Many factors could point to biology on Mars

ERRORIST · 2004-02-14 16:22:48

1.) Some fossilized bacteria do have hematite in them here on Earth.A process know as diagenesis.
[http://www.astrobio.net/news/print.php?sid=820]http://www.astrobio.net/news/print.php?sid=820
[http://www.glossary.oilfield.slb.com/Di … diagenesis]http://www.glossary.oilfield.slb.com/Di … diagenesis
2.) Some bacteria feed on sulfur here on Earth and are very large.
[http://www.divediscover.whoi.edu/vent_cd....s1.html]http://www.divediscover.whoi.edu/vent_cd....s1.html
3.) The Mars rock investigation confirms sulfur in them.
[http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm … ry=Science]http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm … ry=Science
4.) Hematite has been confirmed near the sphereles on Mars. Notice where the most abundant location is. It is near the outcropping that contains the sphereles.
[http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/index.html]http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/index.html
4.) Some of the sheperles are hollow on Mars.
[http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994577]http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994577
5.) Some fossilized sphereles bacteria are hollow on Earth.
[http://seti.sentry.net/archive/public/1 … 000141.htm]http://seti.sentry.net/archive/public/1 … 000141.htm
6.) Fossilized sphereles have been found on the moon.
[http://www.panspermia.org/zhmur2.htm]http://www.panspermia.org/zhmur2.htm

atomoid · 2004-02-16 23:45:02

regarding the moved and "LOCKED" post: (OSTEOBLAST BONE CELL FOSSILS?) which reads: If you look closley at the image of Snout it looks like a chain of segmented single cell organisms are linked together near the leading edges of the layers that are protruding out a bit. You can see them just above, and to the left of the spherule.They blend in pretty well to the rest of the formation because the color is very close.It would be neat if those were bone cells? ANY THOUGHTS OUT THERE? [http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/rover-i … 51-med.jpg]http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004....med.jpg

I put this comment here because it deals with the same underlying issue.
The "segmented" appearance of the edges of the bedrock looks like mineral deposits to me.

From looking at the layer structure its hard to say whether this its fragile or is somewhat well-cemented? sculpted into its "termite gallery" appearance by wind action?

Most peculiar is the bumpy texture. From looking at the surface there does seem to be a bumpy "lizard-skin" rind that reminds me of the mineral coating on rocks that linger below a trickle of mineral-laden water. I have collected several rocks that have very similar bumpiness as this. I would expect wind action to take away this bumpiness over time, for instance, i wouldnt expect to see the hairline features between the bumps since wind action should be smoothing all these type of features out, not creating them. the hairline intersection between the bumps seems to suggest they are mineral precipitate.

Maybe the rind formed by minerals in solution when under cover of soil. Or perhaps the heat of the impact melted permafrost and disolved minerals and it remained liquid enough to mineralization the shattered bedrock. I'm not sure if this would give you the termite galleries but wind action doesnt seem to explain them ither. Intersting to consider, but I dont know if microorganism action is important or not on Earth in promoting bumpy precipitate forms like this. anyone?

I'm hoping soon they will press the arm into this stuff or drill it and look underneath the surface of the spherules and the matrix at the bumpy areas to see if there is a rind or not...

heres the example: [http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … 33M2M1.JPG]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery....2M1.JPG

ERRORIST · 2004-02-17 07:44:06

I would say those string like beaded bumpy areas are some other mineral harder on the mohs scale do to the fact they did not erode at the same rate as the host rock. If you look close you can see a shadow coming from some of them. They are most surly a raised area. They could also be a fossilized organism.
The spheres could be giant bacteria that feed on the sulfur in the rock as some feed on sulfur here on Earth.

atajurk · 2004-02-17 14:13:54

Hi, there. Did anyone think about some kind of sponge or funghi. That balls could be the spores.

ERRORIST · 2004-02-17 15:17:04

Don't know it could some kind of spore????

atajurk · 2004-02-18 14:45:58

I was thinking of sometnihg like this:
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/mpiercey/mush73.JPG

atajurk · 2004-02-18 14:48:08

[=http://www.telusplanet.net/public/mpiercey/mush73.JPG]http://www.telusplanet.net/public/mpiercey/mush73.JPG

ERRORIST · 2004-02-18 17:13:49

What is that?

atomoid · 2004-02-18 19:50:50

The bedrock is sulfur-rich. 2 "official" theories remain about the spherules: tectites or concretions.
What do these scenarios mean for life?

- [Ash/Tectites] The bedrock may be sulfur-rich volcanic ash, in which case the spherules are likely created by meteor impacts (as tectites) and are dispered either while the ash layers are growing, or the spherules may be much newer than the layers and merely have punched down benath the soft surface. The bedrock may have been heated by the meteor impacts and subsurface ice might have even melted to wet and cement the layers into the apparently soft matrix we see today.
Life as we expect it has little chance in this scenario since its not wet or warm very long.

- [Dust/Concretions] The bedrock is built up of of dust layers and has been percolated by geothermal (sulfur-rich) moisture, the spherules are nucleations from disolved minerals (concretions).
Life as we know it has a good chance since its wet a fairly long time and a good niche energy source exists (heat differentials and sulfur).

- [Hybrid environment of above] The bedrock is alternating proportions of ash and dust (might help explain the termite galleries and erosional difference in the layering), and both geothermal heating and crater impacts have percolated water around. Either tectites or concretions exist (they should look somewhat different from each other if they are created differently, and we dont see this). The sulfur could come from both processes.
Life would seem to have a similar chance as above.

What else... any budding exobiogeologists out there?

atajurk · 2004-02-19 12:00:34

What is that?

That is SEM image of pine mushroom (Tricholoma magnivelare) spores

Rxke · 2004-02-19 13:02:13

Get real. Those spores in the SEM picture are micron sized, the sperules on Mars are *a lot* bigger. A factor 10,000 at least...
The rovers' microscopes couldn't see those SEM spores if they were on Mars, to give you an idea of the differences in dimensions...

Shaun Barrett · 2004-02-19 20:28:40

They're talking about possible briny water existing in the soil at the Gusev site, which might be why the soil is sticking to Spirit's wheels.
They emphasise they're talking about very small amounts of water but they'll dig a trench with a wheel soon and see if the deeper soil is also 'clingy'.
They pointed out they're not expecting a pool of water in the bottom of the trench!

[Why not?!! :;): ]

ERRORIST · 2004-02-20 07:54:38

The Spirit rovers air bags broke through the top layer, and thus you can see the mud on it. The opportunity rovers air bag did not, thus no mud on it. The Opportinitys trench Looks like it has a brine solution causing the dirt to stick together accoring to yesterdays article.
A brine solution under ground will not freeze because it is insulated by the dirt from the cold air above it.It looks like the first one inch layer is frozen, and it becomes liquid below that.
Hematite is found in fossils also. The Opportunity rover found hematite on the surface where the spereles are. The spereles could be the source of the hematite, and could be fossils.It is not out of the question to have large bacteria that can form on another planet. There are large bacteria right here on Earth about the size of these periods........ They mention the shereles are about the size of a BB. Put 30 OR 40 periods together and you a bacteria the size of a BB.

"They pointed out they're not expecting a pool of water in the bottom of the trench!"

[Why not?!! ]

The bottom of the trench is now the new surface, and what brine that is there becomes frozen near the first inch of topsoil because of the cold air temperature. That frozen layer insulates the brine below, and it will still be liquid.

atomoid · 2004-02-20 16:54:34

You won't see water pooling in the trenches for other reasons:

- water pooling requires a water table. the water table on Mars has got to be pretty low by now. Note that Spirit is not in the lowest part of its environment as evidenced by the rolling bumps and ridges all around it, if there were a water table there would be ponding in the lowest parts. Maybe in the past that scenario was true, but now, any ponds have dried up, leaving the water table lower than the lowest land feature.

- If the water is a brine, then it should still migrate underground over millions of years to the lowest point of equilibrium, so we shouldnt expect to see an equal distribution of liquid water below any part of the frozen surface ice crust. the flowing brine would create pressure and still well-up in the lowest part regardless of any ice cover insulating it. perhaps this sceario was true in the past there should be discernable evidence of it visible from orbit.

- The water is most likely to be bound up as a very very thick brine, more like very salty moisture that doesnt flow around freely but just sticks to the soil particles, just barely enough water to salty mineral ratio to keep it from evapoating, sublimating or flowing, otherwise it would have been long-gone by now, and maybe thats what happened, there used to be lots of water with disolved mineral salts and it evaporated away until it reached a thick enough solution to not be taken away by these mechanisms, since it is insulated from light and wind by cover of a "desert pavement" of pebbles and dry cohesive crusts. The thick brine sticks the soil particles, holding them togehter and giving the observed muddy quality, a state which perhaps might last indefinately if its not disturbed too much, until the rover's wheel disturbed it and exposes it to sunlight and wind, then we'd expect this mud to soon dry out more and detach from the rover's wheel, unless it dries and hold together as a cake, but it still wont get a good grip oon the aluminum wheel, it should fall off soon even on its own, if not by driving it off by roling the wheel.

- conversely, i'm not sure if there is any liquid water below the surface, it may all be ice, where would heat come from? theres not much geothermal activity (that we know of). i think mars is likely to be freezing below ground level, i'd expect the warmest moisture to be at and just below the surface where the heat of the sun warms and frees it from its frozen state. it might freeze every night and the amount of moisture in the soils is small enough that this doesnt cause any permafrost-like freeze/thaw features to form as would be expected in such a case. there would still be a net loss of moisture to the air in this scenario, progressively dessicating the top layers of soil.

- perhaps the brine is enough to keep the moisture un-frozen even all the way below ground and there is a sort of brine-table with higher concentrations of water further down below still waiting to be discovered. if its big enough, there shight be some mark of this visible from orbit, slumping or susidence perhaps as it slowly loses volume over the eons.

[http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … 00R0M1.JPG]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery....0M1.JPG

ERRORIST · 2004-02-20 17:04:18

I agree, it can be kept liquid in many ways. Geothermal,solar radiation, chemical reaction. It would be neat if they can send a solar powered drill to drill a well for water. Even here on Earth they can drill, and find a water table in the desert. It would be neat to study the core samples also.

Shaun Barrett · 2004-02-21 07:09:08

Atomoid, you're a spoil-sport. :;):

ERRORIST · 2004-02-29 07:54:29

Perhaps, since the gravity is less on Mars water can make it closer to the surface by capillary action between the fine particles of sand.

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#1 2004-02-14 16:22:48

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#2 2004-02-16 23:45:02

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#3 2004-02-17 07:44:06

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#4 2004-02-17 14:13:54

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#5 2004-02-17 15:17:04

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#6 2004-02-18 14:45:58

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#7 2004-02-18 14:48:08

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#8 2004-02-18 17:13:49

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#9 2004-02-18 19:50:50

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#10 2004-02-19 12:00:34

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#11 2004-02-19 13:02:13

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#12 2004-02-19 20:28:40

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#13 2004-02-20 07:54:38

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#14 2004-02-20 16:54:34

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#15 2004-02-20 17:04:18

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#16 2004-02-21 07:09:08

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

#17 2004-02-29 07:54:29

Re: Many factors could point to biology on Mars

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