Should God be Exported to Mars?

Scott G. Beach · 2004-02-26 17:15:01

replicant7

You asked, "a Martian civilization [will] not be tribal...will it?

I hope that Martian civilization will be as close to tribal as possible. I think of The City of Euthenia (my design for a prototype Martian settlement) as a neo-tribal society. It would be composed of 100 band-size neighborhoods of about 100 people -- a total population of about 10,000. The city council could be composed of one representative from each neighborhood. Since the council would be no larger than a band (i.e., about 100 people) the political system of the city should not need the support of a political ideology that rests on a supernatural authority. The mayor of the city should not feel the need to close his annual state of the city speech with the words, "God bless The City of Euthenia." And the city treasurer should not feel the need to issue coins that bear the words, "In God We Trust." And the members of the city council should not feel the need to have each council meeting opened with a prayer spoken by a religious leader.

I hope that the settlement design that I have proposed will not need a political ideology based supernatural beliefs. And I hope that anthropologists will look at my design and agree that it represents an example of a "neo-tribal society."

Alt2War · 2004-02-26 19:36:51

When I was younger, I had a theory as to why Religion seemed to make such an enemy of human nature: an individual or institution is known by it's enemies.

If christianity was based on, say, the distruction Rome, or say the casting of all gold into the sea, one day rome would fall or one day all gold would be in davy jone's locker. Poof christianity would end.

Instead christianity attacks the 2 most basic natures ingraved in our brains since the we diveloped brains, the fear of death and the desire to hump like bunnies. Those two things will never be defeated as long as we are human. So you end up with an epic, everlasting struggle.

My most latest theory goes as follows.

I see religion as a bit like DNA. The bible, in the case of christianity, is a bit like a chromazone. It changes slightly over time. Some bits and pieces are used more often as the environment changes. Some bits and pieces are totally ignored as irrelevant or even destructive.

On the whole, though, this meta-being that is christianity is concerned with primarily (if you wished to athropamophize a cultural institution or religion) with it's own survival over time, as is the the DNA strand.

Thats why policies like banning contraception, encouraging large familys, and to some extent the banning of abortion, are so prevelant. They exist because otherwise the 'being' would flounder and eventually die. It needs to constantly grow in number, or otherwise recede.

Thats why episcepalions are adapting to the times and allowing gay clergy, and ignoring scripture. It might be the mutation thjat lets it break into a new habitat other species of christianity have failed to enter.

Christianity has historicly glorified suffering because the people must suceptable to infection of the christian meme are those who are in suffering. Poor are bribeds with riches in heaven, the ill are told of a new life after death, the weak are told of divine vengance.

It is so because if it were not so chrisitanity would not be, just as the beaver has big teeth or it would not be, or because giraffes have long necks or they would not be. Religions edapt over time. the reason they have the dogma they have is because if they did not have them, they would not exist today.

Hazer · 2004-02-27 00:54:54

Interesting way to think of ideologies. I suppose you could metaphorically call tradition "Mental DNA"

replicant7 · 2004-02-27 05:49:30

Hi scott...I think your design for the prototype Martian settlement is a sensible one....however, I can't seem to avoid considering 'tribal' in its more primitive perspective.....'tribal' to me always evokes images such as the civil war in Rwanda between the Hutus and Tutsis, leading to gross human rights violations...or the ethnic violence/cleansing in the Balkans.

Bill White · 2004-02-27 09:59:25

Interesting way to think of ideologies. I suppose you could metaphorically call tradition "Mental DNA"

Hazer & Alt2War Try a google search of "meme" or "memetics"

Folks are trying to create a science of mental DNA with mixed success.

Scott G. Beach · 2004-02-27 13:37:49

replicant7:

You wrote, "I can't seem to avoid considering 'tribal' in its more primitive perspective.....'tribal' to me always evokes images such as the civil war in Rwanda."

Warfare is not limited to tribal societies. On a per capita basis, warfare is more likely to be initiated by chiefdoms and states. I have tried to minimize the possibility of warfare by including various provisions of my draft Martian constitution (http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/owningmars.htm). It prohibits taking weapons to Mars (in accordance with current international laws) and it creates a 1-kilometer-wide buffer zone between settlements (no possibility of border wars) and it requires each settlement to have a Sociocultural Development Plan (the implementation of such plans should keep the person-to-resources ratio below the threshold that leads to warfare).

And, in order to further minimize the possibility of warfare, I hope that the 8 experimental neighborhoods in The City of Euthenia will be composed of young couples from the 92 national neighborhoods. In the first two years of the City's operation, before the experimental neighborhoods are completed, young people from DIFFERENT national neighborhoods could meet and court and marry and then be elected to live in the experimental neighborhoods. The first Martian explorers and settlers would be drawn from their number, so the first Martians would represent all of the peoples of Earth. This blending of cultures and races would minimize the "us" versus "them" dynamic that often contributes to warfare.

In summary, with proper planning, I believe that we can lay a firm foundation for a peaceful and prosperous Martian civilization.

Cobra Commander · 2004-02-27 21:15:23

I have tried to minimize the possibility of warfare by including various provisions of my draft Martian constitution (http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/owningmars.htm). It prohibits taking weapons to Mars (in accordance with current international laws)

Hmm. Now I'm starting to support this constitution. If someone "brings" God, I'll bring the guns. Once one guy has a gun and a god, everyone's gonna want one, and they'll fight over it! We'll make a fortune, tax-free!

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2004-03-03 05:40:58

don't worry, they'll all be exported, the Hindu scriptures, the Vatican, Buddism....

Just as it happened in the past, the South American missionaries, the Crusades, the expansion of the Ottoman Empire, the quest for the grail, the spread of Buddism.
One of our main futrue explorers and conquerors may be the men and women preaching the divine way.

:bars:
Civilisations have always looked for answers asked questions about the meaning of life. It will give the religion groups a great oppurtunity for trying to new people on new worlds.

JammerG55 · 2004-03-20 15:37:12

God's every were so there's no need to expourt god. :;): ::shrugs::

ERRORIST · 2004-03-20 20:26:15

He is already there and every where else in the universe simultaneously. We are his children playing on his playground in a small portion of his universe. Genisis 2.0:"THUS THE HEAVANS AND THE EARTH WERE FINISHED AND ALL THE HOST OF THEM". This explains it all to me. life is teaming out there.

dicktice · 2004-03-21 09:51:35

Define "every where else in the universe simultaineously" within the context of General Relativity, lightspeed and gravity, if you please. I'd be interested in knowing, because it's got me confused.

ERRORIST · 2004-03-21 11:08:04

For God nothing is impossile but for man it is.

dicktice · 2004-03-21 13:25:52

That's sick, if not plain stupid. Who convinced you--a rational being--of such a cop-out? Simultaineousness, I think, was the question.

MarsDog · 2004-04-02 05:36:20

God is just the extrapolated leader of the pack animal.
Bring it along; because it would be impossible to leave behind.

idiom · 2004-04-23 05:54:37

I'd be interested in knowing, because it's got me confused.

Suprise.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools,

Romans 1

Anyways, it is far more likely that the first to Mars will be religious fanatics. Why would athiests go? Eventually life will evolve there anyway right?

On tribal government: The Only government ordained by God in the Bible was tribal, and was periodically ruled by Judges who helped settle disputes and kept the borders intact.

In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes.

Judges 17

No athiests going round telling everybody what is right and wrong. No nobody telling anybody what is right and wrong. So if Christians hit Mars first, you should see total anarchy, except when somebody tries to set up a government. Then they all get together and overthrow it. If Catholics get there first, maybe a Theocracy, maybe everybody goes monastic. If Muslims hit Mars first... Sharia, Iran. If athiests hit it first, Tolitarian rule.

It prohibits taking weapons to Mars

Isn't this shoving something down someones throat? Or is it an import ban to protect the local weapons manufacturers?

The more we try to stop God going to Mars the harder the bible-thumpers are going to try to get there first.

Besides, it would be hard to do any science on Mars without God handily giving us physical laws, and underpinng useful rules of thumb like Occams Razor.

ChristianDude · 2004-05-19 04:54:42

Believing that God is everywere at the same time is a matter of belief. However, is there a realistic alternative. I do not think so. The explanation used bij science as a fact !is never proven! an will never be proven! because it cannot be proven!
Science states, taht something is scientificly proven when: it is reproducable under the same conditions. How will you ever do that? You'll always need a labrotory.
And besides, there was no one really there who could prove that the Big Band really happend.

Anyway, as I said its a maater of belief, and if you're not open for it, nothing will make you change your mind, but if you are, I suggest you should start seeking God!

Best regards to everyone

~Eternal~ · 2004-05-19 16:37:26

Should Theist be exported? - Yes.
Should Liberal Christians be exported? - Yes.
Should Fundamentalist Christians be exported? Unfortunately all of them died on a mysterious life support failure mid-trip.
Should religion be exported? YES!
Religion often reflects harmony and peace in ones life

ChristianDude · 2004-05-31 13:20:27

Why the fundamentalists???
:hm:

©

MarsDog · 2004-05-31 15:03:59

Mars is already a God.
All the religious entering would be well advised to convert.
Otherwise - hacked to death; there will be the peace of the true religion.
-
The green little men will make it so.

Scott G. Beach · 2004-05-31 16:05:35

ChristianDude:

The ghost of Giordano Bruno may have had something to do with that life-support systems failure.

MarsDog · 2004-05-31 19:16:31

Had Giordano Bruno lived under Communism, the state doctors would have sent him to Siberia as a "sluggish schizophrenic"; obviously mentally ill for challenging those in power.
-
What dogmas will the Mars religion settlers invent ?

Scott G. Beach · 2004-06-01 00:02:05

MarsDog:

Martian settlers will adopt the dogma that Phi is their world's most astonishing number.

(See The Golden Ratio: The Story of Phi, The World's Most Astonishing Number, by Mario Livio.)

ChristianDude · 2004-06-01 06:13:44

Mr. Beach

Still, that does not really answers my qeustion. I asked WHY????

©
:hm:

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-01 09:11:17

And besides, there was no one really there who could prove that the Big Band really happend.

:laugh: The image that little typographical error conjures...

Martian settlers will adopt the dogma that Phi is their world's most astonishing number.

Well, that's hardly dogma. It's not a religion so much as an odd fixation. Curious perhaps, but hardly the foundation of a new Martian philosphy.

What will be really interesting to see is how various religions morph under Martian conditions. Some will certainly make the transition more smoothly than others. Whatever the case, we're going to have the traditional religions existing alongside whatever oddball faiths spring up on Mars. Still others will look on the whole spectacle with varying degrees of derision and amusement.

Who knows, maybe the New Martian version of the Bible will be proportioned in a golden rectangle. But I for one doubt it.

smurf975 · 2004-06-01 14:51:05

My personal opinion would is that religion and believing in an after-life are different things.

Religions are like a political party and believing in something is like a personal opinion like what is you favorite color, music and other stuff.

There fore I think a religion should be treated like capitalism, communisme, socialism or any other political ideology. But not as bringing God is a bad thing because, that is a personal thing / issue.

If you make a difference between religion(politics) and believing (color/left handed/sexuality) its like asking should we allow gays or hetereos on Mars? Should Mars be only be for left handed people?

I say let religion be out of it for now and allow people to pray and believe. And in the future have religions as political parties. Like now I’m paying taxes for some church in what I don’t even believe in.

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