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No life on Mars

Banned

From: Newyork

Registered: 2004-02-25

Posts: 50

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Mystery Spheres on Mars Finally Identified

"Hematite as a major compositional phase in the spherules supports their formation via precipitation, rather than as impact-related fallout,"
read article 
[http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/ma … 40317.html]Space.com

Josh Cryer

Moderator

Registered: 2001-09-29

Posts: 3,830

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

AAARGH! Spirit ruined the beatiful dune! Those tourists are all the same...

Haha, that made my day.

---

Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Spirit is really showing Opportunity up here!

*Spirit, the rover which nearly konked out on us, which went on to set a distance record -and- returned the first snapshot of Earth from another planet.   

Someone started a "which rover do you like better" thread quite a while ago.  My response then was "I like them both equally"...but I've really grown to admire Spirit's moxie and feist.   

Ah well, as someone here reminds us dourly, this is SCIENCE...we shouldn't get too keyed up about it.    (fa! fa!)

--Cindy 

---

We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Some other really nice pics from Spirit...

[http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2M1326 … 1.JPG.html]http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2M1326 … 1.JPG.html  sandcakes...
[http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2N1326 … 1.JPG.html]http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2N1326 … 1.JPG.html very straight mini-dune
[http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2P1326 … 1.JPG.html]http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2P1326 … 1.JPG.html Big dune (EDIT: it's nicknamed Serpent Dune)

*Oh my god, I'm in LOVE!  These are FANTASTIC pics!!  Seems like you can almost reach into the monitor and scoop up a handful of that glorious sand, huh? 

--Cindy

---

We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

GraemeSkinner

Member

From: Eden Hall, Cumbria

Registered: 2004-02-20

Posts: 563

Website

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Ah well, as someone here reminds us dourly, this is SCIENCE...we shouldn't get too keyed up about it.    (fa! fa!)

Just because its science does not mean that we should not get excited about it. My interest in Mars is primarily through physics and astronomy - but that does not mean I don't get excited by the new data coming back, or find myself unable to wait like an expectant child a month before christmas as the rovers make their way slowly across the Martian surface. If people are unable to get keyed up about a subject perhaps fine - but I don't believe (as I'm sure many here would agree) its only science.

I can spend half a day working on an equation for my degree course, and when the ends in sight you can bet I'm keyed up, and that is also only science at the end of the day  :;):

Graeme

---

There was a young lady named Bright.
Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day
in a relative way
And returned on the previous night.
--Arthur Buller--

Rxke

Member

From: Belgium

Registered: 2003-11-03

Posts: 3,669

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Totally agree! Science *IS* fun, exciting, exhilarating... It is searching and finding out stuff.... And that if fun.
(Of course, a lot of boring tedious stuff, too, but...)

I think our minds are 'wired' to enjoy discovering new things, makes us evolve...

(EDIT: Weird post if you consider I *totally* messed up my chemistry partial exam today )

dickbill

Member

Registered: 2002-09-28

Posts: 749

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Mystery Spheres on Mars Finally Identified

"Hematite as a major compositional phase in the spherules supports their formation via precipitation, rather than as impact-related fallout,"
read article 
[http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/ma … 40317.html]Space.com

But if I remember well, there were two kinds of spherules, the non shiny and the shiny, with a distinct metallic reflection.
The one in "blueberry bowl" seems the non-shiny type, was it this one the hematite ?
Could the shiny type be iron sulfur/pyrite ?

Also, subsidary question. I remember vaguely how works a mosbauer spectrometer, mostly forgotten from a long time teaching, but could somebody here describe shortly what is that Mausbauer spectrometry  ? thanks

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

It's definitely a rusty planet!
  ([http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040318a/09-JG-03-scuffpan-A074R1_br.jpg]zoom)

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

http://www.ominous-valve.com/pancam.html]This table shows that pancam has just Red and Blue Left/Right filters, but only left Green filter. Is it possible to combine in some way (add, subtract, divide, convolve... I dont' know...) right images to at least "emulate" a green filter? Color 3d panoramas would be really breathtaking! Why didn't they adopted also a green filter on the right cam?!? 

Luca

SBird

Banned

Registered: 2004-03-10

Posts: 490

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Mossbauer spectroscopy is one of the wierder ones.  I don't fully understand how they get the electronic structure out of the nuclear energy levels but here's an explanatory link: [http://www.rsc.org/lap/rsccom/dab/mossb … /intro.htm]link

Rxke

Member

From: Belgium

Registered: 2003-11-03

Posts: 3,669

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Errr... Folks...

Guess what Spirit found? Spirit, not Opportunity!
[http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2M1328 … 1.JPG.html]http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2M1328 … 1.JPG.html

eh?

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Errr... Folks...

Guess what Spirit found? Spirit, not Opportunity!
[http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2M1328 … 1.JPG.html]http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2M1328 … 1.JPG.html

eh?

They look very different from the Opportunity's spherules! These are actually not exactly circular-shaped. But, most important, I have a feeling of beeing looking at a dig in the bank of a river on Earth: wet sand, wet pebbles...(can you see how sand grains stay attached to the pebbles?).

Waiting for the color version of the photo.

BTW, why can't I find L4 photos on [http://www.lyle.org/mars]Lyle.org ? Does not rover send them to Earth? Does not NASA send them to Internet? They are required to build an RGB photo, but in most cases I am not able to find them! 

Luca

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Incredible, it looks like that planet is completely covered with this spherules!

You can't see them in the thumbnail above or in the color pancam view of the dune

([http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery]zoom)
but you can see them in the microscope closs-up, although in b/w!

microscope zoom

Is anybody of you able to make on overlay of b/w microscope and color pancam imahes, to obtain a "color" microscope image?

Luca

Stu

Member

From: Kendal, Cumbria, England

Registered: 2001-09-04

Posts: 318

Website

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Errr... Folks...

Guess what Spirit found? Spirit, not Opportunity!
http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2M1328 … .JPG.html]

Oh boy...

That looks like real river-bed or -bank gravel to me... anyone else?

Anyone else beginning to think there was once a LOT of water at these two landing sites..?

---

Stuart Atkinson

Skywatching Blog: [url]http://journals.aol.com/stuartatk/Cumbrian-Sky[/url]

Astronomical poetry, including mars rover poems: [url]http://journals.aol.com/stuartatk/TheVerse[/url]

Arccos

Member

From: Czechia

Registered: 2004-01-07

Posts: 46

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Let's hope that Spirit will make it to the Columbia Hills to find some better evidences!

---

My knowledge of the English language is poor - but still I'm here .

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Errr... Folks...

Guess what Spirit found? Spirit, not Opportunity!
http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2M1328 … .JPG.html]

Oh boy...

That looks like real river-bed or -bank gravel to me... anyone else?

Anyone else beginning to think there was once a LOT of water at these two landing sites..?

*Yes, Stu 

[http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/ro … 40318.html]http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/ro … 40318.html

*"With NASA's Mars rover Spirit nearing the end of its primary mission profile and its twin, Opportunity, more than halfway through its own, mission planners preparing to give the two robots a longer leash while scaling back the amount of people on the project.

Mission managers are looking ahead to an extended mission for both Spirit and Opportunity, which will kick in once the robots complete their first 90 days -- or sols on Mars. To prepare for what is expected to be at least a few more months of Mars exploration, --->NASA officials plan to cut the 300 scientists and engineers on the mission by more than a third,<--- according to one mission manager. 

'We are going to be reducing the staff and slowing down as [the rovers] get later into their lifetimes,' said Mark Adler, a mission manager for the Mars Exploration Rover (MER) mission during a press briefing today at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, California. 'We're trying to get more people on Earth time than on Mars time.'"

*A few more MONTHS of exploration. 

--Cindy

::EDIT:: 

"The deep-sleep program will also help Opportunity partially fix a faulty heater that has been stuck on since the rover landed, cutting its power at night."

*There's been so much to keep up with overall; I forgot (?) this was still a problem.

---

We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Rxke

Member

From: Belgium

Registered: 2003-11-03

Posts: 3,669

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Yup, i posted the gravel pic half as a laugh, for the 'sperule-crazed massess'  but was actually very excited about the find... But is it really river-gravel? The decaying/weathering stuff at that place is... weird...

i actually thought 'pebbles, yeeeehaaa! but... wasn't that place considered a fair bit dryer than opp site?

could this be dry weathering (wind) instead of water weathering?

In a way i think this pic is more interesting than the sperules, because it looks so... 'normal' as if yes, there was a river bank, some time in the past...

dickbill

Member

Registered: 2002-09-28

Posts: 749

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Opportunity :
[http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … 56M2M1.JPG]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery....2M1.JPG

It seems there is two populations of spherules, pretty homogene in size and some doublets budding. Why such homogeneity of size ? why all intermediate size are not found ?
And why just doublet budding, if the spherules are concretions, growing around a nucleus randomly spaced, we should observe doublet triplets etc, even blobs-like aggregates of spherules.

I am puzzled. Have we ever observed such things on earth, in acidic volcanic lakes for example ?

Rxke

Member

From: Belgium

Registered: 2003-11-03

Posts: 3,669

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

the 'magnitude of scale' question bothers me, too...

Oh BTW: count the hollow/pierced sperules: [http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1M1328 … 1.JPG.html]http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1M1328 … 1.JPG.html

Rxke

Member

From: Belgium

Registered: 2003-11-03

Posts: 3,669

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

(Spirit) Operations think descending the crater is not worth the risk, they don't see anything interesting enough... they're going to head to the hills instead!
(After some more picture taking and Mossbauering, i hope, the site *around* the crater is interesting enough...)

dickbill

Member

Registered: 2002-09-28

Posts: 749

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

marine pollymetallic nodules :

[http://www.mnhn.fr/mnhn/geo/Collection_ … es_eng.htm]http://www.mnhn.fr/mnhn....eng.htm

seems much less homogenous in shape than the martian nodules. Probably that the nucleation processus was completely different.

Rxke

Member

From: Belgium

Registered: 2003-11-03

Posts: 3,669

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Interesting find, Dickbill!

so it *could* be formed indirectly through an organic process... Hmmm...

Stu

Member

From: Kendal, Cumbria, England

Registered: 2001-09-04

Posts: 318

Website

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Don't mean to worry anyone, but I think the Borg may already be on Mars...

[http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/galler … 53R1M1.JPG]http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery....1M1.JPG

---

Stuart Atkinson

Skywatching Blog: [url]http://journals.aol.com/stuartatk/Cumbrian-Sky[/url]

Astronomical poetry, including mars rover poems: [url]http://journals.aol.com/stuartatk/TheVerse[/url]

GraemeSkinner

Member

From: Eden Hall, Cumbria

Registered: 2004-02-20

Posts: 563

Website

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

Opportunity on Sol54 with a nice picture of the airbag, surprised to see after all this time there is little dust evident on it. [http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … 14L0M1.JPG]Air bag picture

---

There was a young lady named Bright.
Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day
in a relative way
And returned on the previous night.
--Arthur Buller--

atomoid

Member

From: Santa Cruz, CA

Registered: 2004-02-13

Posts: 252

Re: Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here

I'm completely flabbergasted! here is what just went down on sol 54 at the Opprtunity site:

Opprtunity goes over near the lander and takes [http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1F1329 … 1.JPG.html]a picture of the little crater-like feature with the white crusts collected inside the little wind rivluets

So the next thing they do is go and almost [http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1F1329 … 1.JPG.html]completely churn it into a dump! - i liked this beautiful little feature, thinking the white crusts might be salts, but they never checked it out. and i never heard any explanations as to what it was, a little crater? its not a raised feature so its cant be a dune, it might otherwise be slumping, but what dissappeared to create the gap to slump into. ice?

So why did they trench it?  Were they trying to see if anything was underneath it?  I hope they examined the white crusts before they destroyed them, no data posted yet, but there a few minor traces of white crusts still left. it would be foolish to waste such an opportunity (pun intended)

Also, you can see the  [http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1N1329 … 1.JPG.html]closest image yet of what NASA said was the escaped bunny kicking in the shade under the lander petal in front of the trench. somehow it doesnt look like the bunny but maybe we just cant see all of it.

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"I think it would be a good idea". - [url=http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Mahatma_Gandhi/]Mahatma Gandhi[/url], when asked what he thought of Western civilization.