An Idea for the ISS - Let private companies take over

Mad Grad Student · 2004-02-03 22:28:23

Lately the International Space Station seems to be a lightning rod of sorts for those opposing NASA and vexed at the fact that people haven't gone farther from Earth than Hubble altitiude in over 30 years. In short, it now has an extremely bad rep, disliked by those both for and against the space program, which can't be good for it's further development.

I've always been a strong supporter of the ISS, especially since I saw the Imax movie Space Station 3-D. Okay, so it's not going to take us to the Moon or Mars, but the ISS gives us the opportunity to do things in zero-g that we've never done before, and open up new horizons in many fields of research. However, most people seem to have forgoten that exploration is about holding new territory, not just getting more, and so have lost their ability to see the benefits of the station.

Now, there are some big problems with it, foremost the money one. The ISS has become the black hole sucking away NASA's funds, a big part of its unpopularity. What I propose is that we first finish the thing, on time and budget. NASA needs to pull their act together and complete the thing like our international partners are counting on. After that, it's not their concern, let the companies that could benefit from research run the thing.

In this scinerio, as soon as the station is completed its operations will be turned over to a company like Space Adventures. They in turn would offer two seats per Soyuz visiting the station every two months or so (Hopefully more when the hab module is installed). The seats would be offered to private companies interested in conducting zero-g research. These companies would finance the trips (Which would probably be cheaper than shuttle research anyway) and send their own employees along, after a breif checkup to make sure they're up to a minimal fitness requirement. This gets rid of the muss and fuss of filing everything through NASA and lets the guys actually getting the benefits of the station to access it firsthand. Everybody wins!

So what are we waiting for? Let's finish the station and get on the other things, that probably should have been done years ago. Mars, here we come!

dicktice · 2004-02-04 09:43:34

I agree with your objectives for the ISS. The only trouble is, to populate it with more than the two (essentially, maintenance) crew members only, based upon Soyuz capsule size limitations, you'd have to have more lifeboat docking ports for evacuation, if and when an emergency occurs. Have you anything to contribute along those boringly practical lines, Mad Grad. (I admit: it's a bummer.)

Rxke · 2004-02-04 12:38:00

Don't see a problem... ISS has docking ports aplenty... it's just a problem of money/cargo apacity, today, but with ESA's unmanned cargo hauler on the horizon, that would be one problem less. The Russians would be very pleased to get more paying customers, as long as they have a presence up there, they're happy with more people, why not?
and there is still a market outside tourism: a lot of countries have not yet got a citizen in space, offer a country a package they can't resist, like '20 mil for your best scientist in orbit, full coverage etc, wow your neighbours'

For an American, space might be common stuff, but for a lot of proud countries (including European!) it's still a novel thing, and their new astronauts become national heroes overnight...

I guess this market alone woulld be good for at least 10-20 launches... and you could 'competing' countries bid, to get a better place in the line etc...
Benefit: ISS gets money AND favorable news AND science done by the best scientists available...

dicktice · 2004-02-04 19:58:17

Rxke: Won't you please describe a scenario describing (say) ten launches in a year, with dockings and undockings and population counts including crew and tourist movements? Not to put you on the spot, or anything, but you did say, "Don't see a problem." I just don't know enough myself, and to save time, I'd like to take it up from where you leave off. Believe me, I'm all for it if feasible.

Mad Grad Student · 2004-02-04 21:22:51

Granted, under my plan the ISS will need more work. So what? If NASA can't get it's act together than I assume that some private company like Boeing or Lockheed or (more likely) Scaled Composites can take over and design a simple hab module, new docking ports, and emergancy escape vehicle. Maybe the Chineese would be willing to, who knows? It really wouldn't be as hard to finish the station as everyone thinks it is, NASA just drags their heels at every corner preventing anything resembling efficency.

Of course, the station wouldn't be limited to research or tourism. Anyone willing to fork over the money can do whatever they want, provided it's within safety guidlines. In the book (Not as good as the movie) of Contact there's a space station called Methusalh (I believe) that serves as a retirement home for obscenely rich people hoping to extend their lifespans by a few years (Don't ask me how). I'm not saying that this would be the only thing the ISS is good for, but it's a possibility.

Besides, the station's modular anyway. I supose that anyone really serious about doing stuff there could supply their own parts to add on to the station. Within a few years this could make it a very powerful and unique lab, definately worth the wait. I guess my point was that the ISS is still woth something, even if I'm a minority here at New Mars. Anyone else?

Rxke · 2004-02-04 23:49:34

Dicktice, not sure what you mean... I think 5-6 launches would be enough... ESA every 6 months, Russia every three months, once there are 2 Soyuzes up, you can keep them there 6 months, so you have to swap one every 3 months, is 4 per year

total 6 launches/year, give Russians funds, and they can launch every month, if they want, those Soyuzes even laungh in snowstorms, they're built like tanks!

So: scenario: American(!) 'science/tourist' company sells tickets, money is secured, they bu launches from Russia....

1st launch ESA cargo: *lots* of spares,food water...
1st launch Soyuz/swapout: one up with tourist/scientist; one down (old Soyuz.: one soyuz up, 3 crew in orbit.
Three month later: 2nd Soyuz: 3 up, none down (first tourist is lucky: 6 months up): so cargo and 2 soyuz up, 6 crew in orbit.
3 months later: swapout: old Soyuz down, taking scientist and 1st crew down, while newly launched Soyuz brings up new 'tourist/scientist' and 2 crew up...

swapout mission every 3 months, add a spare Progress now and then to bring samples down, and a ESA cargo now and then (those cargo vehicles stay attached for 6 months IIRC too, great for storage of waste etc...)

So 4-6 launches spread over 2 countries would be feasible, i'd think...
Question: who pays ESA?

dicktice · 2004-02-05 09:54:48

Okay, that's a start, but what I would want to know (and perhaps can dig it up myself, given time) is which docking ports, and when occupied, according to a time-table. We can leave the question of funding economics to the non-engineering types to ponder, but that still leaves the completion of the ISS to be carried out. How? My idea, posted not too long ago, was to divide the truss components into lengths short enough to be sent up by Soyuz (like the Russian habitat module, earlier) along with redesigned attachment-hardware for assembling the severed parts in orbit. Etc.

Rxke · 2004-02-05 12:38:38

MadGrad, IIRC, russia is already building a commercial module (probably one of their scrapped ones that was already half buitl...)

Dicktice, I'm afraid such a timeline is a bit hard to do, because i have the dim impression there is no *real* final ISS now (considering the exra modules the Russians might add...)
But in the current configuration, there are at least 4 free ports...
I'm a bit too busy at the moment to try and make such a list anyhow...

And the cutting-up of trusses is not feasible IMO, too costly (redesign etc) and you would have to add some way of automated manoeuvring hardware, not cheap, not light, i'm afraid...

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#1 2004-02-03 22:28:23

Re: An Idea for the ISS - Let private companies take over

#2 2004-02-04 09:43:34

Re: An Idea for the ISS - Let private companies take over

#3 2004-02-04 12:38:00

Re: An Idea for the ISS - Let private companies take over

#4 2004-02-04 19:58:17

Re: An Idea for the ISS - Let private companies take over

#5 2004-02-04 21:22:51

Re: An Idea for the ISS - Let private companies take over

#6 2004-02-04 23:49:34

Re: An Idea for the ISS - Let private companies take over

#7 2004-02-05 09:54:48

Re: An Idea for the ISS - Let private companies take over

#8 2004-02-05 12:38:38

Re: An Idea for the ISS - Let private companies take over

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