Pluto-Kuiper Belt Mission urgency

Preston · 2002-07-13 15:13:10

The Pluto-Kuiper Belt mission is always described as urgent because the atmosphere of Pluto will freeze out in a few decades. This begs the question, do scientists really need information on the very tenuous atmosphere, which I argue is not an important, primary characteristic of the planet (as opposed to getting a surface map, examining the topology, geology, and surface composition)?

Maybe we can send out an orbiter with NTR brakes in the future. Or, since the electrical systems must be nuclear powered also, a small reactor could power both an NEP and the electronics. Finally, if they output enough power(which I doubt), one could power an ion thruster with RTGs, which would be the easiest solution.

Phobos · 2002-07-13 17:46:01

I'm a big supporter of the Pluto Express probe and I think it deserves to get the funding it needs. Comparatively speaking, the probe is very cheap, hell it's only about twice as expensive as that wonderful pen made to write memos in space. And adding things like experimental nuclear engines to the probe will likely drive up the cost of the mission by a good factor if it even happens at all. Besides Mars, Pluto has caught my imagination more than any other planet. Sometime in the distant future it would probably make a good place to colonize being that it likely has frozen water and has Charon very close by which is good for a variety of reasons. Not that those are good arguments for sending the probe, but I think it would be better to send it before the atmosphere freezes out than to wait until later for what will likely be a more expensive mission anyway. I hope the project doesn't get axed so some stupid military project can take money out of its coffers.

Mark S · 2002-07-15 07:59:09

The debate on Capitol Hill and within NASA is whether a nuclear-ion probe or a conventional one will be sent to Pluto. Although the conventional one would be available for flight by 2004, one with an Ion engine would be able to speed continuously toward Pluto with no gravity slingshot, and it could enter Pluto's orbit instead of making a brief flyby.

The scientific community supports the conventional probe while NASA's administration wants the ion-propelled one. The Bush administration has, unfortunately, pushed to kill the conventional probe, and a small amount of funding from Congress has kept the effort on life support. I think that it is in the best interests of science to send BOTH probes, and to get the conventional one there as soon as possible.

Palomar · 2002-07-16 11:41:26

Besides Mars, Pluto has caught my imagination more than any other planet. Sometime in the distant future it would probably make a good place to colonize being that it likely has frozen water and has Charon very close by which is good for a variety of reasons.

*Yipes! ??? But Pluto is sooooo cold [brrrr!] and the sun is just a tiny disc in its sky.

Pluto has no atmosphere so far as we know, right? I'm wondering [and not just about Pluto] what makes atmospheres "stay put" on planets where they are found, and why some other planets have none. Can an atmosphere be created on a planet, such as Pluto or Mercury [or even our moon, a satellite] which has *none* whatsoever? Does gravity have anything to do with this?

--Cindy

Mark S · 2002-07-16 14:36:48

Gravity has a lot to do with what type of atmosphere a planet will have, if any. The RMS speed of the gas molecules in the planet's atmosphere must be lower than the escape velocity of the planet. Becuase Pluto has less gravity (and, as a result, a lower escape velocity,) its atmosphere would be thin to say the least. Of course, at Pluto's distance from the sun, the atmosphere solidifies as it moves toward aphelion.

Palomar · 2002-07-16 20:35:45

Gravity has a lot to do with what type of atmosphere a planet will have, if any. The RMS speed of the gas molecules in the planet's atmosphere must be lower than the escape velocity of the planet.

*Thank you for the answer What is "RMS speed"?

This brings to mind another question: What are the chances that our attempts to "thicken" the atmosphere of Mars will hold, that a denser atmosphere will develop and stay put?

--Cindy

Phobos · 2002-07-16 20:49:27

The scientific community supports the conventional probe while NASA's administration wants the ion-propelled one. The Bush administration has, unfortunately, pushed to kill the conventional probe, and a small amount of funding from Congress has kept the effort on life support. I think that it is in the best interests of science to send BOTH probes, and to get the conventional one there as soon as possible.

I like your thinking. I think the conventional probe should definately be sent to Pluto in any case considering that NASA has a penchant for suddenly scrapping experimental projects. It seems doubtful that the government will suddenly pay what will likely be a higher price for the nuke propelled probe if they won't pay for the conventional mission. But if they'll pay for both missions, hell, I'm for it.

*Yipes! But Pluto is sooooo cold [brrrr!] and the sun is just a tiny disc in its sky.
Pluto has no atmosphere so far as we know, right? I'm wondering [and not just about Pluto] what makes atmospheres "stay put" on planets where they are found, and why some other planets have none. Can an atmosphere be created on a planet, such as Pluto or Mercury [or even our moon, a satellite] which has *none* whatsoever? Does gravity have anything to do with this?

Pluto has a nitrogen and methane atmosphere. Some astronomers view Pluto as being a giant comet rather than a planet. I guess you could think of that atmosphere as being like the faint beginning of a tail as it whizzes around the sun. Anyways, if I could choose two places in the Solar System to visit, it would be Mars and Pluto. There's just something about being out there on the edge that appeals to me.

Mark S · 2002-07-17 10:12:11

*Thank you for the answer What is "RMS speed"?

RMS speed is our expression for the velocity of gas particles as they move around in their chaotic way. According to Dr. Zubrin, Mars has sufficient gravity to support an earthlike atmosphere, so there's no need to worry about that aspect of terraforming.

Palomar · 2002-07-17 10:38:28

Phobos: "Some astronomers view Pluto as being a giant comet rather than a planet. I guess you could think of that atmosphere as being like the faint beginning of a tail as it whizzes around the sun."

*Cool. I wasn't aware of this.

Phobos: "Anyways, if I could choose two places in the Solar System to visit, it would be Mars and Pluto. There's just something about being out there on the edge that appeals to me."

*I still have that image of people living in underground colonies on Mercury in my mind's eye, thanks to Clarke's _Rendezvous with Rama_ novel. For some reason, that captured my imagination, even though [as I stated before] I always think of human settlements in the solar system as moving outward and away from the Sun. I can imagine an observation window built on top of Mercury's crust, heavily shielded by filters of course -- and being able to view the Sun from that close range; just standing there, watching the plumes of gargantuan solar flares...among other things. What a sight that would be!

--Cindy

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#1 2002-07-13 15:13:10

Re: Pluto-Kuiper Belt Mission urgency

#2 2002-07-13 17:46:01

Re: Pluto-Kuiper Belt Mission urgency

#3 2002-07-15 07:59:09

Re: Pluto-Kuiper Belt Mission urgency

#4 2002-07-16 11:41:26

Re: Pluto-Kuiper Belt Mission urgency

#5 2002-07-16 14:36:48

Re: Pluto-Kuiper Belt Mission urgency

#6 2002-07-16 20:35:45

Re: Pluto-Kuiper Belt Mission urgency

#7 2002-07-16 20:49:27

Re: Pluto-Kuiper Belt Mission urgency

#8 2002-07-17 10:12:11

Re: Pluto-Kuiper Belt Mission urgency

#9 2002-07-17 10:38:28

Re: Pluto-Kuiper Belt Mission urgency

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