Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

cassioli · 2004-05-04 14:56:49

Sorry, couldn't wait for official color images!

Luca

Stu · 2004-05-04 16:16:51

Cass, you're amazing, seriously...

Stephen · 2004-05-04 19:21:45

Interesting pic http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opport … 1.JPG]here.

That almost looks like a "pool" of dust judging from the way those sand ripplies vanish at its edge and the rocks peep above its surface. (A Martian version of quicksand maybe?)

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Stephen

cassioli · 2004-05-05 04:05:33

Interesting pic http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opport … 1.JPG]here.
That almost looks like a "pool" of dust judging from the way those sand ripplies vanish at its edge and the rocks peep above its surface. (A Martian version of quicksand maybe?)
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Stephen

Just let's send the rover there and let's see!

I'm starting to feel like being somewhere tied up to a chair, unable to do anything else than looking around! :rant:

I can't touch objects, I can't pick up them to determine their weight or determine their nature by touch, I am even compelled to wear sun glasses so I am not able to see true colors of objects surrounding me, and I am also unable to see if something is moving (wind), I can't understand if I am looking at sand or at ice or a water, I can't do ANYTHING but looking around. :rant:

Guys, it's VERY frustrating! Next rover will have to be REALLY more complex: they will have to carry at least:
- a camcorder
- a robotic arm with pliers and with force-feedback measurement ability
- a water detector
- a little shovel in place of "digginig-wheels" (!!)
- a compass (or similar) to know rover's orientation at each time of the day
- pancam orientation data
- no more wheels, walking robot are now available on the market for a few thousands of dollars, and they can walk, dance, run, they can even rise up if they fall down! (Try to google for ASIMO or QRIO!). And we are still there wondering if our wheels will be able to tolerate the Endurance steep! :rant:

Luca

Rxke · 2004-05-05 06:07:31

Problems for Spirit... http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mars-mer … SpaceDaily

GraemeSkinner · 2004-05-06 01:19:54

http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2P1370 … tml]Spirit - Sol120 This image really shows what a manned rover will have to overcome, can you imagine hitting that pointy rock at any sort of speed (ouch!)

The http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2N1370 … html]ridge in this image is excellent.

Graeme

Palomar · 2004-05-06 07:22:05

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/ro … ]Preparing for robot death

*Very nice article. Squyres and etc mention their emotional ties to the 'bots, yet anticipating their lives getting back to normal. Discusses the different personalities of S & O, despite being twins. I have a tendency to think of our space robots and probes as beings, rather than as mere machines. But then I often think of planets and moons as children to be protected and cared for, so...

"'We poured our hearts and souls into these things for years, so how wouldn't there be? In fact, for me personally, it was actually a little hard just to say goodbye to them at launch. It's going to be very hard to say goodbye to them forever,' Squyres told SPACE.com."

--Cindy

dicktice · 2004-05-06 08:49:55

Aw, Mom. . . .

Stu · 2004-05-06 10:48:53

What can I say, except WOW...

http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/collection … er_pan.jpg

It's as if you're there!

cassioli · 2004-05-06 12:57:37

What can I say, except WOW...
http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/collection … er_pan.jpg
It's as if you're there!

This crater is VERY strange! Absurd colors!!!

BTW, I found an interesting image which maybe explains why there are so many bluberries here:

http://ralphaeschliman.com/mars/opls.jpg]Opportunity Landing site - color

Maybe the dark area has the same origin of Gusev's one:

http://ralphaeschliman.com/mars/guls.jpg]Spirit landing site - color

http://ralphaeschliman.com/id22.htm]The "maps home page"

This is a very nice map, with locations nomenclature and landing sites of various missions:
http://ralphaeschliman.com/mars/mlassm2.jpg]Big color 3d map

Luca

Stu · 2004-05-06 13:21:33

http://ralphaeschliman.com/id22.htm]The "maps home page"

I've been looking for a maps of Valles Marineris as good as this for literally YEARS!! Thanks v v much for posting the link. Everyone should take a look at this site

cassioli · 2004-05-06 13:52:40

http://ralphaeschliman.com/id22.htm]The "maps home page"
I've been looking for a maps of Valles Marineris as good as this for literally YEARS!! Thanks v v much for posting the link. Everyone should take a look at this site

I found this great site just a few minutes ago, and just by chance: I was trying to find again http://geopubs.wr.usgs.gov/open-file/of02-282/]this map, which I remembered I saw somewhere.... but which is quite unuseful without a big plotter!

Luca

cassioli · 2004-05-06 13:58:04

I've been looking for a maps of Valles Marineris...

Maybe http://www.the-planet-mars.com/mars-cha … .html]this page (taken from http://www.the-planet-mars.com/]this list) will be more useful to you.
(A lucky night today to look for Mars images, for me! )

Luca

atomoid · 2004-05-06 14:50:14

What do you suppose the "twig" lying just in front of the "ice dunes" at the bottom of http://mars.gh.wh.uni-dortmund.de/mer/o … 6.jpg]this image in Endurance crater is? Is it sitting partially raised above the ground casting a shadow and showing a glimpse of sand under behind it or is it just a light area on the side of a rock facing us?

cassioli · 2004-05-07 01:37:21

What do you suppose the "twig" lying just in front of the "ice dunes" at the bottom of http://mars.gh.wh.uni-dortmund.de/mer/o … 6.jpg]this image in Endurance crater is? Is it sitting partially raised above the ground casting a shadow and showing a glimpse of sand under behind it or is it just a light area on the side of a rock facing us?

It could be a martian creature just escaped from the near hole in the sand to go to the ice dune to have some water...
...or it can be another fu**ed rock
Actually, it's still too far to suppose anything about it.

About strange endurance color and strange dunes at its bottom
I know that on Earth's Moon ther is water-ice inside deep craters in polasrs regions, because hey never receive enough sunlight to melt the ice.
I suppose that the strange dark color of the bottom part of Endurance is caused by the crater's shadow (although I can't actually see its edge), which covers the bottom part. If the crater is deep enough, and if sun is low enough (always or in a quite long part of the year), probably we could have ice inside the crater.
But I need more info to proof this:
- How wide Endurance is?
- How deep?
- What is the inclination of Mars axis?
- What is the max Sun elevation in this area, now and during martian year?

I can obtain the last info with a program of mine, but I need the other (I know you know them, don't let me google them... )

Luca

Stu · 2004-05-07 01:45:41

- How wide Endurance is?
- How deep?
- What is the inclination of Mars axis?

Steve S said in yesterday's press briefing that they think the crater is 130 m wide and 20 m deep.

Mars' axial inclination is 23.59 degrees.

Hope this helps - make us some more lovely pics!

cassioli · 2004-05-07 02:02:37

- How wide Endurance is?
- How deep?
- What is the inclination of Mars axis?
Steve S said in yesterday's press briefing that they think the crater is 130 m wide and 20 m deep.
Mars' axial inclination is 23.59 degrees.

Calculating, please wait..... zzzzzzzzzzz......

Hope this helps - make us some more lovely pics!

Did you already see http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … r.jpg]this from my other post?

cassioli · 2004-05-07 02:30:16

A rough calculation says that, to have the bottom of an equatorial martian crater 130m wide never hit by direct sunlight, the crater should be at least 145m deep...

Infact, due to ~24 degrees planet inclination, at the equator (Opportunity is around 2 degrees south of equator) the Sun never goes down more than 24 degrees at noon (with respect to vertical axis), so tan(24) = 65m/depth ==> depth=145m

The shadow arrives to the center of the crater only when sun goes down to at least 73 degrees from vertical axis, but I don't know how long it will remain under that angle during the Sol.

But there is another possibility:
although enlightment of Endurance appears not compatible with ice at its bottom, we must consider Mars average temperature: I remember surface temperature never rises over 20 degrees (Centigrade), and goes down several degrees under 0; so here it is what it could happen: during warmer hours, water vapour is in the air; when temperature falls under 0, vapour condenses and even freeze on Endurance surface; next Sol, in warmer hours, frost melts, and resulting water falls toward crater's bottom, where it freeze again in colder hours; repeating this process for several days, I suppose we could obtain ice accumulation in the bottom reagion of the crater.

Now we have just to go there and dig it to proof this!

Luca

Stu · 2004-05-07 03:20:48

"Dear Earth,

Endurance Crater is gorgeous! I can see amazing outcrops feet deep, much better than the ones I found inside Eagle... I can see big boulders balanced precariously on the far, steep slopes... I can see overhangs you could hide R2D2 under... down there there are enigmatic, glittering ripples of dust on the crater floor... nearby I found strange flat areas which may or may not be small puddles of briny water...

But I thought you might like to see this...

http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/galler … _p101.html

Love to all,

Opportunity"

AAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

I swear that if I had the money I'd personally finance a manned Mars shot just so I could go to Mars, bounce over to Opportunity and snap that ***** thing off!!! :;):

atomoid · 2004-05-07 04:04:19

AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
I swear that if I had the money I'd personally finance a manned Mars shot just so I could go to Mars, bounce over to Opportunity and snap that ***** thing off!!! :;):

800 millions and theyre going crazy with the freakin joysticks!!! lol :realllymad: :hm: :sleep:

surface temperature never rises over 20 degrees (Centigrade), and goes down several degrees under 0; so here it is what it could happen: during warmer hours, water vapour is in the air; when temperature falls under 0, vapour condenses and even freeze on Endurance surface; next Sol, in warmer hours, frost melts, and resulting water falls toward crater's bottom, where it freeze again in colder hours; repeating this process for several days, I suppose we could obtain ice accumulation in the bottom reagion of the crater.

Are the recessed features in the overhang on the right the south side of the crater always in shade?
would a small portion of the day's released soil water vapor, since its always colder at this sunless point, tend to accumulate as condensation here?
would this eventually build up as ice packs clinging to the recesses of the overhang there (if it doesnt sublimate away first)?
might it under certain conditions melt and form the tiny drip-gullies leading away from beneath the overhang here?
Could the pancam see frost collected here in the mornings (or maybe only frosts noticeably in winter as in Viking's case)?

cassioli · 2004-05-07 05:16:18

http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/galler … gTh](zoom)

This NASA image is a shame: they replaced the navcam grayscale with an artificial red-scale, and they cut off the sky replacing it with that dumb reddish sky.
NASA's behaviour with Mars image is getting very annoying. :rant:

Luca

cassioli · 2004-05-07 05:51:09

Some calculations:

If rovers move at 1 cm/s, they can drive 0.864 Km per day; supposing they drive just 8 hours per day, they would cover 0.288 KM/day.
Till september, we have ~150 days; 150x0.288=43.2 Km
Unfortunately, Gusev's rim is around 60 Km far
But the southern mesa (which maybe was a bunch of little islands in Gusev lake...) are less than 30 Km away!

And probably rovers can run faster than 1 cm/s and 8h/day...

(from http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20040116A.html]here)

Luca

No life on Mars · 2004-05-08 04:32:43

Shame on you NASA because you deceive real Martian scientist.
Martian skys are deep blue, craters are blue everything is blue this Martian blue idyll is only disturbed by green Marsman.
Bluberries are blue, strawberries are red. :band:

cassioli · 2004-05-08 04:48:50

Did you see http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … .html]this incredible pictures by NASA? :band:

Luca

No life on Mars · 2004-05-08 05:04:18

Yes and what?

New Mars Forums

Announcement

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