been caught cheating on his wife! ), followed by commercials, followed by 8-10 minutes of sport (even if the first 8-10 minutes have been all football and cricket anyway! ), followed by commercials, followed by the weather.
Then comes the light-hearted stuff in the dying seconds. An old-age pensioner accidentally hit the accelerator instead of the brake in his driveway and drove into the neighbour's ornamental fish pond ... fortunately nobody got hurt (chuckle, chuckle, titter, titter)! And President Bush said America should return to the Moon by 2020, and go on to Mars. ["Well, there's no green cheese on the Moon ... time to go check for little green men on Mars." - (condescending smiles and more tittering as the signature music strikes up and we fade to yet more commercials! )]
As I think I've said before, it's as though there's no universe above their heads; the world stops at the cruising altitude of a 747 - or at the local football ground for some of them!
To describe these people as parochial simpletons is an insult to parochial simpletons in my view!!!
:angry:
[Sorry. I guess I'm just in a frustrated mood tonight. I'll probably feel better after dinner! ]

You described it very well, Shaun Were you referring to Channel 9's 'Today' morning program? I only watch it because there's nothing else on.

bolbuyk · 2004-06-09 06:00:51

The attitude in the'fifties and sixties was that of making the world better, make everybody richer by improving technology. But these days, these things are considered as trivialities. Everybody thinks its normal that every five year the speed of a PC increases with 500%. It's normal bridges of kilometers are built, solar arrays are developed, satelites are launched, DNA-research, and so on. But these things are still miracles.

I can be rather frustrad when I see here in Holland politicians and economicians are considered to be very important people, while the real stuff is made by technicians who are merely considered as nerds that contribute enthousiastically to polluting the environment.

I'm not very hopefull about spacemindedness in the short term, but I think there will be a time it revives. But before that, I think people have to feel uncomfortable before they realize what the potentials of technics are.

Palomar · 2004-06-09 06:04:32

Then comes the light-hearted stuff in the dying seconds. An old-age pensioner accidentally hit the accelerator instead of the brake in his driveway and drove into the neighbour's ornamental fish pond ... fortunately nobody got hurt (chuckle, chuckle, titter, titter)! And President Bush said America should return to the Moon by 2020, and go on to Mars. ["Well, there's no green cheese on the Moon ... time to go check for little green men on Mars." - (condescending smiles and more tittering as the signature music strikes up and we fade to yet more commercials! )]
As I think I've said before, it's as though there's no universe above their heads; the world stops at the cruising altitude of a 747 - or at the local football ground for some of them!
To describe these people as parochial simpletons is an insult to parochial simpletons in my view!!!
:angry:
[Sorry. I guess I'm just in a frustrated mood tonight. I'll probably feel better after dinner! ]

*Yep...sounds familiar.

In one of his novels, Robert Heinlein had one of his characters say (quoting as closely as possible): "I wonder how retarded civilization's advancement is made by the laughing jackasses, the small-minded belittlers." Can't recall the name of that novel right now; will Google for it and edit later.

::edit:: _Have Spacesuit, Will Travel_ was that novel.

--Cindy

deagleninja · 2004-06-09 07:46:24

I still fail to see where the problem is with the public. Everyone loves space. It isn't the public or even the media that is at fault.

Think about this: if I told you wonderful stories of a crazy place where you can be incredibly strong and could fly, what would your reaction be?

You would want to go right? To experience this magical place for yourself? Well, there's the problem. People love space and would love to go but they can't. If people can't do something they want to do, then they play it down in their minds. 'Well it probably sucks anyway'. Remember the fable of the fox and the grapes? The fox couldn't reach the grapes so he tells himself that 'they are probably bitter anyway'.

When the cost of traveling to and from space drops enough that moderately wealthy people can do it, you will see a huge shift in public attitude.

The media is only mocking what they can't understand. Space is still the domain of nerds and therefore a safe target for puns.

John Creighton · 2004-06-09 09:17:07

The Joke on this hour has 22 minutes: Bush: I am going to bring democracy to mars: Paul Martin: Maybe someday you will try bringing democracy to America. I remember another Joke that was formed as a commercial about the mars rover. In the commercial they we were trying to sell new ways to look at rocks and drill holes in rocks.

John Creighton · 2004-06-09 09:26:01

Alexander I find it Ironic that you point the finger at liberalism. I suppose you would rather give big tax cuts to the rich. Did you ever here about redistributing the wealth?

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-09 10:12:58

I suppose you would rather give big tax cuts to the rich. Did you ever here about redistributing the wealth?

Ever heard of communism?

Palomar · 2004-06-09 10:24:36

*Hi Deagleninja: I think some folks here are trying to make the point that a majority of the public confuses science fiction with science fact. Yes, many people are for space exploration...ala Star Trek and Star Wars (unrealistic -- at least for now). But when it comes down to the grind, nitty-gritty, hardships/obstacles of "getting there" (not to mention the $), the crowd thins.

Many people want to be entertained. Many people have short attention spans, are fickle, pander to "trends and fads," etc.

So how do we get more people genuinely interested (for the long-haul, the "dirty work," the sacrifices of time, energy, money, etc.)?

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-09 10:30:17

So how do we get more people genuinely interested (for the long-haul, the "dirty work," the sacrifices of time, energy, money, etc.)?

By playing up the adventurous aspects of space travel while at the same time linking it with something that has even broader long-term appeal. Make people believe that it is part of a better, nobler and more prosperous future they themselves will benefit from. Even if it isn't true.

John Creighton · 2004-06-09 10:38:15

I suppose you would rather give big tax cuts to the rich. Did you ever here about redistributing the wealth?
Ever heard of communism?

Every here of feudalism :;):

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-09 10:47:26

Every here of feudalism

Yeah, that's why I need tax cuts. Sick of paying my third like a good serf.

John Creighton · 2004-06-09 10:54:50

Are the lords paying you a fair wadge? Do they Charge you a reasonable rent? Do you owe them any money and if so what interest do you pay?

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-09 11:01:58

Are the lords paying you a fair wadge?

Fair, yes. Certainly I'd like more, but that's the real trick, who decides what's fair.

But it would be more with an across-the-board tax cut.

Besides, at least with our present, ah, "feudalism" as you say, we all have a shot at lordliness. Something to work for, motivation. If wealth is redistributed, what's the point of working?

Bill White · 2004-06-09 11:05:39

Are the lords paying you a fair wadge?
Fair, yes. Certainly I'd like more, but that's the real trick, who decides what's fair.
But it would be more with an across-the-board tax cut.
Besides, at least with our present, ah, "feudalism" as you say, we all have a shot at lordliness. Something to work for, motivation. If wealth is redistributed, what's the point of working?

I am not sure I agree.

The infrastructure that comes from good government makes "making money" easier, not harder.

Secure private property rights require government.

= = =

We are a consumer society. The more money spent at the bottom trickles up.

John Creighton · 2004-06-09 11:08:32

Besides, at least with our present, ah, "feudalism" as you say, we all have a shot at lordliness. Something to work for, motivation. If wealth is redistributed, what's the point of working?

There always has to be balance or the peasants will revolt. Maybe you think there is enough balance or maybe you think the government pays for to many services. Politics and economics’ aren’t always straight forward. However, if peoples buying power is declining we must ask why?

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-09 11:19:53

The infrastructure that comes from good government makes "making money" easier, not harder.

Infrastructure, yes, but at present we are hindered heavily by taxes and regulations. "bad government" if you will.

Seems like I should be rubbing a bureaucrat's nose in something, red tape maybe.

We are a consumer society. The more money spent at the bottom trickles up.

But what's fair pay for the work we're doing. While we discuss this online, for several hours...

Politics and economics’ aren’t always straight forward. However, if peoples buying power is declining we must ask why?

Absolutely, but redistributing wealth isn't the answer to the problem.

Uh, what was this topic about again?

Oh, right. That's one way of increasing public interest and support for space exploration, less talk of budgets, committees, reports, etc and overall lower taxes. When people see that big chunk of Federal withholding, ask "what am I getting for this" and hear about a committe evaluating a Mars mission it doesn't exactly inspire enthusiastic support.

Alexander Sheppard · 2004-06-09 11:47:26

Neoliberalism is a term generally not used in the US.

I might note, reading the above message, that NASA is in significant part a means of redistributing wealth--to large corporations, which benefit from the contracts they get, as you can read for instance in the Wall Street Journal.

The comments about lower taxes are interesting, considering that, as I read in the Financial Times about a recent Gallup Poll, "Cutting taxes was something that only 1 per cent of respondents viewed as a priority".

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-09 11:53:02

I might note, reading the above message, that NASA is in significant part a means of redistributing wealth--to large corporations, which benefit from the contracts they get, as you can read for instance in the Wall Street Journal.

In that sense all commerce is the redistribution of wealth. The difference is that when currency is exchanged for goods and services it's trade, when wealth is redistributed as an end unto itself it's theft.

Alexander Sheppard · 2004-06-09 11:57:20

From http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServe … 727162]the article: "The lack of excitement generated by the issue puts Republicans - and some Democrats, including John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate, who has promised not to touch the middle-class portion of the Bush tax cut - in the odd position of championing a policy about which most Americans are indifferent."

"Even as Mr Bush campaigned for the White House in 1999, polls showed that Americans were far more concerned about restoring moral values, improving education and fighting crime than about reducing their tax burdens."

"It is a trend that has been evident for some time, although one would scarcely know it by the vigour with which President George W. Bush has pursued tax cuts every year since becoming president"

"For Republicans, tax cuts have long been an issue of vast appeal to the party's core constituency. In that sense, tax cuts' popularity or lack of it is eclipsed by the perceived need to court the party's conservative wing" (my emphasis)

John Creighton · 2004-06-09 11:58:53

In that sense all commerce is the redistribution of wealth. The difference is that when currency is exchanged for goods and services it's trade, when wealth is redistributed as an end unto itself it's theft.

It is only theft if you own it. The state has liberty to define ownership as at wishes. No one has an inherent right to wealth. People merrily create systems so that a society can function.

John Creighton · 2004-06-09 12:02:40

When people use their power to gain wealth or services in an inequitable manner it is called things like: price gouging, exploitation and profiteering. Just because services were exchanged, doesn't mean everthing is well.

John Creighton · 2004-06-09 12:10:44

I might note, reading the above message, that NASA is in significant part a means of redistributing wealth--to large corporations, which benefit from the contracts they get, as you can read for instance in the Wall Street Journal.

I would think that aero space contracts would provide a lot of good Jobs for engineers, scientiest, machinist, welders, and laborers.

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-09 12:12:07

It is only theft if you own it. The state has liberty to define ownership as at wishes.

Spoken like a true communist.

I'm not saying you are a commie, BTW. No offense intended.

When people use their power to gain wealth or services in an inequitable manner it is called things like: price gouging, exploitation and profiteering. Just because services were exchanged, doesn't mean everthing is well.

I agree, my point was that in redistribution schemes services are never exchanged for what is taken. An individual's property is taken without compensation for use by others, it's theft.

I would think that aero space contracts would provide a lot of good Jobs for engineers, scientiest, machinist, welders, and laborers.

Indeed, any major aerospace project, whether for NASA or the military employs huge numbers of people. If we want to redistribute wealth, this is the way to do it. Employ people doing something useful. Just don't raise taxes to do it.

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#26 2004-06-08 20:43:53

Re: Unpopularity of space exploration

#27 2004-06-09 03:13:30

Re: Unpopularity of space exploration

#28 2004-06-09 04:03:47

Re: Unpopularity of space exploration

#29 2004-06-09 06:00:51

Re: Unpopularity of space exploration

#30 2004-06-09 06:04:32

Re: Unpopularity of space exploration

#31 2004-06-09 07:46:24

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#32 2004-06-09 09:17:07

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#33 2004-06-09 09:26:01

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#34 2004-06-09 10:12:58

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#35 2004-06-09 10:24:36

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#36 2004-06-09 10:30:17

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#37 2004-06-09 10:38:15

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#38 2004-06-09 10:47:26

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#39 2004-06-09 10:54:50

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#40 2004-06-09 11:01:58

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#41 2004-06-09 11:05:39

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#42 2004-06-09 11:08:32

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#43 2004-06-09 11:19:53

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#44 2004-06-09 11:47:26

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#45 2004-06-09 11:53:02

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#46 2004-06-09 11:57:20

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#47 2004-06-09 11:58:53

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#48 2004-06-09 12:02:40

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#49 2004-06-09 12:10:44

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#50 2004-06-09 12:12:07

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