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I think the topic was about discussing an advanced interplanetary space craft for Earth/Mars, Earth/Lunar, Lunar/Mars missions. What type of crew accomodations & artificial gavity, power & life support, propulsion & navagation, ect. Ect.
The topic is: International Solar Cruiser Program - "EARTH-1"
The web link made reference to was:
http://www.international-space-agency.n … /iscp.html
I submit to Mr. Dobson to please return, as there are those of us that would like to hear what you have to say!
To the message board moderators, I am requesting that any persons not making constructive comments or input into this thread be banned from this message board, or following the specific rules for participation out lined below!
Rule #1: No personal attacks or slander against anyone is wanted in this thread. If you don't support this topic start your own thread and topic. No past events events, ie: the anti-dobson war, are to metioned or discussed here, no exceptions!
Rule #2: If you do not want to make a positive or constructive input regarding this topic or those who choose too, go start your own thread.
Rule #3: Topic Specific Postulations only, as in: what if?, or how will that work?, or what about this? Are the only way others and their ideas will be addresses in this thread!
Rule #4: *No references to spelling, grammer, or I heard about you or your organization over here, or hey someone told me about so and so, *No Gossip Here! Only topic related issues only!
Rule #5: This thread which is being started by me, for the specific topic of International Solar Cruiser Program - "EARTH-1", and nothing else.
Rule #6: User clark is not allowed to post in this thread, as this persons influence and actions are not wanted, and cause a disturbance. This person has the whole New Mars message board to romp around in, but not here!
Rule #7: If Mr. Dobson does return to contribute to this thread, which I hope he does, he is the CEO of a Corporation and deserves to be addressed as Mr. Dobson. Or at least with some respect. If you don't like what he has to say, and can not follow the simple rules above, than don't come or contribute to this thread, go start your own thread, its that simple.
The rules for participation in this thread are well established, and those breaking them have been forwarned, and have no excuse for breaking them! It will be a clear call for the moderators to ban any person who breaks these rules.
So, lets try this again! And hopefully this time we get it right!
Eric
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Apollo! Why did we stop! Dammed if I know?
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I've been really patient here, Eric. I'm not going to lock this thread (but I suspect Adrian might if this crap continues), but I really should note the irony in your rules (that they are self conflicting, and that you have essentially broken and invalidated your own rules).
But I digress. By all means, discuss EARTH-1 here.
Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
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The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.
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What about: cost estimates, timeline, funding structure, relation to current space-programs.
I think these topics need *a lot* more discussion for potentially interested parties before you can even think about building stuff...
To be honest, and risking to sound too negative, i'm not too convinced, so far... I spent quite some time on the website, and was sadly underwhelmed... For an organisation that claims to have bene working on these plans for years, there is simply *no* info of interest at all.
The pictures are the most elaborate part of the site, and even those are very generic. I'm less interested in the bio of the members than in numbers about the plan. There are none. And the 'under construction' is not an alibi, sorry. No papers online, for starters to get me interested.
If i compare this to, say, a single man's plan like RobS his Mars-24, wich lacks pictures, but is very detailed, i have the feeling posting said pictures is putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.
It's a big vision, but there is virtually no info on the site...
Maybe i'm just looking for the wrong info, and i should see ISA more as a ADVOCATING society? That would make more sense, rallying (other) organisations towards cooperation. But then again, info is too scarce to know...
Politicians want to see numbers, engineers too (different numbers, heh) Even if wildly inaccurate, you have to begin somewhere, to give people an idea what they're dealing with.
I think a lot of critique lies in he fact these are literally big plans, so potentially *very* expensive, in a day and age where the once most powerful spacepowers are struggling mighty hard to get their stuff launched, let alone expand their capabilities.
This all sounds very negative, i know, but manned spaceflight is not a walk in the park, sadly, and big projects like these would have a tremendeous impact on industry (jobs, etc) international legislation, technology-sharing...
I think these issues need at least as much attention as the bare technological requirements...
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Looks like you need a web designer...
The MiniTruth passed its first act #001, comname: PATRIOT ACT on October 26, 2001.
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eric: Re.
The rules for participation in this thread are well established, and those breaking them have been forwarned, and have no excuse for breaking them! It will be a clear call for the moderators to ban any person who breaks these rules. So, lets try this again! And hopefully this time we get it right!
That sounds an awful lot like a takeover ultimatum, and I resent your ridiculous, posturing, threatening tone towards the Mars Society I venerate. As for your "well established rules," you neglected the one about "respect" needing to be earned. As for "your" thread: my experience has been that once you start one it takes on a life of it's own. What did you expect? Your rules about excluding anyone by name, and giving a CEO (imagine, a CEO in this day and age!) special treatment, are either laughable--or scary if followed. Come to think of it, there happen to be rules for grammer and spelling for use by anyone aspiring to advance in this life.
Well, now I leave you to the wolves (you certainly asked for it with your rules) to get back to more Mars-related postings.
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Rule #6, Clark's Rule. :laugh:
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Okay, these seems to be the new place to post stuff regarding ISC (“Earth-1”). From what I can tell the ISC seems mostly concept. I the other related thread I mentioned combining the goals of the ISC with an ISS. This would allow Earth-1 to be something that can grow over time, like a city.
Unfortunately, I can’t find all of GCNRevenger replies to this post. What was it, about a 5 story Transhab could be launched in one shot and be large enough for early colonization efforts? I like the idea of starting with at least two such modules because the initial ship/station would have better symmetry. However, incase during construction the mass of the ship isn’t distributed evenly it would be nice to be able to direct the thrust of the main engines so that the line of force could go through the center of mass in spite of any asymmetries.
Oh of course each main Trashab style module would be attached to a docking/(back bone type modal). All models would have places where trusses and cables could later be attached to make the station more rigid and better able to withstand higher thrust maneuvers. Each Tranhab type modual would have a docking spot on the top and the bottom. To increase the circumferences around the axis a docking modual could be attached to the bottom of the transhab module. As the station gets very large the truss would form circles around the principle axis.
Dig into the [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/2006/12/political-grab-bag.html]political grab bag[/url] at [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/]Child Civilization[/url]
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Closer to 8 stories tall, a single big one with a large aluminum docking/logistics/reboost module brought up on a second flight. Putting only one docking port on the megatranshab will give you enough room for an additional deck or two with SDV launch, and the internal structure is the part that should be stiff for maneuvers, putting the truss on the outside would place alot of strain on the "balloon" part; the backbone is on the inside.
Early Mars colonization ship...
Square truss, with 4 mega transhabs around the middle, each linked to eachother through hatches on the side. All the endports facing the same direction, probably tward the engine. Four half-length aluminum modules attached to the endports, two of which have single docking ports and logistics storage plus double as crew stormcellars. One would be the command module where the ship is controlled, and the final one would be an airlock module, plus extra storage. No aerobraking shield will be included, and no artifical gravity would be nessesarry, since the vehicle would be powerd by a ~5000sec ISP GCNR or VCR/VASIMR engine. Refueling and personell transfer would be via DC-X, X-30, or Shuttle-LSA vehicle on the Earth leg and a DC-X style RLV on the Mars end.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]
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I suppose this is where the time line comes in because gas core nuclear rockets don’t exist yet. But maybe at the beginning of the project the designers should assume one will be developed by the end of the project.
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I don't forsee it being practical to make a ship of reasonable volume and speed for colonization missions until something better than Nerva-NTR comes along with at least some thrust. The fuel requirements for an NTR vehicle are too great, resulting in a huge fuel bill per-flight and long transit times.
[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]
[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]
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Long transit times may not be so bad if the crew travels in comfort. What percentage of the mass from LEO to mars would we obtain with, nuclear electric, nuclear thermal or NERVA. What are the corresponding travel times.
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Long transit times may not be so bad if the crew travels in comfort
Comfort has never really been that high on the agenda for most early explorers - just think back to the first long distance exploration of Earth by sailing ships, not much comfort for anyone (apart from the captain I suppose). I for one would put up with a certain amount of discomfort if it meant I was to stand upon Mars (I don't however want any of those horrid illnesses that went hand in hand with the early sailing ship explorers!)
How much comfort do we actually need anyway? A few months worth of cramped living quarters is not too much to ask if the end result is standing upon Mars.
Graeme
There was a young lady named Bright.
Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day
in a relative way
And returned on the previous night.
--Arthur Buller--
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For six moths the need for comfort is debatable. But the longer period of time people spend in space the more important the accommodations.
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I endorse the use of inflatable enclosure(s) for the trip, within which any number of structures can be erected for purposes of comfort (isolation cubicles) and health (sleeping centrifuge) and sports (weightless flight) and visual simulation/entertainment (widescreen projection) and. . . .
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I endorse the use of inflatable enclosure(s) for the trip, within which any number of structures can be erected for purposes of comfort (isolation cubicles) and health (sleeping centrifuge) and sports (weightless flight) and visual simulation/entertainment (widescreen projection) and. . . .
.... a small bar, a few computers for off duty use (hell the internet via a tiny transmitter thousands upon thousands of miles away would still be quicker than my connection!) Multi-purpose rooms that you can alter as you enter would be good (no not the holodeck of star trek), but somewhere you can read a book away from your quarters/other crew, listen to music, send a video home - for long duration journies privacy will be as much an issue as comfort for many.
Graeme
There was a young lady named Bright.
Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day
in a relative way
And returned on the previous night.
--Arthur Buller--
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What if you put a ring between two trampolines? Call the sport ring diving?
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