Should we colonize Europa and Ganamedie! - Nice place to live

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2004-03-03 23:36:43

its a great idea, much better than the moon.

but how stable are these jupiter moons, plus there are high radiation levels from jupiter

Brian Hanley · 2004-03-04 10:41:26

Well, in the broadest sense, perhaps it could be said that Lamarck could cover intentional fiddling with our own genes.

I'd sure not like being saddled with having been born under 30 kilometers of ice, with gills, sitting in the dark, totally dependent on another race that can fly around to other planets to give me technology when they feel like it. No fire underwater. No metallurgy, not much of anything possible except maybe some kind of biotech. But all our biotech depends on metals, glass, all sorts of things.

What would I trade if I was born there?

I think there's a lot to be said for staying in space, as in Asimov's "Spomes" (space homes in hollowed out asteroids). Or on lower gravity planets that make space access a lot easier, such as Mars...

atitarev · 2004-05-20 20:48:58

its a great idea, much better than the moon.
but how stable are these jupiter moons, plus there are high radiation levels from jupiter

Quoting Aetius (< Europa discussion >)
Io...3600 rem per day
Europa...540 rem per day
Ganymede...8 rem per day
Callisto...0.01 rem per day

The radiation levels on these 2 (Callisto and Ganymede) are acceptable - especially Callisto, unlike Europa and Io. Need to be more careful on Ganymede - wear dark glasses.

atitarev · 2004-05-23 06:29:29

Cindy suggested to post the link I gave in another thread before.

Posting the link where it's appropriate.

Enjoy!http://www.geocities.com/ares2101/Jovian_Terraforming.html]The Jovian Terraforming

mbastion · 2004-05-30 23:56:12

Hi,

Although the idea sounds great and the night sky would be awesome, none of the Jovian, Saturian, Uranian or Neptunian moons can be terraformed. Check out my list at:

http://www.geocities.com/alt_cosmos/esc … scape.html

from my website:
http://www.geocities.com/alt_cosmos/ind … index.html

Michael

Mark · 2004-06-08 07:32:04

I'm curious, what is the pressure on the moon Callisto? I'm not looking at humans on Europa, since that would be asking too much, at least in the far forseeable future because of the amount of radiation it gets.

So far it seems that if we were try to get humans on Callisto, problems would be

- temperature
- slight radiation problems?
- pressure?
- other?

atitarev · 2004-06-08 18:28:20

I'm curious, what is the pressure on the moon Callisto? I'm not looking at humans on Europa, since that would be asking too much, at least in the far forseeable future because of the amount of radiation it gets.
So far it seems that if we were try to get humans on Callisto, problems would be
- temperature
- slight radiation problems?
- pressure?
- other?

This topic should be renamed/moved to 'Terraforming Callisto and Ganymede', since these two are the best Jovian candidates for terraforming, not Europa but Europa is more likely to have existing/primitive life.

Ganymede and Callisto have very tenuous atmosphere. In fact the atmosphere should be brought there, or even better produced by melting the ice. Both of the moons have abundance of them.

I quoted radiation figures earlier in the thread. They are not an issue, especially on Callisto.

The low temperatures are an issue but overcomable. Some others guys described the ways to warm up these moons in this forum using lenses. In my opinion, the 2 moons need not be warmed too much, they are better off to be warmer but under 0 C, so they don't lose too much of the atmosphere and, especially water because of the low gravity of Callisto and Ganymede. Liquid water will stay under a crust of ice. The moons could be populated with hardy plants/animals, some genetical engineering may be required.

I quote Sax from Mars trilogy: "I don't care if it's cold, if I can breathe the air". He is right.

http://www.geocities.com/ares2101/Jovia … g.html]The Jovian Terraforming

Earthfirst · 2004-06-09 09:04:06

With europa, you could make a thicker atmosphere, it has a thin one now. That would block out some of the radiation, the best place to live on europa is under the ice in the seas. A couple of miles of ice crust should block a lot of rataition right?
With Ganymede it all ready has a mag feild, which could be strenghen, an thick atmosphere would take care of the rest.
As far as terraforming you can do a lot. With the space lens you used to melt the ice for air, you could melt a large area so that only rock and dirt remain to make soil for plants, that would protech the ice below from melting too, like premafrost in alsaka.
Or warm the place up so that most of it melts to make a big ocean, with just ice at the poles, sea life would love it.
Big mirrors could increas the insolation to get that result.
Calisto has similar potental, it just depend on what you want and how much effort you put into it "cost".

karov · 2004-06-14 16:34:34

The lethal enormous mag-field of Jupiter could be confined and utilized entirelly if arround the gas giant a supramundane habitat (later shell) is biult. Thus even the closer Io and Europa could be colonised/terraformed.
---------------------------
Or without that for each moon local radiational mag-shielding could be constructed... capturing the enormous energy source "as the Jupiter turns" and redirecting it from pointless particle super-accelerating towards terraformation purposes, either.
--------------------------
Jupiter is big enough from the little one "temporary" moons or outer biulding materials sources to be manifactured gas-giant-spaghetti tube-world -- fed with energy by the jovian dinamo, too. The last scheme is applicable for "free floating planets", too -- sub-brown dwarfs objects ejected during the stellar formation in the globular clasters into the interstellar void, far from the suns. The internal planetary heat loss-time is measured in hundreds of billions of years even for Earth. For planets with such bigger surface-to-volume ratio as the gas giants the time scale is even longer. If such free planet has strong mag-field and some debris circling arround it -- tube world spaghetti (or macaroni) habitat, could provide many times the earth`s total area in earth-like environment analog, without star light or planetological scale of termonuclear energy production necessary.

karov · 2004-06-14 16:51:49

I'm curious, what is the pressure on the moon Callisto? I'm not looking at humans on Europa, since that would be asking too much, at least in the far forseeable future because of the amount of radiation it gets.
So far it seems that if we were try to get humans on Callisto, problems would be
- temperature
- slight radiation problems?
- pressure?
- other?
This topic should be renamed/moved to 'Terraforming Callisto and Ganymede', since these two are the best Jovian candidates for terraforming, not Europa but Europa is more likely to have existing/primitive life.
Ganymede and Callisto have very tenuous atmosphere. In fact the atmosphere should be brought there, or even better produced by melting the ice. Both of the moons have abundance of them.
I quoted radiation figures earlier in the thread. They are not an issue, especially on Callisto.
The low temperatures are an issue but overcomable. Some others guys described the ways to warm up these moons in this forum using lenses. In my opinion, the 2 moons need not be warmed too much, they are better off to be warmer but under 0 C, so they don't lose too much of the atmosphere and, especially water because of the low gravity of Callisto and Ganymede. Liquid water will stay under a crust of ice. The moons could be populated with hardy plants/animals, some genetical engineering may be required.
I quote Sax from Mars trilogy: "I don't care if it's cold, if I can breathe the air". He is right.

http://www.geocities.com/ares2101/Jovia … g.html]The Jovian Terraforming

I agree -- the lowest possible level of the "terraformed" planet atmosphere`s temperature is the point of it`s phase change in liquid form. The last even could be allowed for smaller or significant part of the planet`s surface -- tolarable varying air presure in diurnal or seasonal fashion. Even on planets where the air is so cold that humans can`t breathe it without termo-masks, there could be implanted and thriving modified/adapted genetically engeneered biota: warm-blooded plants ( see Freeman Dyson), icy Gaia-system shifting the cold desert in ecology, animals biulding igloos by instinct like the beavers making dams by woods, etc., etc.
There is enormous combinatorical space of solutions of human-supporting ecologies consisting of non-existent on earth species. The important thing is the biota complex to provide the right environmental parameters, not the actual members of the chain... even + some purelly technological shortcuts...

Hope55 · 2004-06-20 13:10:06

There are some who believe that terraforming Europa is out of the question because of the probability that life already exist there. The fact that the Galileo probe was intentionally crashed into Jupiter's crushing atmosphere to protect the findings regarding its ocean would certianly add to that intrigue.

Should an attempt a terraforming be made, the prospects of harvesting land from nearby asteriods could create the needed land mass.

I'm not a scientist, just fascinated by the prospects for the coming generations of human in the regards to space colonization.
Here is a neat link.

http://www.hudsonfla.com/spaceview.htm]Colonization

atitarev · 2004-06-20 19:56:34

There are some who believe that terraforming Europa is out of the question because of the probability that life already exist there. The fact that the Galileo probe was intentionally crashed into Jupiter's crushing atmosphere to protect the findings regarding its ocean would certianly add to that intrigue.

Should an attempt a terraforming be made, the prospects of harvesting land from nearby asteriods could create the needed land mass.
I'm not a scientist, just fascinated by the prospects for the coming generations of human in the regards to space colonization.
Here is a neat link.
http://www.hudsonfla.com/spaceview.htm]Colonization

Beautiful pictures, Hope55! Looks like fantasy but very exciting. Welcome on board

REB · 2004-06-22 07:17:28

Very Cool pictures, but they left out Venus and Mercury. I hope Venus is terraformed. And I do think, at some point, Mercury’s resources will become valuable.

Was that Moon Base Alpha I saw!

karov · 2004-06-26 13:54:11

Should an attempt a terraforming be made, the prospects of harvesting land from nearby asteriods could create the needed land mass.

I think the rocky mass in the moons themselves would be enough to be created permafrost-like landmass onto the ice crust. This is due to the composition of the satelites, also the billion years of bombardment with planetoids which non water remnants are stuck in the solid part of the moons crust and mantle.

But, the frozen water itself is good, veeery good floor material. Just cover it with a ' blanket' in order not to melt under your feet. For the blanket use the carbon and silica rocks extracted from the crust to make fibrous cloth...

karov · 2004-06-26 13:56:23

'Blanketing' the inner ice and making on it land with soil, liquid water, etc. BTW effectivelly isolates the native (if exists) from the imported life. Very eco-friendly. The local life shoulf be harnessed and harvested and aquacultured too...

karov · 2004-06-26 14:15:03

If our termal intervention turns the icy moons in world oceans without shores, than the solution is to biuld artificial solid surface as in any other case, where it is not present: gas giants, venus-like planets, partial oceans, stars, naked vacuum... Not just enormous rafts or floating islands could be built on world-ocean, but entire system of floating continents -- from water plants, concrete, plastic, metals, carbon nano-structures materials...

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#26 2004-03-03 23:36:43

Re: Should we colonize Europa and Ganamedie! - Nice place to live

#27 2004-03-04 10:41:26

Re: Should we colonize Europa and Ganamedie! - Nice place to live

#28 2004-05-20 20:48:58

Re: Should we colonize Europa and Ganamedie! - Nice place to live

#29 2004-05-23 06:29:29

Re: Should we colonize Europa and Ganamedie! - Nice place to live

#30 2004-05-30 23:56:12

Re: Should we colonize Europa and Ganamedie! - Nice place to live

#31 2004-06-08 07:32:04

Re: Should we colonize Europa and Ganamedie! - Nice place to live

#32 2004-06-08 18:28:20

Re: Should we colonize Europa and Ganamedie! - Nice place to live

#33 2004-06-09 09:04:06

Re: Should we colonize Europa and Ganamedie! - Nice place to live

#34 2004-06-14 16:34:34

Re: Should we colonize Europa and Ganamedie! - Nice place to live

#35 2004-06-14 16:51:49

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#36 2004-06-20 13:10:06

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#37 2004-06-20 19:56:34

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#38 2004-06-22 07:17:28

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