You are not logged in.
The first paragraph of Article 1 of the Agreement Governing the Activities of States on the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies (a.k.a. The Moon Treaty) reads as follows: "1. The provisions of this Agreement relating to the moon shall also apply to other celestial bodies within the solar system, other than the earth, except in so far as specific legal norms enter into force with respect to any of these celestial bodies." The words "except in so far as specific legal norms enter into force with respect to any of these celestial bodies" allows the establishment of an internationally recognized Provisional Government of Mars.
A Provisional Government of Mars could be established by international consensus (e.g., by a United Nations declaration). The Provisional Government could be authorized to establish a Mars Development Bank, which could in turn be authorized to lease portions of Mars to terrestrial states. The Bank could use those lease payments to fund the exploration and settlement of Mars.
The Provisional Government could also authorize the establishment of municipal governments, which could in turn establish land tenure systems that authorize the private ownership of homes and businesses. The construction of municipal facilities and homes and businesses could be funded by the Mars Development Bank.
In summary, current international law allows the establishment of "legal norms" for Mars. Those norms could be set forth in a "Constitution of the Provisional Government of Mars." One or more international consortiums of terrestrial states could lease portions of Mars and thereby fund the exploration and settlement of Mars by a neutral third party (i.e., the Provisional Government of Mars). This regime is one way to get around the "problem" of terrestrial states exercising sovereignty over extraterrestrial territory.
I have previously posted "Draft Laws for the Peaceful Settlement of Mars." Those draft laws contain all the boring legalese that would be needed to (1) establish a Provisional Government of Mars and (2) provide for the financing and construction of privately owned homes and businesses on Mars.
Offline
The Mars Bank is inadquete and unequal as described. It favors the Industrialy Developed nations which have the funds to purchase the tracts of land on Mars. The Mars Bank is also biased towards Industrialized Nations since they at present are the only ones even capable of considering the exploitation or exploration of the Red Planet.
Now, the process as described, would have the Martian Bank invest the funds used to aquire lease rights on Mars to help fund settlement and exploration of Mars- a noble goal, however, who would they send to Mars? How would they decide? It would seem they would be sending people who want to settle mars- and I'm sure these people could find a job exploiting the resources that the Nations of Earth have leased from Mars Bank- but being the inhabitants of Mars, wouldn't they be exploiting the resources for their own benefit but paying Earh Nations for that right since the nations are leasing it from the Mars Bank- what do the Martians pay with if all the resources are leased? Whatever the individuals get paid will be a pittance in comparison to what the raw materials would be worth, or what it would cost to build something on Mars- they wouldn't be able to sell the raw resources since those already belong to the Nations of Earth- they would be stuck for the first 50 years with a lease that prevented them from making any money (the martians)- and no nation would invest unless they could reasonably expect to get people on Mars and exploiting the lease- so it is easy to imagine a clause whereby the lease does not come into effect until people are in a position to exploit the resources.... which further leads to the problem of a nation or several nations just buying up large tracts of mars and never sending anyone there just to prevent others from exploiting it.
The plan leaves out 3/4 of humanity becuase they are too poor and only serves to perpetuate the status quo.
The universe belongs to us all, or it belongs to a select few- which is it?
Offline
Clark:
In response to my previous message you wrote, "It favors the Industrialy Developed nations which have the funds to purchase the tracts of land on Mars."
I am firmly opposed to allowing terrestrial nations to purchase tracts of land on Mars. My proposal allows leases ONLY.
And you wrote that the Mars Development "Bank is also biased towards Industrialized Nations since they at present are the only ones even capable of considering the exploitation or exploration of the Red Planet."
Please note that a consortium of rich and poor nations could jointly lease tracts of land on Mars and that those nations could contribute to lease payments on an ability-to-pay-basis (i.e., countries with larger GNPs would pay proportionately larger shares of the leasing costs).
You also wrote, "the Martian Bank invest[s] the funds used to aquire lease rights on Mars to help fund settlement and exploration of Mars- a noble goal, however, who would they send to Mars?"
I would like to see at least one prototype martian settlement in every country on Earth. Each settlement could periodically choose one family to go to the full-scale prototype settlement in Antarctica. If they can survive a year there then they would become eligible to emigrate to Mars.
You asked, "...being the inhabitants of Mars, wouldn't they be exploiting the resources for their own benefit but paying Earh Nations for that right since the nations are leasing it from the Mars Bank- what do the Martians pay with if all the resources are leased?"
Each group of settlers will have a Settlement Charter that allows them to take control of an area 10 kilometers in radius (KIR). That area may or may not be located inside a larger area that is leased to a terrestrial nation or consortium of terrestrial nations. If a settlement is located outside of a leased area then the settlers will be able to exploit their 10KIR exclusively for their own benefit and in accordance with laws that they adopt. If they choose to locate their settlement in a leased area then they will have to negotiate a resource extraction agreement with the leaseholder.
And you wrote, "...no nation would invest unless they could reasonably expect to get people on Mars and exploiting the lease..."
These leases are not commercial leases. Terrestrial nations will not expect to recover the cost of the lease payments through resource extraction agreements with settlers. For the first 100 years, colonizing Mars is going to be a very expensive losing proposition, just as early European attempts to colonize the North America were very expensive losing propositions. However, the leasing arrangement that I have proposed allows terrestrial nations to join together to colonize Mars WITHOUT exercising sovereignty over Mars. Please regard my proposal as a temporary solution to a terrestrial POLITICAL problem, not as a solution to the problem of paying for the cost of colonizing Mars.
And you wrote, "The plan leaves out 3/4 of humanity becuase they are too poor and only serves to perpetuate the status quo."
As I have previously stated, rich and poor nations can join development consortiums and apportion costs among themselves on an ability-to-pay basis. I cannot insure that this will happen but I will strongly advocate that it occur. And if I were a member of the Board of Directors of the Mars Development Bank then I would probably not approve leases unless the lessees provided written documentation of such agreements. My proposal can and should be implemented in an equitable manner.
You wrote, "The universe belongs to us all, or it belongs to a select few- which is it?"
Extraterrestrial territories do not currently belong to anyone; not to "us all" and not to "a select few." I have proposed a regime that will allow settlers to own their homes and businesses and enough territory to support themselves. That's "fair."
"Analysis, whether economic or other, never yields more that a statement about the tendencies present in an observable pattern." Joseph A. Schumpeter; Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy, 1942
Offline
I have proposed a regime that will allow settlers to own their homes and businesses and enough territory to support themselves. That's "fair."
No, you haven't. You have set up a system whereby the current model of repression through economic slavery will continue. You further ensure this eventuality by establishing defacto control of Mars for all rich developed nations.
You mention that poor nations can band together- a group of poor nations is still poor when compared to the wealth of ONE industrialized nation- and a group of poor nations still couldn't compete becuase their independant soverignty would more than likely result in infighting as they seek to find their "own" way to develop mars.
You further state that martian settlers can take land that is not leased- how would that be a possibility if all the land is leased? You made no stipulation that any amount of land would be reserved for Native use. You also neglect the reality of the situation- you state that those who locate on leased land will have to work out a payment arrangement with the martians who settle on the lease-holders land- fine, what happens when all the readily available sources of water are secured by lease-holders? What about all the rich available sources of ore? Most of the resources neccessary for a functioning martian settlement will be scouted and bought and leased PRIOR to any martian settlement- everything the settlement will need will be owned... why? Becuase any martian settlers that go to mars represent the ONLY market for martian resources- that is what make the rescources valuable in the first place.
Since the rescources are owned- they now must be purchased from Earth- congratulations, you have now codified indentured servitude.
History is such a poor teacher.
Offline
*The problem of owning Mars. It's an especially troublesome issue for me. Let's suppose each settlement is given "sovereign rights" to the land it rests on and a 2-mile radius beyond it -- but that's all. I think we need to ensure that each settlement is considered soverign to the host nation which sent the crew. But beyond that circle of immediate soverignity [which lasts only as long as the settlement actively lasts], Mars is absolutely free.
However, here's the big question: How do we avoid war on Mars over land disputes? Humans usually go to war over land. I think the first nation to land there, especially if it has a lot of corporate might behind it, will make excessive *claims* to specific sections of Mars -- whether any one of us likes it or not [I don't].
Also, won't NOT staking claim in Marsian land only delay an inevitable eruption of war between nations and/or their respective settlements? Sad to say, but past behavior is the indicator of future behavior -- and humans can get really nasty when it comes to property disputes.
This is going to be a real pickle. Maybe the only thing that will "save" Mars and stifle massive property disputes is the fact that only really committed people will be going -- it's not a Caribbean cruise, after all -- and life there will be demanding, full of challenges and dangers, and hard.
Just some thoughts.
--Cindy
We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...
--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)
Offline
However, here's the big question: How do we avoid war on Mars over land disputes? Humans usually go to war over land.
Establish an independant third party that has the power to resolve, settle, and enforce the decision of a dispute.
War is used becuase neither side recognizes a common third party that is able to settle the dispute. Both parties must consent to be bound by the decision prior to the hearing.
Each US state is a country- if California has a dispute with Nevada, the federal government can intervene or decide the dispute between us- we recognize the power of the federal government so we abide by it's ruling- just make a bucnh of independant states on mars that are all beholden to a central "World Mars" court.
Offline
Clark: Establish an independant third party that has the power to resolve, settle, and enforce the decision of a dispute.
*Who will establish this independent 3rd party? And on what basis? What if 3 out of 5 nations intending to settle Mars -- or may already be there -- refuse to recognize this independent 3rd party?
War is used becuase neither side recognizes a common third party that is able to settle the dispute. Both parties must consent to be bound by the decision prior to the hearing.
*Tell that to the Israelis and Palestinians.
Each US state is a country- if California has a dispute with Nevada, the federal government can intervene or decide the dispute between us- we recognize the power of the federal government so we abide by it's ruling-
*But Mars won't be the U.S., and we can't expect foreign nations to accept the U.S. model of government for their settlements...what if they don't?
just make a bucnh of independant states on mars that are all beholden to a central "World Mars" court.
*And how do you propose to do that?
--Cindy
We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...
--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)
Offline
You asked for a solution, I offered one- the only one that avoids outright war. Now you ask me to explain how we do THAT... you give me more credit than I deserve, but here we go:
*Who will establish this independent 3rd party?
The people going to mars, and the people sending them to mars. No one goes until this is settled.
What if 3 out of 5 nations intending to settle Mars -- or may already be there -- refuse to recognize this independent 3rd party?
Then you have no binding way to resolve disputes between them- you in effect perpetuate the same system we have on Earth. That's why nation states fight one another- they do not all recognize each others rights, and there is no authority that can hold them to a decision they do not agree with. You end up with war.
War is used becuase neither side recognizes a common third party that is able to settle the dispute. Both parties must consent to be bound by the decision prior to the hearing.
*Tell that to the Israelis and Palestinians.
Many people have been trying to exactly that, and that is the ONLY way (save genocide) that peace will be established. Right now they bicker over WHO the third party is going to be.
*But Mars won't be the U.S., and we can't expect foreign nations to accept the U.S. model of government for their settlements...what if they don't?
Foreign nations do not have to accept the US model of government- it is accepting a STANDARD model for resolving disputes between soverign states. A central authority must be establsihed that has the sole right to use force- each member state MUST NOT have this monoploy on force, otherwise there WILL be war.
Why do we as individuals listen to judges and cops- becuase they have the right to legitametly use force to execute their decision- we do not. States can tell us what to do, becuase they have the power of force over us- the federal gov'mnt can tell the states what to do becuase the feds have the power of force over the states...
just make a bucnh of independant states on mars that are all beholden to a central "World Mars" court.
*And how do you propose to do that?
Establish a critiera for "statehood", when statehood critera is met, the state is allowed full rights in the World Body, which means they get a say in what rules are placed on them by the world governing body.
Offline
Clark:
I could revise my draft constitution to include a limit on the amount of martian territory that could be leased. For example, I could revise Section 8 to read: "The Government may establish and maintain a Mars Development Bank. The Bank may lease portions of Mars to people, companies, and states for periods of up to 50 martian years, except that the total of all leased areas shall not exceed x percent of all martian territory.
What numerical value should replace the x? How about 25 or 33?
"Analysis, whether economic or other, never yields more that a statement about the tendencies present in an observable pattern." Joseph A. Schumpeter; Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy, 1942
Offline
However, here's the big question: How do we avoid war on Mars over land disputes?
Cindy:
My draft constitution provides that a Center Monument may not be placed within 21 kilometers of any other Center Monument. Since each settlement area is 10 kilometers in radius, there will be a buffer zone between settlements. The buffer zone will be at least 1 kilometer wide. This rule could generate a settlement pattern that looks like the dimples on a golf ball. In the absence of common borders, we would not see the kind of "border wars" that neighboring terrestrial states engage in.
"Analysis, whether economic or other, never yields more that a statement about the tendencies present in an observable pattern." Joseph A. Schumpeter; Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy, 1942
Offline
I could revise my draft constitution to include a limit on the amount of martian territory that could be leased. For example, I could revise Section 8 to read: "The Government may establish and maintain a Mars Development Bank. The Bank may lease portions of Mars to people, companies, and states for periods of up to 50 martian years, except that the total of all leased areas shall not exceed x percent of all martian territory.
It is a good idea to revise, however this does not resolve several outstanding issues:
1. How do you prevent the aquisition of all the rich areas of resources that would be most useful to any new settlement on Mars? If one nation buys all the available land that holds all the available water, you have instutited the means with which to establish an economic slavery over the inhabitants of Mars.
2. How do you prevent the exclusion of poorer, less developed nations from what is supposed to be equally theirs? There seems to be no means to "level the playing field" so all of humanity may benefit- not just the rich industrialized cultures and countries.
3. How do you propose to enforce anything once people are on Mars? Who will enforce the contracts? Why would anybody follow the rules?
4. Setting aside a percentage of land can be made meaningless. If the land is broken up into small parcels then all the land around it could be sold- you end up with a weird patch work of "free land" and leased land- the leased land would probably be larger intact tracts since they would fetch more money- the free land would be small and distributed, since it has no economic value. You need more than X amount of land- what's to prevent all of the most suitable areas for colonization from being bought up?
I owuld suggest that any settlers who get to mars get whatever land they NEED- if it is already leased, then the group that leased it is compensated- Eminent Domain.
Offline
I could revise my draft constitution to include a limit on the amount of martian territory that could be leased. For example, I could revise Section 8 to read: "The Government may establish and maintain a Mars Development Bank. The Bank may lease portions of Mars to people, companies, and states for periods of up to 50 martian years, except that the total of all leased areas shall not exceed x percent of all martian territory.
It is a good idea to revise, however this does not resolve several outstanding issues:
1. How do you prevent the aquisition of all the rich areas of resources that would be most useful to any new settlement on Mars? If one nation buys all the available land that holds all the available water, you have instutited the means with which to establish an economic slavery over the inhabitants of Mars.
2. How do you prevent the exclusion of poorer, less developed nations from what is supposed to be equally theirs? There seems to be no means to "level the playing field" so all of humanity may benefit- not just the rich industrialized cultures and countries.
3. How do you propose to enforce anything once people are on Mars? Who will enforce the contracts? Why would anybody follow the rules?
4. Setting aside a percentage of land can be made meaningless. If the land is broken up into small parcels then all the land around it could be sold- you end up with a weird patch work of "free land" and leased land- the leased land would probably be larger intact tracts since they would fetch more money- the free land would be small and distributed, since it has no economic value. You need more than X amount of land- what's to prevent all of the most suitable areas for colonization from being bought up?
I owuld suggest that any settlers who get to mars get whatever land they NEED- if it is already leased, then the group that leased it is compensated- Eminent Domain.
Offline
I wouldn't worry too much about who is originally in control of mars....if people started to settle there then over time communities would develop and so would a culture...yeah maybe there will be a few wars....maybe the Martian history will continue to have wars such as earths..SO WHAT...what are you going to do about it...change the way we are designed...take a few strands of DNA out here and add alittle there?
At the end of the day the Martians would naturally seek and eventually gain control over their own planet...who knows...one day we may even go to war with them....but thats how we are...and with out the ying and yang in us we would never have been able to survive crawling out of that swamp millions of years ago...what do you expect....we should try to turn Mars into a race of people that can't defend them selves?....May sound good in lala land but not a good trait for a population of a planet to have.
Wake up and get with the only plan that works with mother nature.
Offline
Well, I've reviewed this draft Constitution and have come up with these points of controversy: (This is a long post so please bear with me)
Points of Controversy in Martian Provisional Constitution as brought forth by Scott G. Beach
#1
----
Section 1. This Constitution shall become effective when it has been adopted by the Mars Society and when the United Nations declares that Mars shall be governed and settled in accordance with this Constitution
My problem with this is that it implies that only the Mars Society will be deciding the details of every Martian Settlement mission...I suggest that this be amended to include any group that has any actual claim to be staked on Mars in the form of settlements...Of course any mention of the Mars Society within this entire Constitution should be amended to include various groups
#2
----
Section 3. Any person
Does this include people who are not members of any groups interested in settling Mars, if not we must remember, it is in ambiguaty that Constitutions experience problems, the 2nd amend. and Impeachment sections of the US const. being good examples...Anywho, if this does mean ANY person then it is important to remember that Terrestrial organizations, especially the govt's or corporations funding the missions will desire a great many things from a provisional Martian Govt. and this section may give them the power to do anything the want in regards to the way the Provisional constitution is amended over time...
#3
----
Section 6. Twenty or more people may jointly apply for a Settlement Charter. Such application shall be submitted in writing to the Terrestrial Embassy of this Government or to any terrestrial Consulate. Such application shall be accompanied by the payment of an application processing fee of one ounce of gold.
Firstly, the point of a provisional Govt. is to exclude terrestrial influences from determining what is done with the resources there...Any Land Charters should be given out by the provisional govt. itself without having to consult terran forces...Secondly, how valuable will gold be on Mars, I mean its true value in respect to its industrial and commercial uses beyond jewlery here is grossly overrated, a different standard must be used on Mars, perhaps the Nitrogen standard discussed in KSR's trilogy will suffice, after all it will probably end up being one of the most valuable substances out there as it is needed in agriculture...And as for the number of people required to request a land charter, this should be reduced if not eliminated as a factor, after all, we don't want to eliminate the possibility of homesteading, as for the land givin in charters, that should be discussed on a case by case basis, as not everyone is going to need an area 20 klicks in diameter...
#4
----
Section 7. The Government may establish and maintain a Terrestrial Embassy and one or more terrestrial Consulates.
Only if the populace of said settlement chooses through a vote or perhaps 2/3 majority...
#5
----
Section 8. The Government may establish and maintain a Mars Development Bank. The Bank may lease portions of Mars to people, companies, and states for periods of up to 50 martian years.
I think that this Mars Development Bank should be a branch of the Provisional Martian Govt, subject to cheques and balances...As for 50 M-years, thats a Terran century, if the land was stewarded properly within their land area than it should be considered that the land title be changed from lease to actual full ownership of the land and everything in it. This will allow independant semi-autonomous city-states (even though I hate that term, though semi-autonomy alieviates some of the inherent danger of that) This will give the people a better sense of freedom, as well as being a part of the great human endeavor, as it were...
#6
----
Section 9. The Government may construct a Center Monument on the continent of Antarctica and exercise sovereignty over an area ten kilometers in radius,
I like this, its a great lithmus test for the efficiency and effectiveness of this type of Govt. As well as keeping the Martians in touch with Earth without being ruled by them when people make that voyage, A Martian embassy settlement on Earth in terrain familiar to Martians, as it were...
#7
----
Section 10. The flag of this Government shall consist of three vertical stripes. The stripe at the hoist end of the flag shall be red, the central stripe shall be green, and the final stripe shall be blue. The hoist or flag width shall be two-thirds of the fly or flag length and the width of each stripe shall be one-third of the flag length.
I think a Martian Flag should be left out of the constitution, and any settlement should be allowed to fly its own flag, and not be forced to lower its flag below the flag of the Provisional govt...Gives people more sense of freedom from controlling forces...
#8
----
Section 11. Weapons shall not be transported to Mars. Parliament may adopt statutes that regulate the manufacture and possession of weapons
This is the biggest point of controversy in this document...Ok people, especially Americans, will want their guns, however, even when used in self defense a leathal weapon may miss or penetrate straight through a target and compromise a structure, in effect one bullet can kill a settlement of 100,000 people...Weapons produced on Mars should perhaps be limited to short range stun guns, although no pepper spray or mace, as that, over time, will begin to contaminate air filtration systems...If weapons must be there let them be handheld melee or stun type weapons...
#9
----
BIG POINT...There is no section regarding the environmental impact of settlements, many settlers and scientists are going to want to keep the world as pristine as possible to reduce the effect of contamination in the search for past or current indiginous life on Mars, as well as those who want the world to stay like it is right now...An environmental court independant of terran influence must also be established and incorporated as a branch of the provisional Govt.
#10
----
Draft Ordinances for the Voters of Port Zubrin
The Ambassador of the Terrestrial Embassy of the Provisional Government of Mars issued a Settlement Charter to John Doe, Jane Roe, and others on [insert date];
Once again I think it imperative that it not be the Terran embassies in control of Land charters, It should be the Provincial govt. itself or the "Mars Development Bank" hypothetical branch of Govt
I look forward to some feedback on this, I know I have left out some important things like the implications of the rich buying up the richest land and the like, however I think its a good start....
Your friendly neighborhood martian
-Matt
"...all matter is merely energy condensed into a slow vibration. We are all one consiousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves." -Bill Hicks
Offline
Matt, et al:
I posted my essay about owning Mars on the web at http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/index.htm. This latest update contains a draft lease between the Provisional Government of Mars and a consortium of terrestrial nations. Please take a look at the draft lease and let me know what you think of it.
Scott
"Analysis, whether economic or other, never yields more that a statement about the tendencies present in an observable pattern." Joseph A. Schumpeter; Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy, 1942
Offline