Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

Rxke · 2004-05-22 00:56:03

What's in the pipeline for Spirit?
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=12928]A Hike up the Hills
I sure hope the rover stays functional for at least another month or two, those places certainly look promising...

Rxke · 2004-05-22 01:44:35

lotsa new pics in at Lyle, still browsing, but check this one out...

http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1N1383 … Protruding dark sheet-like object/rock?...

EDIT: Hmmm... Probably 'just' one of those slab-like concretions jutting out. But why?

Rxke · 2004-05-22 01:55:58

http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1N1381 … tml]Whisps of Clouds? Pretty faint, but I think this is a mighty interesting pic... Doesnt look like random noise, treshshold and distribution of 'whiter' pixels is too coherent for that.

Rxke · 2004-05-22 11:00:32

The 'berries are supposed to be harder than the surroundings, no? If you look at the bottom of this http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery](pseudocolour) pic, you see a 'little riverbed' where they are not in place anymore... What could be the workings behind this?
I've probably seen gazillions of samey pics before, but now it struck me as strange...

Stu · 2004-05-23 08:09:01

Look at these and whisper a "Thank you" to the Powers That Be that Opportunity landed inside Eagle Crater, and not Endurance...!!!

http://www.marsunearthed.com/Opportunit … ..._3D.htm

atomoid · 2004-05-23 17:25:51

The 'berries are supposed to be harder than the surroundings, no? If you look at the bottom of this http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery](pseudocolour) pic, you see a 'little riverbed' where they are not in place anymore... What could be the workings behind this?
I've probably seen gazillions of samey pics before, but now it struck me as strange...

The same thing struck me, and its perplexing that there is even much variation in the surface at all considering this area has had so much time to reach erosional equilibrium. here's a guess:

- The "streambeds": one possibility is that the surface expands/contracts perhaps ice is freezign/thawing under the surface and cracks open up to take a gulp of berries and close up again when conditions change. If this is true, then the rover should be able to dig these areas and find concentrations of berries just under the surface of these streambeds. Either that or the cracks were just the result of dryout and they swalled the berries and have since been filled in by dust. in that case these crack features are extremely old and the net loss of topsoil in this area is not very substantial. However, I assume the loss of topsoils here due to wind erosion to be at least a meter since these deposits were laid down in order to get the concentration of berries that we see littered at the surface as compared to their apparent relatively low concentration in the undersoil. Once the berries reach a certain concentration at the surface this erosion is slowed and any crack formation can proceed onward for ages, unerased by erosion.

- There were also many areas such as "first base" i think it was, that looked like a "divet" with a flat rock at the bottom: maybe there was a layer of bedrock atop all of what we see that was *much" softer. this layer has since almost compeltely eroded away. the areas where we see flat rock surfaces at the same level of the soil might perhaps be the current remnant of this layer or a similarly soft layer that was below it. anywhere there were large chunks of this layer thrown about by cratering and more impacts subsequently partially burried these debris, these chunks would eventually dissolve faster than the current soil line to go below the soil line leaving "divets" that have a flat rock surface at the bottom that is still eroding downward, slowly deepening/widening the divet.

Rxke · 2004-05-24 00:32:59

UGH, yes... Stupid me.

You're right, probably cracked slabs of sediments where the 'berries don't show... The impact probably caused this.

REB · 2004-05-24 06:35:32

Watch your step Oppy. It looks steeeeep!

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … ...M1.HTML

Palomar · 2004-05-24 12:05:24

Would anyone happen to know or have a rough estimate of a) how many pics on average, per Sol, S & O take between them and b) if their time is somewhat equally split between examining the surface of Mars (looking down and out) and looking skyward? Rex's questions in the "Water on Mars" thread (Falling Snow...) prompted these questions. I'm more interested in atmospherics/meterology, so naturally I'm wondering how much time might be spent with S & O "looking up."
I've not seen estimates myself, and Google isn't a help.
A bit off-beat, I know, but thought I'd ask anyway. Thanks.
--Cindy
rgcarnes
Member
At the very bottom of this page at JPL: JPL Rovers Home
there is a questions and comments entry. It seems like a fair question to ask of them and see if they respond.
Rxke
Pioneer Member
While you're at it, you could ask about how many combined measurements they do when a probe does an overpass, and if the numerous sun pics give them extra (atmospherical) information, besides orientation info...

::drums fingers on desk:: I'm still waiting for a reply. I wrote them the day I asked here. Will write again if they don't respond in another couple of days.

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2004-05-24 18:40:57

Hi people!
I've been otherwise occupied and haven't had a chance to keep up with events here at New Mars lately. There's so much going on in various threads, it's difficult to catch up after being away a while!
Thanks to everyone who's put the 'pick-of-the-pictures' from Mars here for all to see - it certainly helps those of us scrambling to keep up.

By way of trying to 'do my bit', in return, I discovered http://www.space.com/imageoftheday/imag … .html]THIS IMAGE.
It gives a neat '3-D' overview of what they hope to achieve with Spirit over the next few weeks and more. And it helps to visualise the layout of the Columbia Hills and where the sites of interest lie.

Rxke · 2004-05-24 20:16:35

heehe, Shaun, beat you to it!

see my first post here on may 22!

Stu · 2004-05-24 22:28:44

Just imagine standing on this outcrop and looking down into Endurance...

http://www.marsunearthed.com/Opportunit … ..._3D.htm

Wow!!

Shaun Barrett · 2004-05-25 07:45:32

Wow is right, Stu! How I'd love to be there.

Hi Rik!
Oops!! Sorry. I should have known someone else would find that picture while I wasn't looking. But anyhow, you're one of the people I was thanking for keeping us up to date - and this proves you're doing a great job!

Thanks again to all of you talented amateur photographic journalists here

atomoid · 2004-05-26 05:12:35

A bonanza of interesting features can be seen
http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1P1386 … PG.html]in this sol 118 picture:

I dont know about you, but the details in the lower right look like what you get when you have puddling of water. I see this kind of stuff all over the place on earth so its pretty striking to see it on Mars looking almost exactly the same:
It looks like the tiny plateaus built up after rainwater or snowmelt gently carried some lightweight dust down these cracks and into the puddle where it settled out to form these little "sandbars" at the mouth of the trickle. It looks like there was a couple of melt sessions since there are two distinct sandbars (or you could say "dustbars").

And then just to the left of that, you'll see 3 areas of disrupted soil at the bedrock/soil interface, the soil sure looks *recently* disturbed,
heres a http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1P1385 … .html]shot of this same area from sol 117,
as well as the extreme bottom of http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1N1384 … .html]this one from sol 116,
and also http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1N1384 … .html]this shot from sol 115.

Did Opp step on this rock and move it? If so, the rock must be a pretty thin plate resting on top of the soil!

dicktice · 2004-05-26 10:46:01

Those marvelous Opportunity pics being posted have those little balls you are calling blue berries, scattered all about! What the heck are they doing there? They must be telling us something important about that terrain--but what?

Ian Flint · 2004-05-26 12:57:41

It's simple. Martian kids hate blueberries just as much as human kids hate peas. The Martians must not mind as much as us when their kids throw their bluberries out the window, so they don't clean them up very often.

atomoid · 2004-05-26 15:32:10

It's simple. Martian kids hate blueberries just as much as human kids hate peas. The Martians must not mind as much as us when their kids throw their bluberries out the window, so they don't clean them up very often.

lol
i guess it only makes sense that Martian kids are the only ones in the solar sytem that eat their peas, being green and all... -but of course they dont like those Earth-colored blueberries one bit!

atomoid · 2004-05-26 15:54:31

Those marvelous Opportunity pics being posted have those little balls you are calling blue berries, scattered all about! What the heck are they doing there? They must be telling us something important about that terrain--but what?

in answer to your question, http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1P1385 … l]pictures like this beg this explanation (or "guess" anyway):

Look at the top part of the photo, notice the "ring" of berries concentrated a certain distace away from the rock edge.

1) As the rock slowly eroded, the berries popped out and rolled down the surface to collect in a pile ringing the edge of the rock.
2) As the rock eroded further, it became less sloped so the berries that pooped out didnt roll as far and as the rock dwindled, this edge became thin enough that it started disappearing althoghether, retreating away from the blueberry pile at its edge.
3) We are left with scenes like this that have an odd "ring" of blueberries circumscribing the edges of many rocks.

- note that not all rock edges exhibit this feature, this may have something to do with wind direction and sloping of the soils at different times during this process (are the "rings" all on the windfacing side of the rocks?)
- Judging by the amount of berries collected and the apparent concentration of them in the rocks, this would suggest that this particular rock surface here has only eroded by several inches.

There may have been soil/rock layers on top of the current terrain that was much softer and has since almost completely blown away with the wind, leaving only its blueberries behind. I would assume that the long-gone ancient topmost layers (being most recently laid down) would never get too cemented and would erode and blow away very quickly, whereas any layers beneath them would have the action of pressure and environmental alterings over time to solidfiy them and perhaps even metamorphose them into a much stonger matrix. The terrain we see today is probably comprised of the exhumed remnants of such a deeper layer.

dicktice · 2004-05-27 06:26:07

Okay, that's what they're telling us about the terrain. Now, what are the blueberries telling us about themselves, I wonder?

Palomar · 2004-05-27 06:39:01

Now, what are the blueberries telling us about themselves, I wonder?

*I'm still going with "petrified fungi" until proven wrong.

***

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/ro … pportunity going into deep-sleep mode

Concern about the risks of cold damage to "one of its instruments" (the Mini-TES).

--Cindy

Rxke · 2004-05-27 07:32:16

Yes, (idn't read the article) they already did-the deep-sleep trick successfully once, and temp inside dropped down to 3k above minimum specifications...
But... despite the so-far-so-good, what if there is let's say more wind or something one night, so that it drops below that.
3k is not much margin.
And losing mini-tes would be horrible, i'd rather see the mission cut short in the future, than operating longer w/o mini-tes, esp when they'd decide to go into the crater.

Stu · 2004-05-29 07:37:28

AT LAST!!! A half-decent JPL panorama of the Columbia Hills...!

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … ...3R1.jpg

And look, there's even a monolith on the side of one of the hills...! :;):

cassioli · 2004-05-29 13:32:19

AT LAST!!! A half-decent JPL panorama of the Columbia Hills...!
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … ...3R1.jpg
And look, there's even a monolith on the side of one of the hills...! :;):

Nice sky!

Rxke · 2004-05-29 14:35:25

Yes, AT LAST they got it right!

Shaun Barrett · 2004-05-30 07:29:12

Anybody notice that Opportunity rolled right over a weathered old plank of wood on Sol 115?
Have a look at the mosaic of navcam images at http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … .html]this site.
Opportunity crunched over this ancient remnant of the Little Martian House on the Planum, which used to sit right where the meteorite that formed Endurance Crater landed, and never even stopped to look at it!

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