What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

Cobra Commander · 2004-04-12 16:20:41

That effectively destroys my motivation for going to Mars.

Why must expansion into a new frontier be so controlled and rigid? Let it happen, it will work out. Why build in the problems we've developed on Earth?

I only hope the Colonists of Mars can do better with Their New Planet, than we Earthlings, have done on our Planet.

This is not a very optimistic statement, but it helps me to understand the rest of the post. "try not to f**k it up again" isn't exactly inspiring words of leadership.

rstones8 · 2004-04-14 20:10:02

Where have I seen this government structure beore? Oh yea...the U.S.! Mars is an entire planet, not just one nation, and to expect to treat it like another country on Earth is ridiculous. The politics of Mars will evolve, change, be fought over, and hopefully eventually develop into some sort of stability, but to try to lay a plan out flat for the way it will be, as good as your intentions are, may not be the best way of going about things. No matter how hard you try, you wil never be able to avoid the problems we have on Earth. They are a result of human nature, and will be present on Mars as well.

The Exploration and General Human Support Facilities and Bases should be under the Direct Control of the International Space Agency...

...Wow, isn't that convienient?

...as this Organization will have the most resources to bring to bare on the Mars Surface for Exploration & Colonization Activities.

...Oh will it now?

REB · 2004-04-15 13:44:06

In my story, "War Against Gravity" (I wrote it several years ago, when I was a bit younger) I set up the government like this. I thought this might be a way to set up a new multi-planet government.

Appendix 6

The Government Structure*

*As of the year 2295

The United Systems
Founded: March 15, 2295.
Capital Location: Earth’s Moon
Population:8,332,563,470

Each world, or nation, under the United Systems is independent. All systems disputes are settled through the United Systems. All Individual System Member(ISM) world disputes are settled through the individual systems central government. All World disputes are settled through the INS.

Chain of government:
United Systems
|
Star Systems
|
ISM World
|
World or Nation
|
Nation

Some moons are independent. Others fall in the jurisdiction of their planet.

All worlds and nations must follow the United Systems’ Constitution, and Bill of Rights.

Worlds under the United Systems

Roman Numerals are the Systems.
A star * represents the world of the System’s capital.
Capital letters represent Individual System Members(ISM).
Numbers are worlds under the ISM jurisdiction.

Note: Unpopulated worlds are not listed.
This list was compiled 2295. ISMs who joined the
US after 2295 are not listed.

(2295 Census) System or
Organization Human ISM Total /Year JoinedPopulation___
VI. Ross 128 US/2295 41,020
A. Ross128-1 Joint Human/Alphan(93) 38,970 39,290
1. Ross128-1c Ross/2293 320
B. *Ross128-3 Ross/2294 1,730 1,730
VII. Ross 154 US/2299 5,910
A. Ross154-2b Ross/2295 5,910 5,910

REB · 2004-04-15 13:48:41

I guess the whole list was too big to post. You can see an example, anyway.

The list coveres the Alpha Centauri Systems (All three stars)

The Solar System looks like this;

I. The Solar System US/2295 8,331,116,750
A.*Earth UNSA/2054 7,347,790,120 7,347,790,120
B. Mars UNSA/2177 98,281,290 98,366,210
   1. Phobos Mars/2231 73,540
   2. Deimos Mars/2271 11,380
C. Mercury UNSA/2248 2,322,760 2,322,760
D. Ganymede UNSA/2248 5,726,020 9,510,480
   1. Callisto Gany/2251 2,906,910
   2. Europa Gany/2253 824,210
   3. Io Gany/2253 16,290
   4. Thebe Gany/2261 23,270
   5. Himalia Gany/2264 4,620
   6. Lysithea Gany/2265 1,530
   7. Elara Gany/2279 6,940
   8. Leda Gany/2291 690
E. Ceres UNSA/2253 272,510 469,170
   1. Vesta Cere/2262 40,030
   2. Pallas Cere/2262 12,180
   3. Hygia Cere/2266 19,620
   4. Davida Cere/2271 2,570
   5. Interamnia Cere/2271 79,720
   6. Eunomia Cere/2271 7,140
   7. Sylvia Cere/2271 1,820
   8. Cybele Cere/2271 730
   9. Juno Cere/2277 23,780
   10. Bamberga Cere/2277 1,040
   11. Herculina Cere/2278 3,340
   12. Patientia Cere/2283 800
   13. Thalia Cere/2289 260
   14. Mathilde Cere/2295 3,630
F. Venus UNSA/2270 52,639,280 52,639,280
G. Moon UNSA/2271 811,839,880 811,839,880
H. Titan UNSA/2274 8,040,820 8,091,070
   1. Rhea Tita/2274 15,370
   2. Iapetus Tita/2275 3,000
   3. Dione Tita/2278 9,300
   4. Tethys Tita/2281 2,790
   5. Enceladus Tita/2286 11,040
   6. Mimas Tita/2287 6,270
   7. Hyperion Tita/2291 380
   8. Janus Tita/2295 1,410
   9. Pandora Tita/2295 690
I. Triton UNSA/2284 33,410 40,950
   1. Pluto Trit/2285 4,570
   2. Chiron Trit/2285 1,040
   3. Nereid Trit/2287 920
   4. Proteus Trit/2290 730
   5. Thalassa Trit/2293 280
J. Miranda UNSA/2288 16,830 46,830
   1. Oberon Mira/2288 7,660
   2. Umbriel Mira/2288 3,570
   3. Ariel Mira/2289 2,190
   4. Titania Mira/2290 14,920
   5. Cordelia Mira/2290 620
   6. Portia Mira/2293 190
   7. Cressida Mira/2294 850

Hazer · 2004-04-21 23:25:06

With regards to the government of Mars, I say let political and technological selection do the work. The government structure of any Mars colonies will have to respond to situations and dilemmas that no Terran governments will ever had to deal with.
So the governmental structure and laws of Mars will depend on a few things such as:

1) The ideals, traditions, and personal choices of the initial settlers of a colony.

2) Unique hardships/issues that the initials settlers must deal with.

3) The political heritage of the settlers

4) The wishes of the body sponsoring the settlers.

Predetermining a form for Martian governments to follow inhibits the ability of the governed to govern themselves.

eric_apollo_tech · 2004-04-23 19:20:18

Hazer your right!

But please tell me for the record who is going to get them there?

Who is going to pay the bills?

Who is going to give them the tools, eqpt, and materials to build there nice comfy Mars houses?

Who is going to cloth, feed, and take care of their medical and human needs?

The people of the United States mostly, of that you can be sure!

Hazer · 2004-04-24 14:44:18

Already addressed your point.

4) The wishes of the body sponsoring the settlers.

PurduesUSAFguy · 2004-04-25 13:41:13

I see no reason why during the first phases of colonization that Mars not be governed under the American constitution as a territory, and eventually be either granted statehood or independence. Preferable independence, this will mark a turning point in US history, the closing of the circle, new world to next new world, colony to colonizer.

Hazer · 2004-04-25 23:42:26

Well it all depends who gets there first eh?

Martian Republic · 2004-06-16 16:47:01

Well it all depends who gets there first eh?

Not necessarily, it going to be the one who has the staying power and the vision and the right kind of banking system that will determine the rules on Mars. Currently there is no nation that could get to Mars and under the Current banking system, nobody could afford to build a city there if they could get Mars.

So unless you have people who think like Alexander Hamilton and they have the power to put together a National Banking system instead of private banking system like the Federal Reserve, it won't make any difference who first, second or third.

Larry,

Gennaro · 2004-06-16 17:47:58

Europe intends to go to Mars in order to eventually benefit from any and all settlements thus founded.

We do not recognize the claims of any International Space Agency, neither on Earth or Mars, so what restrictions a party or parties would try to impose on the entire planet we consider utterly in lack of legitimacy, null and void.

Those control a territory who settles and cultivates it through permanent presence, simple as that.
It means a given colony might well be no larger than a few kilometers in diameter, depending on its nature, seperated by miles and miles of wasteland before the first Japanese outpost.
Anyone can take out a ruler and draw lines on a map. Why settle for Mars? Why not put claims to the entire solar system, the Oort Cloud or better yet, the stellar neighbourhood while you're at it? It doesn't mean a thing if you can't back it up militarily or exercise control through physical presence.

Naturally, we do not disallow anyone else subjecting to an international government if they so wish. We simply have no interest in it ourselves and any infringement upon our sovereignity will be met in force.

Cordially,
Senatus Popolusque Romanus

~Eternal~ · 2004-06-18 22:19:37

I bet 50 cents with intrest that by 2100 Mars will be a Socialist Democratic Republic.

spaceman9000 · 2005-11-05 10:41:50

two words: capitalist republic, none of this ISA/UN world socialist dictatorship

Martian Republic · 2005-11-07 10:05:21

Actually, I'm a Hamilton and Ben Franklin man and not a Jefferson man like you spaceman9000. They have a slightly different philosophy than Jefferson have although there all three founding fathers of the United States. We started off with a Hamilton Banking system with the First National Bank and then Jefferson philosophy which did a belly flop and we retreated back to a Hamilton Banking system with the Second National Bank. Philosophically both Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt were both Hamilton leaning or thinking men too.

Larry,

Copper · 2005-11-07 18:50:38

You're being short sighted. Why stop at Mars?

Don't you think every planet in the entire universe should follow your rules?

Of course they should, that is the only rational way to proceed.

Wow! It would be awful if somebody went to a whole "new" planet and didn't do better than "than we Earthlings, have done on our Planet."

You better change the name from International Space Agency to Whole Universe Space Agency before somebody gets the wrong idea.

Leifur · 2005-11-07 20:34:32

My two words: Shareholders republic.

That is, they who invest in the colonisation, and terraforming of Mars, weather with their money or work, get a share in the Mars Development Corporation and thus voting rights accordingly.

The Mars Planetary Council should ratify and adopt a General Mars Constitution, in which Colonies "States" may each have their own Independence and freedom to pick their own localized leaders. But like the United States of America, a Federal Mars Government would be created to oversee Planetary Transportation, Communications, Human Services (ie:Emergency Services, Civil Police, Hospitals, Social Services, Ect.), Power/Water/Sewer Services, Earth/Mars & Earth/Luna Diplomatic and Commercial Relations.

But lets discuss the thread founder´s idea. Tell me why these issues should be on the Central/Federal government instead with each and every colony, county, bundesrepublic, or state? Or even better on the responsibility of each individual?

Why remake the problems of today on Earth, in this instince particularly the US, on Mars, instead of doing it right this time? And how could such a central government pay for all these things in colonies spread over the whole surface of Mars. The logistical and financial aspects of this would be nightmaris, just if we take one of those things, f.e. Hospitals.

I can in many ways agree with Cobra commander that if it is thus thouroghly established how the political system of Mars should be, before we get there, it would effectively reduce my motivation to go there. Mars political system should be something new, something better than what we have had before. I have been talking about certein things in my posts, wich I would like to try to establish on Mars if I could go there, and have any influence on establishing.

About Hosbitals, wich MR. Dobson can´t think could be provided by any else than a centralized Government. Of course the population of Mars will initially be young and relatively healthy, so it would not be very diffuclt for each and every individual to save for older age, when he is more likely to be sick, and they will have enough time to buy insurance from private sources.

And as the health hazard of living on Mars, radiation and such is huge, it makes no sense for a poor martian government to take that responsibility on its shoulders, from the people that can, by their own behaviour limit their danger by radiation and such.

This is just one issue, I would like to hear better arguments for leaving those issues on the hands of a future Martian government, and why if people will not want it to be on each individual, it should then not be on each "state" or colony.

Grypd · 2005-11-08 13:49:55

I suspect that when people get to Mars it will not be one just one set of countries or country that manages to make it. This means there will be more than one culture with the different wants and beliefs of the people there. Who is to say that there will be a single political structure on Mars and when it comes down to it Mars is massive there is a lot of room for a lot of such different political units.

We could have a tyranny in the south and a religous state in the North who can really tell. My own belief is that democracy will flourish with communities linked via Mars internet rather than regular visits to each other. This will actually give incentive to interesting political structures rather than bland across the board methods

RobS · 2005-11-08 18:55:09

Whether you have one political unit or many has a lot to do with technology. At first, nonexistent or horrendously expensive transportation and safety issues will confine everyone to one spot on Mars. If there are two bases, they will be a few minutes apart to provide each other safety backup. That means most people on Mars will have face to face relations. That will help create some cultural commonality and may lead to common administrative structures.

Later as the population grows they will have the luxury of greater administrative and cultural diversity, but they will also have a certain amount of cultural momentum and habits from the earlier phase.

-- RobS

Commodore · 2005-11-30 17:34:45

Democracy in some form obviously. Probably a combination of direct on the local level and representative on the planetary level. If certain parties on Earth don't like that, the parties that do will make sure you don't go.

Economics will be trickier. Life support will be a very tangible thing, so there is apt to either be a hard standard for ensuring people are fed, watered, pressurizeds and oxidized before they get here or are born, or a collective welfare system that would dwarf anything on Earth. Of course the advantage is there is a very clear line between needs and wants, so there remains plenty of room for a strong capitalist sector.

GCNRevenger · 2005-12-07 21:41:19

Speak truth to power!

sdc2 · 2005-12-08 03:45:50

Speak truth to power!

Power does not seek or speak Truth?!

Only seeks more Power and will speak anything to get it!!

So why would anyone want to speak Truth to Power!?

Just a waste of time and effort.

GCNRevenger · 2005-12-09 18:19:49

Wooow

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#1 2004-04-12 16:20:41

Re: What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

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Re: What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

#3 2004-04-15 13:44:06

Re: What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

#4 2004-04-15 13:48:41

Re: What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

#5 2004-04-21 23:25:06

Re: What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

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Re: What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

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Re: What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

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Re: What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

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Re: What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

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Re: What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

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Re: What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

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Re: What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

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Re: What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

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Re: What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

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Re: What Type Of Government Should Mars Have?? - Mars Government

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