Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads

atomoid · 2004-02-24 23:02:52

Interesting to note that long before the raw images go up on the [http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … unity.html]nasa rovers raw site they are up and viewable at [http://www.lyle.org/mars/]the lyle.org site

That RATed BB as in [http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1M1308 … 1.JPG.html]this nicely sharp image with the striations accross it look like it might have merely been scraped by the RAT and then dislodged and turned a bit. Note that the other BB on the right shown no such scratch marks. there doesnt seem to be any noticeable concentric layering inthe BBs, which would point to concretions, i hope im wrong, i hope these dont just turn out to be boring tectites...

GraemeSkinner · 2004-02-25 00:48:47

That RATed BB as in [http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1M1308 … 1.JPG.html]this nicely sharp image with the striations accross it look like it might have merely been scraped by the RAT and then dislodged and turned a bit. Note that the other BB on the right shown no such scratch marks. there doesnt seem to be any noticeable concentric layering inthe BBs, which would point to concretions, i hope im wrong, i hope these dont just turn out to be boring tectites...

Are tectites easily deformable? These BB's in the image link look more like they've been squashed in place likle the rest of the surface rather than scraped. It's such a pity that they can't pick items up and send them back. Any idea as to what size the microscope taking images at.

cassioli · 2004-02-25 02:00:26

That RATed BB as in [http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1M1308 … 1.JPG.html]this nicely sharp image with the striations accross it look like it might have merely been scraped by the RAT and then dislodged and turned a bit. Note that the other BB on the right shown no such scratch marks. there doesnt seem to be any noticeable concentric layering inthe BBs, which would point to concretions, i hope im wrong, i hope these dont just turn out to be boring tectites...
Are tectites easily deformable? These BB's in the image link look more like they've been squashed in place likle the rest of the surface rather than scraped. It's such a pity that they can't pick items up and send them back. Any idea as to what size the microscope taking images at.

I read several times on NASA site that micorscope's closeups give out images 3x3 mm wide (1 inch = 2.54 cm = 25.4 mm , so 3 mm = 0.12 inch)

Luca

GraemeSkinner · 2004-02-25 04:07:46

I read several times on NASA site that micorscope's closeups give out images 3x3 mm wide (1 inch = 2.54 cm = 25.4 mm , so 3 mm = 0.12 inch)

Is the 3 x 3 mm the area that the microscope is imaging? I've had a look on the NASA site but could find no data other than the basic facts on what the camera is. If the imaged area is 3 x 3 mm that gives the bb objects a diameter of 0.338 mm (rough calculation!). This is just my current views, the bb objects in this area could be the result (as some have already said) of a impact in Mars' distant past. If this impact created a shower of molten rock that forms into these spherules and are scattered into the surrounding softer ground which is then compacted into sedimentary rock, erosion then takes over and we again see the bb objects being released from the rock. We're talking a long timespan here, but that's not really a concern is it. The original impact crater would be long gone in all likely hood if this was the case - well we're talking enough time for the spherules to be incorporated into sedimentary rock and then erode out again.

Graeme

Arccos · 2004-02-25 05:20:18

Not 3x3mm. It is 3x3 cm.

GraemeSkinner · 2004-02-25 06:01:23

Not 3x3mm. It is 3x3 cm.

So 0.338 cm in diameter (I just worked out the calculations from the previous post) this still does not affect the spherules being the result of a impact.

Arccos · 2004-02-25 06:04:56

I guess, that a necklace made of these beads would be currently the most expensive jewel in the world .

Stu · 2004-02-25 11:37:51

GORGEOUS new 3D pic here, 3D fans...

[http://www.marsunearthed.com/Spirit/Spi … lyph53.htm]http://www.marsunearthed.com/Spirit....h53.htm

atomoid · 2004-02-25 15:35:53

GORGEOUS new 3D pic here, 3D fans...
[http://www.marsunearthed.com/Spirit/Spi … lyph53.htm]http://www.marsunearthed.com/Spirit....h53.htm

I knew there were skulls littered all over the place at the Spirit landing site that NASA has attempted to doctor out of the images (not only was it in the Enquirer, but Mars is the god of war, after all), but here lies the startling new proof that Mars is the Planet of the Apes! Its the fossilized head, helmet and all, of General Urko (or one of his hench-apes)!

GraemeSkinner · 2004-02-26 01:23:26

I guess, that a necklace made of these beads would be currently the most expensive jewel in the world .

Yes, but you just know you're going to see them on the shopping channels soon :;):
If the beads are around 3mm diameter they would not make much of a necklace, and we don't know yet if the beads would pose any health risk to humans.

infocat13 · 2004-02-26 02:56:47

wooooow a blue berry cut in half!
notice that is is homongenes.do not see any layers?

[http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … B032R1.jpg]blue berry cut in half

Stu · 2004-02-26 15:14:29

Looking at the latest gorgeous image from Spirit, looking back towards its lander...

[http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … A053R1.jpg]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery....3R1.jpg

(can't wait for a 3D version! ) ... a couple of questions spring to mind...

* What is the exceptionally-dark, large "boulder" over there on the right, a third of the way down from the horizon? MUCH darker than surrounding rocks - meteoric?

* On the same level as the aforementioned "dark boulder", and just above the right-hand side of a small, round, crater-like hollow seen above the rover's solar panels, there's a VERY bright object lying on the surface, just beneath a dark rock, which I can almost convince myself is reflecting sunlight in a quite metallic way... see it? None of the surrounding rocks - or, for that matter, anywhere on the image as a whole - have the same high albedo as this object, and it has me intrigued. Not suggesting for a MOMENT it's some kind of artefact, but it just looks strangely out of place, that's all I'm saying...

* Lots of the rocks in this area appear to have flat tops, some so flat they almost look sheared-off in a very similar way to the famous "Flat Top" rock imaged at Ares Valles by the Pathfinder lander back in 1997. Explanations?

And while we're at it, has anyone stumbled across any explanations for the berries/beads yet? Or heard an more about the gee-whizz "Mars soil may contain brine" story all over the net the other day? It all seems to have gone very quiet at JPL as far as announcements is concerned...

:sleep:

atomoid · 2004-02-26 16:06:40

Looking at the latest gorgeous image from Spirit, looking back towards its lander...
[http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … A053R1.jpg]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery....3R1.jpg
* On the same level as the aforementioned "dark boulder", and just above the right-hand side of a small, round, crater-like hollow seen above the rover's solar panels, there's a VERY bright object lying on the surface, just beneath a dark rock, which I can almost convince myself is reflecting sunlight in a quite metallic way... see it? None of the surrounding rocks - or, for that matter, anywhere on the image as a whole - have the same high albedo as this object, and it has me intrigued. Not suggesting for a MOMENT it's some kind of artefact, but it just looks strangely out of place, that's all I'm saying...

yeah, that bright white "bleached thigh bone" or whatever it is sitting on the dirt a few yards from where the rover drove past, hmmm, yes, yet another sttrange anomaly ignored and not explained by the rover team. heres [http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2N1308 … 1.JPG.html]a couple more pictures of it. these images were taken on sol 50, [http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/stereo … 2340-N.jpg]heres the 3D anaglyph. I'd have to assume its some peice of the lander that broke off during the bouncing and rolling process -is the direction that the rover is going, the same direction that the rover and all its EDL parts came in from in from? it seems so...

if youll remember from the [http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/rover-i … ge-12.html]lander and bouncemark location image that the parachute landed in a direction about 90 degrees to the left of the path of the rover. the backshell landed on the rim of Bonneville, where the rover is now travelling to as can bee seen [http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/rover-i … ge-11.html]in the rover history graph
given that the lander and heatshield separated and diverged enough to touch down in about a 40 degree arc that the rover is now traversing across the center of, its likely that the "bleached bone" is a securing fastener or something that was ejected during the heatshield or parachute separation process and fell through the air to land here. there's likely to be a few more parts in our path if were lucky...

Lars_J · 2004-02-26 23:26:20

Cool! - Opportunity spots [http://mer.rlproject.com/index.php?act= … ost&id=175]the large crater nearby! (pseudo-color)

For context, here's an [http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … B016R1.jpg]MGS overhead photo that shows the big crater relative to Opportunity's current location.

cassioli · 2004-02-27 02:23:09

Looking at the latest gorgeous image from Spirit, looking back towards its lander...

phew... we are getting a really long walk over the planet!!! Quite astounding image, IMHO. Sojourner has been totally eclipsed by these new rovers!

Luca

Rxke · 2004-02-27 03:38:21

Stu, that's weird, maybe my browser acting up, but when i click your link i get a picture with no threadmarks, so must be another than you're talking about? Also i seen no glinting thing in the pic, but i can see it on atomoids link, and it looks like yes, this is a different picture... On your link, no crater above the solar panels... I think the pic i et is the look-ahead version, wich is pretty impressive, too! Those 'hills' are getting closer at a remarkable speed...

Lars_J thanks!
Wheww, is that computer generated, too? looks unbelievably flat... Where's the crater ejecta?
Hope Opportunity won't get swallowed in Gusev Crater aka Sea of Dust...

Rxke · 2004-02-27 03:50:30

Coolest pic ever...

Neil Armstrong has been there!

[http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2N1308 … 1.JPG.html]look at bottom of pic... :laugh:

Arccos · 2004-02-27 06:14:53

Rxke: Opportunity's view of a nearby crater is not generated. You may find it also in the raw images on rovers homepage (in B&W of course).

Rxke · 2004-02-27 06:28:04

Thanks, Arccos, just checking, because to mee, it looked so etremely smooth, thought it was some composite from Odyssey with Opportunty or something (less detail that way)

Now how on eart did that double post of mine get there, with another in between? Ok, delete.

I've been going through the pics for hours, some while ago, and the previous discussion about the 'bad camera'... Those were 2,3 picked out of thousands! looks liike what they did on those pics was calibrating...
One day, I'm sure, someone will make a running movie of the traverse, will be incredible, all that detail.

But still, looking at the pictures, i *can't* stop thinking about real people on the surface, they'd be doing super amount of science in record time, compared to these (neat, i agree) rovers

GraemeSkinner · 2004-02-27 09:23:47

But still, looking at the pictures, i *can't* stop thinking about real people on the surface, they'd be doing super amount of science in record time, compared to these (neat, i agree) rovers

Rovers are limited in regards to their interaction with the landscape, I'm happy that they are there, giving us new images to study. But at the end of the day they can only ever be a stop gap measure before a manned mission - the sooner, the better in my view. I am still in favour of sending further rovers to Mars however, if only to find areas that the first manned mission should aim for.

Rxke · 2004-02-27 10:05:58

Graemeskimmer...
Agreed all both points...

(But) from a safety aspect of view, I think we might've already found a suitable landing-place: Gusev Crater... It's perfectly flat (enough) for big hardware to land on their 'feet.'

Now, as that first glimps of Opportunity promises, we could have *two* good candidates...

You could say 'but those places are so bland,' but i don't think the 1st manned mission(s) will be landing one more rugged terrain anyway...
Thing I have against Gusev: it's too low, when humanity would terraform in the future, it would probably drown, imagine the first historical settlement going to waste like that...
And terraforming they will...

GraemeSkinner · 2004-02-27 10:14:43

Landing the first manned craft on Mars will certainly change the bland area (if it is) into something a bit special :;):
It would, thinking about it now be useful if the rovers sent up in future could be of use to any manned mission (I don't mean as ride on buggies or anything like that), how about instruments that can be removed, or back up comms equipment. Hey, it costs a fortune to send these rovers up, why not make as much use of them after their alloted rovering lifespan is used up.

Rxke · 2004-02-27 10:54:00

I've been thinking the same thing, often.
But can you imagine the public outry if the interprid discoverers jury-rig Spirit into a communication-repeater or something other mundane like that?

It would be the right thing to do, though... What better salute to a rover than giving it a new lease of life? Once telecom is mature enough, restore it in it's former glory, and make it a shrine if you will...

Viking, OTOH, should be left alone: too old hardware, so better to preserve it for posterity.

GraemeSkinner · 2004-02-27 11:00:33

I agree that viking should be left as it is. I'd only be really happy for them to use purpose built equipment and that would need to be designed into future rovers. The public would be happy if you ask me that money spent on rovers was useful for future missions.

Palomar · 2004-02-27 14:09:16

[=http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040227/ap_on_sc/mars_rovers_3]Opportunity's Dusty BLUE Sunset...Sol 20!

*Is this GORGEOUS or what???!!

--Cindy

::EDIT::

"Opportunity also was ordered to reduce its daily communications and take more powered-down "naps" to conserve electricity. Less sunlight is reaching the solar panels as Mars heads into its winter season.

Next week, the rover team will attempt something that's never been done: photographing an eclipse from the surface of another planet, Bell said. A rover camera will attempt to record the passages of the martian moons Phobos and Deimos across the face of the sun."

*Cool! :laugh:

New Mars Forums

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