Should God be Exported to Mars?

smurf975 · 2004-06-01 15:02:21

In a novel titled The Songs of Distant Earth, author Arthur C. Clarke wrote about a human society on a planet named Thalassa. A terrestrial visitor to Thalassa said, "I wish I could meet some of my long-dead colleagues and let them know how many of our endless arguments have been finally resolved. It is possible to build a rational and humane culture completely free from the threat of supernatural restraints."
Will the future validate Clarke's fiction? Can Martian society be religion-free?

Isn't Arthur C. Clarke a known pedophile? So should we take moral lessons from him?

FrankPoole · 2004-06-01 18:17:04

And in the future have religions as political parties. Like now I’m paying taxes for some church in what I don’t even believe in.

What country do you live in? I've never heard of having to pay taxes for a church. Unless you live in a Muslim country, where you pay taxes to what might be a theocratic government.

smurf975 · 2004-06-01 20:05:16

And in the future have religions as political parties. Like now I’m paying taxes for some church in what I don’t even believe in.
What country do you live in? I've never heard of having to pay taxes for a church. Unless you live in a Muslim country, where you pay taxes to what might be a theocratic government.

I live in the Netherlands.

smurf975 · 2004-06-01 22:24:28

And in the future have religions as political parties. Like now I’m paying taxes for some church in what I don’t even believe in.
What country do you live in? I've never heard of having to pay taxes for a church. Unless you live in a Muslim country, where you pay taxes to what might be a theocratic government.

However in Germany you have the same religion / church taxes. And probably a lot of other European nations.

Rxke · 2004-06-02 01:10:46

Yup, Belgium, too. But it's a bit complicated...

a vast mayority is baptized Roman Catholic here, but most people couldn' care less about their religion, or are averse to it. (You probably heard abot Europe's "tired Christianity vs. USA's )
But aa certain % of taxes goes to diff. churches/beliefs, most % to Rom Cath because virtually everyone is RC, at least on paper.
Some people that really dislike the Church go and de-baptize themselves, just for that reason. You still pay tax, but it doesn't go to RC. (Dunno to who instead...)

P.S. A.C. a pedophile? Yer kiddin'! He wouldn't be allowed in the UK, if he was a 'known' pedophile.

smurf975 · 2004-06-02 04:33:23

P.S. A.C. a pedophile? Yer kiddin'! He wouldn't be allowed in the UK, if he was a 'known' pedophile.

I'm not sure but I read here and there stories about him on sri lanka

But after googling for it seems its only some tabloid rumours and there is no real evidence.

Here is a link on the background story of the allegations:

http://gaytoday.badpuppy.com/garchive/w … 1498wo.htm

Rxke · 2004-06-02 11:22:22

Dirty rats.

I mean, seriously, anything to sell copy, no? Some people make me sick.

Thanks for the link, didn't find anything myself after a cursory Google, so i thought it wouldn't be too important.

Dook · 2004-06-02 17:21:31

I believe the scientists, not the religions. Every religion was created by a human and thus has human failings. Some of religions core teachings have become distorted by ignorant humans who use it to meet their agenda. The religious books were intended to be an owner's manual for the human body. The idea of religion is basically a good one, it can be a guide for those who need it. And after I have said all this I will tell you now that I believe, without a doubt in my mind whatsoever, that their is a Creator of the universe. But rather than follow a priest, monk, or other, I follow the scientists who are truly finding the clue's left behind by the Creator.

For some people this is not enough. For me it wasn't either for a very long time until things began to fit, whether I liked the way they fit or not did not matter.

Bad things happen to good people and vice versa because we all have free will. You can take a gun and shoot a child and the Creator will not interfere. But do you need to do that to know it is wrong? Some people do. Nobody lives the perfect life, without sin. The key is learning from it and deciding that you will no longer harm others. Would you rather be a robot? Without choice? And have the Creator control your actions so that you did no harm? What would your soul learn from this? Nothing, and you would resist just as children resist their parents teachings. They must learn for themselves because they are human, like you.

smurf975 · 2004-06-02 18:13:04

I think you are making some mistakes here. Science is not a religion so there is no following only facts and proove.

If you follow a scientist he is your priest although its not an offical religion but it to you it is.

You can't believe in scientists, believing is something personal, scienctists are about non argumental facts which have nothing to do with believing he is wrong or right. Like look here we have some really big bones that don't look like any mammals we know. Or the Earth is round proven by this fact/calculation or the sun is the center because of this fact and that fact. Were comes believing in this?

I read on some atheist site the comment / statement that religion was created to control people and it looks like that to me. However some people are now looking to science as some kind of religion. Like sciencetology is doing.

Dook · 2004-06-02 20:53:21

Science is the only TRUE religion. Why can't God have man evolve from a ancestor of the ape if He wants to do it that way? Why wouldn't God begin everything with a bang? It is the same, if you look upon it with an open mind. Science and religion. They are the same.

Have you ever read the beginning of Genesis? Did you notice that it agrees with the scientific theory of the creation of the universe, earth and moon, and man? What is the first thing you would see after the big bang? Light. Man comes after the crawling beasts and plants come before them both. It's all there. It's always been there, right before the priests eyes but they could not look with an open mind.

smurf975 · 2004-06-02 21:11:39

Science is the only TRUE religion. Why can't God have man evolve from a ancestor of the ape if He wants to do it that way? Why wouldn't God begin everything with a bang? It is the same, if you look upon it with an open mind. Science and religion. They are the same.

No what you are saying is that science facts can be adopted into religion. Like the english languange can use french words. The old idea that the Earth was flat was based on old science facts. Its just that religions adept slow.

And also you have many kinds of religions and not all deny evolution. There are also different kinds of atheisme. Some believe in no super being at all. Others believe that a super being was the force behind the bigbang and evolution from stardust-fish-monkey-human.

Learn more about Atheisme http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/a … x.htm]here

ChristianDude · 2004-06-03 04:40:57

Science is the only TRUE religion. Why can't God have man evolve from a ancestor of the ape if He wants to do it that way? Why wouldn't God begin everything with a bang? It is the same, if you look upon it with an open mind. Science and religion. They are the same.
Have you ever read the beginning of Genesis? Did you notice that it agrees with the scientific theory of the creation of the universe, earth and moon, and man? What is the first thing you would see after the big bang? Light. Man comes after the crawling beasts and plants come before them both. It's all there. It's always been there, right before the priests eyes but they could not look with an open mind.

Dook you are so wrong. The Bible (Genesis) says that the earth was created in 7 DAYS. Not in a few million years. And it says God had CREATED all vegetarian, animal and human live, not that He made it evolve. And besides, evolution is based upon coincidence and natrual selection. So how can you combine that with your theory that God had make those thing happen.
It has never been there and it never will.

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-03 07:41:55

Dook you are so wrong. The Bible (Genesis) says that the earth was created in 7 DAYS. Not in a few million years. And it says God had CREATED all vegetarian, animal and human live, not that He made it evolve. And besides, evolution is based upon coincidence and natrual selection. So how can you combine that with your theory that God had make those thing happen.

It all depends on how literally one interprets the Bible. A document that has partially been passed down orally before being written down, then subjected to a string of translations. If metaphor was intended, it could easily have been corrupted in the process. We can't know with any certainty what precisely it refers to in many cases. It could have started out as a fishing manual for all we know.

Rejecting concrete scientific evidence because it seems to conflict with the bastardized, mistranslated and mutated text of a book that may or may not have started as the word of God is senseless. Accepting the realities of the universe need not diminish your faith and could even strengthen it, seeing a glimpse of the workings of God's plan. Seems alot more inspiring than a magical man in the sky that created everything in a week and will send you to eternal damnation if you don't just accept it.

Dook · 2004-06-03 07:55:25

How do you know that a day has passed? You watch the sun but God did not make the sun until the 4th day so the first few days do not have to be days of 24 hours but could be days of a billion years each.

Genesis 21:
"So God created great sea creatures..."
Genesis 24:
"Let the earth bring forth every kind of animal..."
Genesis 25:
"God made all sorts of wild animals..."
Three slightly different ways of saying the same thing. You read the bible and take it literal but do you adhere to an "eye for an eye"? No. That quote is generally believed to mean bring a just and equal punishment to those who harm others.

Also, how would you now explain to a person 2,000 years ago that the universe formed from a singularity that burst forth helium and hydrogen 13 billion years ago and that matter condensed to form short lived stars that created the heavier elements and these stars then spread the heavier elements across the universe in massive supernova explosions to form billions of systems of planets orbiting stars?

I think whoever wrote the books of the bible put it as best he could with the limited vocabulary and understanding of the world he had. Don't blame God for man's errors. God set the basic rules for the universe, the physical laws, just as you adjust the settings on a computer game before you play.

~Eternal~ · 2004-06-03 12:29:08

Why not declare the Genesis Story non-literal and do more important things in your life?

Dook · 2004-06-03 14:40:11

Hmm, unnecessary hostility. Obviously you are a Roman Catholic.

dicktice · 2004-06-03 14:58:10

Phobos and Deimos are obviously candidates for twin gods of Mars, which is an abomination. If we tethered them together, would they become one god? And what would that make us godheads? Gosh!

clark · 2004-06-03 15:01:30

No dicktice, Panic and Fear are the eyes of Goddess Ares, forever looking, forever watching the dead hills and plains of Mars. Some say she searches for the hidden secrets buried somewhere on the planet, secrets hidden by Prometheus long ago, before he was sentenced for eternity.

dicktice · 2004-06-03 15:07:39

That was brilliant! I couldn't have thought of that, to save my soul. :up:

clark · 2004-06-03 15:24:00

Thanks.
Have you ever heard of Cesso?

Excerpt from a conversation with Cesso:

What is this? Do these eyes deceive? No, it is the form of man, come finally to these lands.

My name is Cesso; perhaps from my looks you recognize my likeness? No? Aye, pardon my presumption friend. It has been a long while since last I spoke with any man or beast, and my manners are rusted like these endless plains.

I am son of Hermes, and his consort Callisto; brother of Pan, and shepherd of Ares lands.

Come, sit with me, and I will tell you of those irascible sisters, Chance and Fate, whom both conspired to maroon me here upon Mars. Very good! Now, to arrive at the end, we must start with the beginning.

In days before man did walk, or learn to write, I was born second to my brother Pan, from our mutual mother, Callisto. It is at this moment of birth that our separate stories diverge. For you see, while our father Hermes lifted Pan to Olympus, to be cradled and embraced by all the gods who ruled; I was left to the capricious hands of the two midwives of my mother, Chance, and Fate. It was not by choice that I found myself within their sway, as my father knew not of my existence, and my dear mother, frightened of Pan and my very own appearance, fled nearly even before she had finished birthing us!

As Pan was preordained by the light of Zeus himself, my destiny was forged in the dark shadows well beyond my control. Eh, a mortal's fate, or so it would seem…

~Eternal~ · 2004-06-04 09:36:20

Hmm, unnecessary hostility. Obviously you are a Roman Catholic.

Nope Pentecostal/Budhhahist/Deist

I'm an obvious minority in my church

C M Edwards · 2004-06-28 15:33:32

Why import all the way from Earth?

Not to belittle anyone's claim to truth, but I suspect the Martians will ultimately take the same approach to religion that they will have to take with anything that they need enough of for an entire civilization:

They'll make their own.

No doubt the core beliefs will be taken from our own major world religions (Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, etc.), but I expect that's all the similarity that will ultimately remain. I can't wait to see what they do.

C M Edwards · 2004-06-28 15:38:38

I do hope that Martian Churches have that "small church" atmosphere. Jesus may be my shepherd, but that doesn't mean I want to feel like I'm being herded in and out of a stockyard. I'd wish the same for the marsians, too.

Socrates · 2004-08-29 14:15:28

No, Mars should not prohibit religious belief. Yes religion can be infantile and opressive (and usually is... on Earth anyway) but prohibiting any form of expression of belief is a one way ticket to a Nazi Mars. However I would like most people on mars to have at least pluralistic religious beliefs. There also needs to be a colony for secular humanists who are (at best) obscured in America like Massachusetts was a colony for Puritans

SpaceNut · 2004-09-01 12:00:21

Ya and someone will find an tablet scribed with the teachings for other to follow of course in martian. The new martian tablets would usher in a new religous belief much like the teachings found in the Bible, the writings of Buda and many others the have followed. Each religous belief will even if we were to try to surpress them eventually come out no matter what. Simply going to Mars creates its own religion because we are all human. What shape it will take would be not in decades but in mulleniums.

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#76 2004-06-01 15:02:21

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#77 2004-06-01 18:17:04

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#78 2004-06-01 20:05:16

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#79 2004-06-01 22:24:28

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#80 2004-06-02 01:10:46

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#81 2004-06-02 04:33:23

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#82 2004-06-02 11:22:22

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#83 2004-06-02 17:21:31

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#84 2004-06-02 18:13:04

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#85 2004-06-02 20:53:21

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#86 2004-06-02 21:11:39

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#87 2004-06-03 04:40:57

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#88 2004-06-03 07:41:55

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#89 2004-06-03 07:55:25

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#90 2004-06-03 12:29:08

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#91 2004-06-03 14:40:11

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#92 2004-06-03 14:58:10

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#93 2004-06-03 15:01:30

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#94 2004-06-03 15:07:39

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#95 2004-06-03 15:24:00

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#96 2004-06-04 09:36:20

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#97 2004-06-28 15:33:32

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#98 2004-06-28 15:38:38

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