Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

mike · 2004-04-27 15:20:17

Can anyone give me a basic summary of the work done by the rovers, and the results from the analyisis of their collected data?
Thanks!

cassioli · 2004-04-28 01:30:16

Can anyone give me a basic summary of the work done by the rovers, and the results from the analyisis of their collected data?
Thanks!

A VERY brief summary:
- Opportunity found evidences of the existence of a salt sea on Mars in the past; "how" past, it is not (yet) known.
- Spirit didn't find those evidences yet, and it's going to the Columbia Hills to find them.

There are also several others interesting geological and chemical discoveries, but I'm not so skillfull in those arguments, so I can't help you.

I know it's really too brief for a magazine.... let's see if I am able to go a bit deeper:

Evidences found by opportunity are three:
- hematite existence: this mineral probably formed in water
- cross-layering in rocks: this mean that rocks had been under water for quite a long time
- tracks of ancient crystals: many rocks have several tracks which probably were once filled with salt crystals: so, the water had salt inside it.

"Unofficia discoveries:"
- Both of rovers found plenty of strange bluish spherules (a few millimeters in diameter), referred to as "blueberries": the two rovers landed at two opposite sites of Mars, but "blueberries" are abundant in both of sites. Their origin is still not clear.
- Mars sky is very dusty, and this limits visibility in far distances. This is also supposed to be the cause of the reddish appearance of Martian surface, but actually, when dust level is lower, sky appears to be bluish, just like some rocks whic cover Mars surface. Some rocks also appear to be blu under a layer of red dust.

Technical results:
- Both rovers were able to successfully grind inside rocks (up to 7 millimeters deep) to analyze their interior.
- The navigation system was completely successful, allowing the two rovers to move autonomously over Mars surface: they receive from Earth a command to reach a point on the surface, then they compute the best path to avoid rocks or pass over smaller ones, all without human action.
- The nominal mission was planned to continue for 90 days, but the two rovers are still fully functional, so their mission has been extended till september 2004.
- The rovers drove for several hundred of meters, and Spirit is actually going to cover a 2 Km distance to reach Columbia Hills. Previosu Mars mission, Pathfinder/Sojourner, covered, if I remember right, less than one hundred meters with its single rover "Sojourner".

Other interesting facts:
- Both rovers have 9 cameras: 2 high resolution cameras, 6 low resolution cameras for navigation purpose, and a "microscopic" camera (it actually can generate a 1024x1024 pixels image of a 30x30 mm area). First 8 cameras are in couples to allow stereo vision.
These cameras allowed rovers to send to Earth hundreds of megabytes of images of several types: B/W images, panoramic images, color images, 3D images, close-ups of martian soil and rocks.
- One of the rovers (Spirit) had an hardware problem in the first days of its mission, and it was almost lost; but it was successfully reprogrammed from Earth (about 380 millions kilometers away!), and now it is working fine.
- The rovers wer also able to dig little trenches in Mars soil, by rolling one of the six wheels while the other five where still. This allowed to study the "underground" (just a few centimeters) of Mars.

I can't remember anything else at this moment...

Luca

atomoid · 2004-04-28 01:39:18

NASA's http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/news_ar … html]Press release site kind of gives a running list of news articles that you can go through item by item.

To sum it up, the Mysteries of Mars are being characterized in more and more detail every day. So far, all the digging, grinding, spectrometer readings and geological observations have lead to a few sweeping conclusions such as water existed "for sure" and for long enough to form sedimentary deposits (although this is still being challenged). Stay tuned, what we've learned so far is only knee-jerk formulation of some cursory observations, the most far-reaching theories have yet to be fleshed out by all the new data pouring in...

GJG · 2004-04-28 09:21:47

Luca, I must have missed something big time; but, I don't remember seeing that Spirit sighted any "blueberries" on her side of Mars -- only water effects in volcanic rock.

Greg

Michael Bloxham · 2004-04-28 18:34:35

Err, I don't think the 'blueberries' are really blue, either. Grey hematite.

RobS · 2004-04-28 23:05:23

"Blueberries" were found by Opportunity only, not by Spirit.

This is a VERY interesting and useful summary of how the two rovers have advanced our knowledge of Mars:

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mars-wat … ready.html

-- RobS

Shaun Barrett · 2004-04-29 07:23:43

Yes, thanks Rob. I almost posted a link to this site myself but you beat me to it.
It doesn't look like good news for the Wet Mars brigade, me included. It's mainly that damned olivine which has thrown a spanner in the works!
And all that H2SO4 they're talking about - if it's as ubiquitous and as concentrated as they suggest, will it pose a danger to materials we send there? I'm talking about polymer greenhouses, building foundations, astronauts' boots and gloves, etc.
If we begin terraforming and produce just a little water to start with, that water will be very corrosive I should think - at least until we release much larger amounts of water to dilute the acid.
???

[Unless there's more to it than meets the eye and the conclusions in the link are all premature.]

cassioli · 2004-04-29 08:32:34

Luca, I must have missed something big time; but, I don't remember seeing that Spirit sighted any "blueberries" on her side of Mars -- only water effects in volcanic rock.

Err,I don't think the 'blueberries' are really blue, either. Grey hematite

"Blueberries" were found by Opportunity only, not by Spirit.

I was thinking to these images:
(http://www.keithlaney.com/SCI/B3.jpg]zoom)

(http://www.keithlaney.com/SCI/S32.jpg]zoom)

Anyway, I put the "bluberries everywhere" into "unofficial discoveries", due to lack of evidence about their same origin.
It looks, to me, that Bonneville Crater is filled with bluberries, and that they also appear in several Spirit images; but I don't know anything abouth their chemistry, as I told.
I also remember of Spirit microscopic imagery of bluberries inside a trench, but I can't find the image now.

Anyway, can anybody fill my gaps about Spirit and Opportunity chemical/geological discoveries?
Thanks in advance.

Luca

(I have some problems whit multiple-quoting :rant: , hope you understand this message... )

Adrian · 2004-04-29 09:39:41

I have to say that I'm not very impressed by the number of people who come to these forums asking for help with their school papers, especially when the questions are as simple as this one. It would be trivial to visit NASA's Mars Rover website, scan through the press releases and look through the bullet points. What's so difficult about that? Kids today, tsk

REB · 2004-04-29 09:57:46

Adrian, I hope kids and teachers are that interested in Mars, and the rest of the Solar System, that they would post here.

Kids do have it easy when it comes to reports. I wish the Internet had been around when I did school reports, including college reports. We actually had to go(get out of the house) to libraries(Buildings with books- sort of like search engines) and look up books (big things made of paper with information and pictures- sort of like web pages).

And we had to type them on these horrible machines called typewriters(looks like a keyboard merged with a printer). There was no such thing as Word. If you messed up and you were lucky, you could correct it with correction tape or whiteout. But don’t use whiteout while the paper is on the typewriter, or the teacher will have a fit. Then you had to line up the paper in the typewriter to correct the error.

I wouldn’t go back for anything. Give me Word and a Printer.

cassioli · 2004-04-29 10:51:43

I have to say that I'm not very impressed by the number of people who come to these forums asking for help with their school papers, especially when the questions are as simple as this one. It would be trivial to visit NASA's Mars Rover website, scan through the press releases and look through the bullet points. What's so difficult about that? Kids today, tsk

Are you kidding?!? They should read ALL of 200 press release!!! (111+89 Sols).

Not all people like wasting their time following Mars' happenings all the day... just like we do!

Luca

cassioli · 2004-04-29 10:54:10

Adrian, I hope kids and teachers are that interested in Mars, and the rest of the Solar System, that they would post here.
Kids do have it easy when it comes to reports. I wish the Internet had been around when I did school reports, including college reports. We actually had to go(get out of the house) to libraries(Buildings with books- sort of like search engines) and look up books (big things made of paper with information and pictures- sort of like web pages).
And we had to type them on these horrible machines called typewriters(looks like a keyboard merged with a printer). There was no such thing as Word. If you messed up and you were lucky, you could correct it with correction tape or whiteout. But don?t use whiteout while the paper is on the typewriter, or the teacher will have a fit. Then you had to line up the paper in the typewriter to correct the error.
I wouldn?t go back for anything. Give me Word and a Printer.

What a fascinating time it was... (Quite hard, but fascinating amyway... )

Luca

Stu · 2004-04-29 12:00:41

Or, looking at it another way...

It's very flattering that kids (or whoever) come here and ask our advice. I mean, pt yourself in their place. You've probably been set an assignment about Mars, panicked wondering "Where the **** am I going to find THAT information?"... turned to the web... Googled "Mars"... found 68 gazillion Mars-related websites... panicked again... dived in and started surfing site after site without finding what you were looking for...

Then you found New Mars, and breathed a sigh of relief, realising that you'd found a place where people not only discuss Mars and its exploration sensibly but passionately, debate the issues open-mindedly but logically, *and* welcome newcomers too! It's only natural that you'd ask people here for help and advice.

I think it's flattering actually. This is what we all want, isn't it? To "spread the word" and influence people? Who better to influence than kids? You never know, one of the Help Me!s posting here might end up being the first person to set foot on Mars... :;):

GJG · 2004-04-29 15:22:32

I am a newbie in this forum (a 60+ y/o "kid") and was a little surprised (rankled) by "Super Administrator" Adrian's sharp response (flame) to a new visitor's query (of whatever age or motivation). If one doesn't consider a post worthy of a response, why give one? I was, likewise, encouraged by Luca's and Stuart's pertinent comments.

I have already learned a lot by simply reading the posts here -- RobS, thanks for the link, this was all new info for me.

Greg

Adrian · 2004-04-29 16:27:15

I wouldn't call it a flame, although I suppose it was a bit sharp. I'm not going to stop people from asking questions for their homework in these forums, and I don't want to discourage people from answering them if they want to. These are simply my personal views.

However, I do feel that there is a difference between asking a simple question like 'Can you tell me what science the rovers have produced?' and it being for a school paper. The difference is that you are supposed to research school papers largely independently, unless there's a good reason not to. Perhaps reading every press release is over the top, but there have been good stories about the rovers' discoveries on all sorts of news websites like the BBC, CNN, SpaceDaily, Scientific American and New Scientist. In the top 20 results for a Google search on 'Mars Rovers' are links to a BBC News story about Opportunity sitting on an ancient beach and Space.com's comprehensive Mars Rover portal. It really isn't *that* difficult, and if you're proficient enough to register on these forums and post a question (a feat that challenges not a few), you are certainly proficient enough to do a Google search. How do you think people find these forums, after all?

Now, if the question was a bit more difficult or the poster had made it a bit more interesting, then fine, I wouldn't be bothered. As it is, no, I'm not impressed.

Don't get me wrong, I am flattered that people consider New Mars to be a good resource of information about Mars. At the same time, homework is not just about asking someone to get you information on a topic, it's about learning how to research independently and evaluate sources. I wouldn't be happy as a teacher if I found out that someone had 'written' a paper by merely asking about it on a forum and doing little more than cut-and-pasting the replies (which in this thread are more than good enough for a school paper). It reminds me of people emailing a literary mailing list I belong to saying 'I need to write a paper about x book for next week, please tell me what the key conflicts between the characters are.'

Edit: I just realised that many people may not have seen that the question is for an astronomy paper - look to the title of his post, 'Results of Spirit and Opportunity, a quick question for my astronomy paper'.

Edited By Adrian on 1083277906

GJG · 2004-04-29 17:49:54

Adrian -- my apologies. I let my emotions get loose on my keyboard.

Greg

atitarev · 2004-04-29 20:11:30

I wonder if the rovers discovered any evidence of nitrogen in the soil. I couldn't find any information on that. That would be important for the future missions, colonizers, terraformers, wouldn't it?

Julius Caeser · 2004-04-29 23:22:50

No comment regarding TES results from Spirit rover indicating possible make up of Columbia hills as yet!Any comments?? ???

cassioli · 2004-04-30 01:14:51

I wouldn't call it a flame, although I suppose it was a bit sharp. I'm not going to stop people from asking questions for their homework in these forums, and I don't want to discourage people from answering them if they want to. These are simply my personal views.
However, I do feel that there is a difference between asking a simple question like 'Can you tell me what science the rovers have produced?' and it being for a school paper. The difference is that you are supposed to research school papers largely independently, unless there's a good reason not to. Perhaps reading every press release is over the top, but there have been good stories about the rovers' discoveries on all sorts of news websites like the BBC, CNN, SpaceDaily, Scientific American and New Scientist. I

I think the WORST place to find scientific info in are mass-media! (Here in Italy, no news about rovers since a couple of months...). Especially because those "news" are always... old, and their writers suppose you already read all of their previous article since rovers arrived on Mars.

...but I think we should stop with this discussion, we are going a lot off-topic: CAN ANYBODY FILL MY CHEMICAL/GEOLOGICAL GAP ABOUT ROVERS' DISCOVERIES, PLEASE, I repaeat?

Luca

Stu · 2004-04-30 02:45:12

I am a newbie in this forum (a 60+ y/o "kid") and was a little surprised (rankled) by "Super Administrator" Adrian's sharp response (flame)

I can assure you that was definitely *not* a flame. There's no way Adrian would flame anyone. Adrian is justifiably proud of setting-up and maintaining the amazing achievement and resource that is New Mars, and we're all lucky to just be a part of it. I know that, personally, I'd be lost without it now, and would get only a hundredth as much enjoyment out of all the Mars exploration going on right now.

And I have a sneaking suspicion that the best is yet to come, once we get to look down into Endurance, and up at the Columbia Hills. It'll certainly make a change from pictures of that *&^!!!$*&* sundial!!!!! (I know, I know, scientifically important, calibration etc... zzzzzz.... every time I see one, I just think "That could be another pic of a rock, outcrop or hill!!", that's all! :;): )

Shaun Barrett · 2004-04-30 07:14:15

Luca, if you haven't done so already, go back to RobS's post on April 29th and read the site he gave a link to. It's a fairly comprehensive account of the chemistry on Mars, as it is understood at this particular moment. (Thanks again, Rob! :up: )
[P.S. Luca, I don't necessarily agree with all of the conclusions reached in Rob's link - especially the 'bone dry Mars for the last 3.7 billion years bit !!!! :down: I can't possibly go along with that and I suspect we still have a very great deal to learn about our favourite planet (outside of Earth, of course! ).]

Hi Greg!
A very warm welcome to New Mars. 60+ y/o kid, huh? ... All the better; somebody with a bit of perspective on life!

At first I thought Adrian's response to the astronomy assignment question seemed a little harsh and out of character but his explanation does indeed make a lot of sense. I believe in kids being required to show a little initiative with their school work. We ought not to be making life too easy for them because it'll do 'em no good in the long run to be spoon fed.

Stu:-

It'll certainly make a change from pictures of that *&^!!!$*&* sundial!!!!!

:laugh: Ha-ha !!
I agree entirely with your sentiments and I love your sense of humour. More power to you, sir!

Stephen · 2005-01-10 20:00:20

Kids do have it easy when it comes to reports. I wish the Internet had been around when I did school reports, including college reports. We actually had to go(get out of the house) to libraries(Buildings with books- sort of like search engines) and look up books (big things made of paper with information and pictures- sort of like web pages).

The Internet is a mixed blessing. Simply because somebody has put up a webpage on a particular topic does not necessarily mean that the information there is correct, much less up-to-date.

In fact in one respect the Internet is becoming a little too convenient. There seems to be a growing tendency among some students to feel they do not need to write anything original of their own at all. All they need do is get onto the Internet, find a paper somebody else has written on the topic their teacher has asked them to write on, then put their own name to it and hand it in as their own work.

There has, for example, recently been a major scandal about this at the University of Newcastle in Australia involving more than a dozen post-graduate students attending an overseas campus handing in assignments largely taken from other sources yet presented by them as their own original work. See, for example, http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/09/ … =true]this link. (The scandal, BTW, is no longer that the students committed plagarism. It is that after a diligent lecturer found them out and gave the lot of them a mark of zero pressure was brought to bear on his superiors to overrule him and give them passes instead. Those superiors are now under investigation.)

RobS · 2005-01-10 20:49:13

Teachers need to grade their papers with Google open. I have already flunked one student for turning in a paper lifted from the web. His mistake: lifting a paper about the Taliban from the web and failing to change the present tense verbs about them to past tense!

There are also several sites profs can use to find papers on the web.

-- RobS

Ian Flint · 2005-01-10 21:47:57

Yet another 'tsk' for mike. He never came back to thank anyone, or to defend his character either.

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Re: Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

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Re: Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

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Re: Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

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Re: Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

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Re: Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

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Re: Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

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Re: Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

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Re: Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

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Re: Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

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Re: Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

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Re: Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

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Re: Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

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Re: Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

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Re: Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

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Re: Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper

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