Terraforming the Earthâ€™s great Deserts - Turning the Sahara into a rainforest.

HeloTeacher · 2004-05-08 09:22:28

Another concept is a tall chimney type structure reaching the colder air, above, letting it sink below

Just a quick technical note. The air will not sink. Subsiding (sinking) air warms faster than the normal atmospheric lapse rate. 3 degrees per thousand feet vs 2. Air from 10,000 feet, for instance, would normally heat up by 30 degrees while coming down. It is a result of the pressure changes.

MarsDog · 2004-05-11 06:48:57

The concept is inversion.
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Air immediately above the sand is very hot.
Several stories above, the air is cooler.
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The local desert people would build a tall structure, reaching above the house, and let the cooler air fall.
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Houses built to western standards needed large air conditioning units. (I saw it in an old National Geographic.)

RobS · 2004-05-14 22:32:00

If you check a good map of the Sahara, you will see that it already has several "asteroids": mountain massifs that have temporary rivers flowing down them.

All the desert areas of the world are where they are for reason. They generally represent areas where atmospheric circulation, which rises at the equator (causing high rainfall and rainforests) descends. So you can't wring much water out of the air over the Sahara; it just doesn't have very much, because the water was wrung out of the air over the equator.

The best way to "terraform" the permanent deserts is to develop cheap desalination, and this is coming bit by bit, year by year. They have vast solar power, so they have energy available for desalination. Watch out, world, when really cheap desalination is possible. The Sahara and Australia are both as large as the entire United States and have low population densities. Add water, and you have the potential for hundreds of millions of people.

-- RobS

MarsDog · 2004-05-16 00:36:58

You have to cool the Sahara down somehow. Instead of fresh water, build numerous salt water canals and arrange solar panels to reflect onto the water to increase evaporation and cloud formation. In addition to evaporative cooling, electricity would be generated.

Dook · 2004-05-29 08:53:36

The Sahara is a mass of moving sand and should be left that way. The entire planet cannot be green. You have to have some jungles and some deserts but you can bring more water to other areas of Africa that are lacking.

Small solar powered dehumidifier farms could condense water from the hot air, hot air holds much more water than cool air does. These would provide enough water to sustain a small farm. The problem is convincing the locals that shifting away from the relatively easy job of raising cattle to labor intensive farming is the way to go.

Mundaka · 2004-05-29 13:16:12

Palomar · 2004-05-29 13:39:47

Mundaka: The deserts are some of the most beautiful land I've ever seen -- with an astounding array of life, btw. They vary so much even within the same desert that every few miles you get a completely new perspective.
This winter I'll wake up some morning and my favorite ochers and reds and yellows and tans and purples will be covered and accented with snow under a brilliant blue sky, and I'll bundle up in sweaters and crank up the car and take my lady on a drive through the pecan orchards and fields of chili and maize

*I couldn't agree with you more! I love the Chihuahuan Desert too. Actually, I like it better in the summertime...when it's so hot (especially in July) and the sky looks white instead of blue. "The White Days of Summer" I call it (and no...it's not pollution, in case non-residents are wondering). But the desert is marvelous all year around. From the blossoms of ocotillo cacti in the spring (and other cacti as well, but ocotillo are my favorite) to the prickly-pear cacti turning a dusty purple color in the autumn.

There's strength in the desert wilderness, too. Every time my husband and I go for a cruise away from the city and into the small canyons, or up into the mountains, or just across a wide expanse of high desert, all tension and stress melts away as if the desert is soaking it in. It's so refreshing and healing. The desert gets into your bones; it becomes a part of you.

Low humidity, **big dark starry skies**, and few mosquitos besides.

go to the theater in Old Mesilla where they serve locally grown and produced dry desert wine with your popcorn

*Fountain Theater, right? We've never been inside (have walked/driven past it a zillion times, though). I don't like wine anyway (and with popcorn??).

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-05-29 14:18:20

Of course, the desert is beautiful when you are an American, and you can afford a house, a car, electricity, clothes, and most important, you can afford food and water, as you want it and when you want it.

*Thanks, BGD. I'm daily reminded of how unworthy and rotten I am because I'm an American.

It's -all our fault-. Everything is.

Sorry for living. :down:

--Cindy

P.S.: Never mind that (regardless of the Bush Administration, 9/11, etc.), the American people have been one of the most generous and charitable of all. {::EDIT:: Never mind that it takes wealth to create generosity and charitableness to begin with...} Yes, let's just focus on how **bad** Americans are and forget the good. Thanks again. :down:

Hopefully we can aspire to be as wonderful and perfect as the remainder of the world.

::EDIT:: Hey Mundaka, I think I'll erase my post. You know, I feel guilty for driving that Rolls Royce out there, eating Russian caviar for breakfast every morning, etc., especially when *my mother* lived, as a child, in a humble home and it was so cold inside during the winters that the mopping water froze into ice on the floors. Yeah, I think I'll send back the solid marble jacuzzi too...and nix the plans for the Olympic-sized swimming pool. Of course, I've never had to work a day in my life either...$$$ floats to me on golden platters because I'm an American. I feel so ashamed...really. All of America's wealth fell out of the clouds...(-no one- ever WORKED for it, we just all sat around stuffing our faces with Twinkies and Ding-Dongs 24/7 and that's how America became wealthy and powerful).

God forbid I stick up for the U.S. portion of the Chihuahuan desert that I live in, and that I enjoy its beauty.

And if anyone goes off on race relations in this nation, my great-great grandmother was Native American (read: don't even THINK about going there).

-end rant-

Sorry, back on topic.

Palomar · 2004-05-29 15:04:57

Sorry, but the accent was not on "American".

*Bullsh*t.

I see you've gone back and erased the word "American" from your original post.

Check my first response to you -- I quoted you, and the word "American" is there. Editing your original post to delete the words "are an American, and you" does *not* also edit what's in my quote box.

Too bad for you. (Nice, try, though to try and cover your tracks -- but too bad I'm not stupid).

--Cindy

P.S.: Don't worry, Josh/Adrian...this is over as far as I'm concerned.

Mundaka · 2004-05-29 20:17:46

Dook · 2004-05-29 20:56:04

LOL

MarsDog · 2004-05-29 23:35:21

Just push all the sand in the Sahara into the ocean to make a large sandbar, somewhat like Florida, with large marshes and lakes. Or even more extreme, use the sand to form islands, such as the Canary Islands nearby.

Rxke · 2004-05-30 02:07:29

Or even more extreme, use the sand to form islands, such as the Canary Islands nearby.

The Saoudi's are doing exactly that... Building islands, in the form of palm-trees(!) etc... Pretty impressive project.

(EDIT: I'm *not* going to comment on the 'politics' thing, i tried to, but before i hit 'submit' i realised it could be misinterpreted... Luv y'all! )

Mundaka · 2004-05-30 04:39:32

MarsDog · 2004-05-30 09:29:29

US need for oil is providing the dollars for building islands in Saudi Arabia.
After the North African people acquire the means, they will not preserve the sands of the Sahara for aesthetic reasons; they might even flatten the mountains to improve the weather.

smurf975 · 2004-05-30 21:02:21

Speaking as a guy who chose to move to the desert, my question is why would anybody want to change it?

Hungry people

MarsDog · 2004-05-31 11:55:29

Profit from feeding the hungry people will provide retirement funds to turn the sands of the Sahara into beaches, only bigger than the Florida sandbar.

smurf975 · 2004-05-31 17:58:41

Profit from feeding the hungry people will provide retirement funds to turn the sands of the Sahara into beaches, only bigger than the Florida sandbar.

Well that's a possibility, actually I posted something similair on another Mars site(before I knew about this site and this tread)http://www.redcolony.com/]redcolony that makes good use of the water. You can find the post http://p205.ezboard.com/fredcolonyfrm4. … topic]here however I got no replies emoticon

Following are some bits of the post:

Terra forming.... Earth! Talking about Mars terra forming and terraforming in general made me think of all the regions on Earth that also could use some forming.
I know doing it on Earth would be a more sensitive subject, as it’s a living planet. However I’m not arguing on chancing Earths climate but to make better use of the Earth.
However terra forming on Earth is not unusable at all. Just look at the dykes in the Netherlands, Hoover dam, Rice terraces in South East Asian countries and there are many more other examples. They allowed humankind to get to the level it is now but also destroyed a lot of natural habitats of the local species.
My primary objectives on how Earth could be used better are in these environments: Oceans/Fishing and Deserts.
They are basically on how you could improve fishing and farming. And solving the problem of fresh water in dry regions.
However the food problem could be easily solved if humans would accept to eat insects such as locust and ants. As they could be good meat replacements and are very easy to grow/cultivate. But I don’t think that’s ever going to happen.
So lets dive into the Ocean/Fishing problem. Most people know that the oceans are being over-fished. However mostly by rich and or western nations. This problem can be overcome by using fish farms in the oceans/lakes/rivers or even on land. You could even use the Tilapia fish that an article on this site (Mars Meat) has pointed out.
There are some experiments going on with fish farms in oceans or lakes. And I think they should be supported more. A lot of fish can be raised, as cattle would be on land.
However I have another use for deserts, that is to to irrigate them by using seawater. As it’s possible to pump oil from Russia to Pakistan through a lot of independent countries and great distances. So it would be possible to pump seawater from oceans to the desserts.
You have two options with this seawater one is to simply pump it into a basin and form a salt-water lake. Introduce saltwater fish(farms) into them and you have locals that can eat/fish/sell those fish. A side effect would be that the water would vaporize and fall down and rain and form rivers that could feed a fresh water lake and that would could be used for irrigation of farms and for fresh water fish (farms).
However I can see environmental changes due to pumping water in to no water regions. As the water will condense and form clouds and you can’t tell were it will fall down. Unless there are some big hills or other factors that would stop the clouds from moving into areas that already have plenty of rainfall and now perhaps will be flooded. But still it’s a better solution then hunger. Environmentalists don’t argue with me but with the people that are skin over bone! And tell them they will have to find another way to find food. Except of course if they are going to drown but I think canals and dykes can solve this problem.

MarsDog · 2004-05-31 18:16:17

It is going to happen.
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Just as the colder places could only support a few hunter gatherers until the technology improved. Now construction projects are moving more dirt than geological processes. The next fronteir will be the deserts and oceans. Outer space, Mars included, will need a lot more technology to get beyond exploration.

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#26 2004-05-08 09:22:28

Re: Terraforming the Earthâ€™s great Deserts - Turning the Sahara into a rainforest.

#27 2004-05-11 06:48:57

Re: Terraforming the Earthâ€™s great Deserts - Turning the Sahara into a rainforest.

#28 2004-05-14 22:32:00

Re: Terraforming the Earthâ€™s great Deserts - Turning the Sahara into a rainforest.

#29 2004-05-16 00:36:58

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#30 2004-05-29 08:53:36

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#31 2004-05-29 13:16:12

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#32 2004-05-29 13:39:47

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#33 2004-05-29 14:18:20

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#34 2004-05-29 15:04:57

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#35 2004-05-29 20:17:46

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#36 2004-05-29 20:56:04

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#37 2004-05-29 23:35:21

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#38 2004-05-30 02:07:29

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#39 2004-05-30 04:39:32

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#40 2004-05-30 09:29:29

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#41 2004-05-30 21:02:21

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#42 2004-05-31 11:55:29

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#43 2004-05-31 17:58:41

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