Active Springs & Glacier- Nilosyrtis Mensae, Ma - Active Springs and glaciers on Mars

REB · 2004-04-15 13:01:29

The Nilosyrtis Mensae area of Mars shows many signs of water, both in the past and possibly now. There might be active springs and glaciers in this area.

The Nilosyrtis Mensae area of Mars has been a great interest of study for me for the last 5 years when I came across this picture;

[http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04 … 304128.jpg]http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04 … 304128.jpg
(Taken from here
[http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04 … 4128.html)]http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04 … 4128.html)

Look about midway down the picture and you will see what look like channels coming out of several craters.

To the south is some high lands. Any ground water would flow down into these lowlands. If such groundwater existed, it could come up in springs, where craters have punctured the surface.

Is the white material in the craters light dust, or ice?

Those channels are very puzzling.

You can also barley make out one of these channels coming out of the large crater about halfway down this picture;
[http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04 … 402905.jpg]http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04 … 402905.jpg
(Taken from here
[http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04 … 2905.html)]http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04 … 2905.html)

Shortly after I made this discovery, I informed Malin Space Science Systems. I requested that they study this area some more and was surprised to see them do this;

[http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e07_e12/mc13.html]http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e07_e12/mc13.html
and here
[http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/m19_m23/mc13.html]http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/m19_m23/mc13.html

Other evidence of Water

If you look toward the bottom of this picture;
[http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e07_e12 … 004556.jpg]http://www.msss.com/moc_gal....556.jpg
(Taken from here
[http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e07_e12 … 4556.html)]http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e07_e12 … 4556.html)

You’ll notice what looks like a layered shoreline. Many pictures from this area show a layered like shoreline.

This one has a nice peninsula and possible some ice filled craters.
[http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e19_r02 … 201147.jpg]http://www.msss.com/moc_gal....147.jpg
(taken from here
[http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e19_r02 … 1147.html)]http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e19_r02 … 1147.html)

Glaciers on Mars?

Directly to the north is an area that resembles glacier activity and maybe even active glaciers

In the wide area photo, look at the lower left hand corner, and you will see two bowl like features;
[http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e13_e18 … 01609.html]http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e13_e18 … 01609.html

On Earth, such features are scoop out by glacier (Skiers love them. I think they are called Circs).

Many pictures of this area show what look like lateral moraines in a flowing glacier.
[http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04 … 245006.jpg]http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04 … 245006.jpg
and at the bottom of this one;
[http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04 … 306958.jpg]http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04 … 306958.jpg
(Taken from here
[http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04 … 06958.html]http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04 … 06958.html

REB · 2004-04-15 13:18:23

How would spring water react when exposed to Mars current environment?

It depends somewhat on the area of Mars we are talking about. In the Hellas Basin, on a warm summer day, water could exist for a long time.

But for most of Mars, here is what I think would happen.

Some of it would boil and evaporate in the thin dry Mars air and some would freeze(and evaporate later). But if the water source was large enough for the spring to stay active awhile, it would overfill the spring and flow, cutting channels as it goes. A layer of ice would form over the channel, slowing the evaporation of the water.

Once the water source was deplenished, the water would stop flowing ice covering the channel would evaporate, leaving dry channels.

atomoid · 2004-04-15 13:55:06

i guess it all depends upon whether or not the subsurface temperatures and mineral content of the water are high enough to allow it to exist in liquid form...
...but during the regular climate shifts due to procession, i'd expect the water to flow to the surface and persist for a while, insulated by a cover of ice.
...however, if the ground water supply isnt being replenished in some way, then over the millions of years the water table would slowly drop lower and lower as it slowly leaks to the surface through these episodes and collects at the poles or leaks off to space, leaving the top of the water table at a point below the reach of these warming episodes...

rstones8 · 2004-04-20 14:56:03

...collects at the poles or leaks off to space...

I have been wondering about this...is it possible for water or moisture, or anything for that matter, to just leave the planet off into space? Excluding ejecta from asteroid impacts and things like that, it seems like Mars' gravity and atmosphere would hold everything in.

I was having a debate with a friend a few days ago about this, and I claimed that will all the evidence of past water on Mars, it must still be there somewhere, in the polar caps and underground. He said, "Well maybe it went out into space," but I didnt think this was possible. Is it?

REB · 2004-04-21 06:04:54

I have read more than one science article (I think one was in Discover Magazine) that the Earth looses water in space because the sunlight will break down water into oxygen and hydrogen. However the rate loss is compensated by comets so that there is no net loss.

Considering this, and the possibility comets may have deposited water ice at the Moons poles, and Mercury’s poles, then Mars probably get replenished with water from comets.

Too bad that comet that hit Jupiter a few years ago didn’t hit Mars.

Palomar · 2004-04-21 12:42:13

Too bad that comet that hit Jupiter a few years ago didn’t hit Mars.

*You're referring to Shoemaker-Levy, roughly 10 years ago now? That was a rather sizeable comet, IIRC (and in pieces...a string of smaller comets...by the time it dive-bombed Jupiter). Not sure how much of an impact the same would have had on Mars.

Actually, we should be grateful for Jupiter's mighty gravitational pull. It keeps the inner Solar System safer (including...*Earth*). I wonder how many impact catastrophes on Earth -have- been avoided, thanks to Jove. Mars' loss in that regard might be our gain. You never know.

Don't mean to get off-topic, but I just wanted to comment.

--Cindy

Byron · 2004-04-21 13:13:25

Too bad that comet that hit Jupiter a few years ago didn’t hit Mars.
*You're referring to Shoemaker-Levy, roughly 10 years ago now? That was a rather sizeable comet, IIRC (and in pieces...a string of smaller comets...by the time it dive-bombed Jupiter). Not sure how much of an impact the same would have had on Mars.
Actually, we should be grateful for Jupiter's mighty gravitational pull. It keeps the inner Solar System safer (including...*Earth*). I wonder how many impact catastrophes on Earth -have- been avoided, thanks to Jove. Mars' loss in that regard might be our gain. You never know.
Don't mean to get off-topic, but I just wanted to comment.
--Cindy

You're 100% correct about Jupiter playing "protector" for the inner Solar System...if it weren't for Jupiter and the other gas giants, it's highly doubtful that life could have ever evolved past the single-cell stage here on Earth, due to the large number of planet-sterilizing impacts that would likely occur if it wasn't for those big gravity hogs..lol.

Yes, Shoemaker-Levy hit Jupiter 10 years ago this July, iirc...we were lucky indeed (as a human race) to have been able to witness something of that magnitude in the modern era. It was a pretty exciting time...can't believe it's been 10 years already (shakes head).

It'd sure be cool to have one of those babies hit Mars though, as that would surely kick-start the terraforming of Mars...and we'd have little choice but to finish the job someday...lol...

B

REB · 2004-04-21 13:48:58

That was it- Shoemaker-Levy. Has it been 10 years? Wow! Time flies. I saw the dark spots on Jupiter with my little scope.

If it had hit Mars, I think it would have increased the air pressure. It would have also caused some localized floods. I don’t know how long the water would have stayed liquid, but it would have been great to study it.

Could it have caused rain for a short time around the point of impact?

Byron · 2004-04-21 14:05:14

That was it- Shoemaker-Levy. Has it been 10 years? Wow! Time flies. I saw the dark spots on Jupiter with my little scope.
If it had hit Mars, I think it would have increased the air pressure. It would have also caused some localized floods. I don’t know how long the water would have stayed liquid, but it would have been great to study it.
Could it have caused rain for a short time around the point of impact?

Yeah, tell me about it...lol. No wonder why I'm feeling so ancient these days...lol. So you were able to pick out the black dots, huh? I tried looking for them after the initial impact, but my trusty Astroscan just didn't quite have the light-gathering power to pick them out...at least I tried. (-sigh-)

Yeah, as big as that thing was (assuming that it stayed together in one piece), it would have very likely caused rain all over Mars, since it would have penetrated deep into the Martian crust and heated large areas of the planet to well above freezing, and it probably would have burst open a few aquifers, melted portions of the ice caps, etc. For a short time, at least, Mars would have had liquid water flowing across the surface, not to mention greatly increased air pressure. Now, that would have been a sight to see...

Oh well, maybe we'll get "lucky" next time a comet tries to slip past Jove the Protector...lol.

B

Shaun Barrett · 2004-04-23 18:36:08

Byron:-

Oh well, maybe we'll get "lucky" next time a comet tries to slip past Jove the Protector...lol.

Yeah, as long as it doesn't manage to slip past Jove and Mars ... the next target in that shooting gallery is a place dear to my heart!!

REB · 2004-09-17 06:51:06

http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/m07_m12 … .jpg]Check out the channel like features about 2/3 down this picture.

I don't see any other such features anywhere else in the area. This is also in the Nilosyrtis Mensae area.

Shaun Barrett · 2004-09-17 08:09:25

Yeah, REB.
The whole place looks weird. I'm not at all sure what I'm looking at in that picture.
???

They should get some higher resolution images of the area - maybe when the lighting conditions are better too.

REB · 2004-09-17 09:09:25

I would like to see a couple of MERs in that region. It is a very interesting region with a lot of weird formations.

atomoid · 2004-09-17 21:03:59

those two "gullies" one of them almost looks like its forked near the bottom, but if you look close its not connected, im thinking these arent gullies carved by geyser or springs, since they seem to be too high on the ridge, not water table coudl exist that high. maybe these are just faults due to subsidence of the soil here. but who knows why just in this one spot? or perhaps most likely they are gullies like the ones in the craters weve seen so far, formed underneath an insulating icepack by melting snow that has long since dwindled away. the "forked" one might reveal a place where the water tunneled under the ground and reemerged. mysterious...

oh how i wish our species would stop throwing so much money away at fruitless wars and the paranoia-industrial complex, and just pass a tiny fraction of that to take space exploration more seriously, we could send a dozen or more MER clones at every launch window to new and challenging hold-your-breath-and-hope-we-make-it kinds of places rather than the flat plains were relegated to, just for the slim chance of actually getting one though to check out some very good stuff close up, i bet we'd make it more often than not... okay ill step down from my soap box now

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#1 2004-04-15 13:01:29

Re: Active Springs & Glacier- Nilosyrtis Mensae, Ma - Active Springs and glaciers on Mars

#2 2004-04-15 13:18:23

Re: Active Springs & Glacier- Nilosyrtis Mensae, Ma - Active Springs and glaciers on Mars

#3 2004-04-15 13:55:06

Re: Active Springs & Glacier- Nilosyrtis Mensae, Ma - Active Springs and glaciers on Mars

#4 2004-04-20 14:56:03

Re: Active Springs & Glacier- Nilosyrtis Mensae, Ma - Active Springs and glaciers on Mars

#5 2004-04-21 06:04:54

Re: Active Springs & Glacier- Nilosyrtis Mensae, Ma - Active Springs and glaciers on Mars

#6 2004-04-21 12:42:13

Re: Active Springs & Glacier- Nilosyrtis Mensae, Ma - Active Springs and glaciers on Mars

#7 2004-04-21 13:13:25

Re: Active Springs & Glacier- Nilosyrtis Mensae, Ma - Active Springs and glaciers on Mars

#8 2004-04-21 13:48:58

Re: Active Springs & Glacier- Nilosyrtis Mensae, Ma - Active Springs and glaciers on Mars

#9 2004-04-21 14:05:14

Re: Active Springs & Glacier- Nilosyrtis Mensae, Ma - Active Springs and glaciers on Mars

#10 2004-04-23 18:36:08

Re: Active Springs & Glacier- Nilosyrtis Mensae, Ma - Active Springs and glaciers on Mars

#11 2004-09-17 06:51:06

Re: Active Springs & Glacier- Nilosyrtis Mensae, Ma - Active Springs and glaciers on Mars

#12 2004-09-17 08:09:25

Re: Active Springs & Glacier- Nilosyrtis Mensae, Ma - Active Springs and glaciers on Mars

#13 2004-09-17 09:09:25

Re: Active Springs & Glacier- Nilosyrtis Mensae, Ma - Active Springs and glaciers on Mars

#14 2004-09-17 21:03:59

Re: Active Springs & Glacier- Nilosyrtis Mensae, Ma - Active Springs and glaciers on Mars

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