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Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: Crew Preparations - Pre-Mission Training

*Okay folks, I'm wondering about the following [if it's been touched on before, my apologies; I haven't read anything directly pertaining to this elsewhere at the message board]:

Prior to the Apollo missions, the team of astronauts would train extensively in simulators.  For *hours*.  They needed to get a "fix" on each other's moods, irritability level, stress level, sense of humor, personality quirks, habits, etc. -- including training with each other and learning to work as a team with as minimal an amount of conflict and tension as possible.  This, for men going on [at average] a 1.5-week mission.  The same went for the back-up crew.

Once Mars Direct is given "the green light," how much preparation time will be given to the MD astronauts?  I presume the MD [or whatever the mission will be officially called] people will plan the best way of getting the potential crew(s) acquainted and familiar with one another -- both in good and bad aspects -- etc., etc. -- ala the Apollo missions.

Approximately how long would such training take, particularly the aspects of human personality interaction?  What is the desired length of *logged time* the astronautical candidates should spend in relative isolation with one another, to ensure they get along well enough?  Sure, they will be subject to a battery of psychological testing, for the purpose of finding strengths, weaknesses, and compatibility...but direct experience and interaction is better than test results.

I'm wondering if the best plan would be to have the astronautical candidates spend first a few days in relative isolation, then increasing it to a week, later to a month, etc., prior to the actual flight.  They're going to be spending nearly 3 years together, right?  And, of course, the same should go with potential "backup candidates."

Thoughts on this?

--Cindy

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Phobos

Member

Registered: 2002-01-02

Posts: 1,103

Re: Crew Preparations - Pre-Mission Training

I'm wondering if the best plan would be to have the astronautical candidates spend first a few days in relative isolation, then increasing it to a week, later to a month, etc., prior to the actual flight.  They're going to be spending nearly 3 years together, right?  And, of course, the same should go with potential "backup candidates."

Thoughts on this?

It might be good to throw the astronauts together for a month on those Mars stations the Mars Society builds.  I've often questioned the value of those stations, but they could be a good way of acclimating the astronauts to living in the hab module that will be home for three years.  I imagine also that spending a month or two in such a hab module out in the middle of nowhere will give a good indication of the social dynamics of the particular crew. 
     The biosphere project I believe lasted a year and was self-contained.  Even though the people got on each others' nerves, they seemed to have come out ok considering that they developed some problems with producing food.  So hopefully it's a good indication that things can go relatively smoothly.

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To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

Byron

Member

From: Florida, USA

Registered: 2002-05-16

Posts: 844

Re: Crew Preparations - Pre-Mission Training

I'm wondering if the best plan would be to have the astronautical candidates spend first a few days in relative isolation, then increasing it to a week, later to a month, etc., prior to the actual flight.  They're going to be spending nearly 3 years together, right?  And, of course, the same should go with potential "backup candidates."

Thoughts on this?

It might be good to throw the astronauts together for a month on those Mars stations the Mars Society builds.  I've often questioned the value of those stations, but they could be a good way of acclimating the astronauts to living in the hab module that will be home for three years.  I imagine also that spending a month or two in such a hab module out in the middle of nowhere will give a good indication of the social dynamics of the particular crew. 
     The biosphere project I believe lasted a year and was self-contained.  Even though the people got on each others' nerves, they seemed to have come out ok considering that they developed some problems with producing food.  So hopefully it's a good indication that things can go relatively smoothly.

I think there will be a great deal more to this than just putting them into a simmed hab for a month prior to departure.  The ability of four or six people (I would hope six, as four people wouldn't be enough to carry out the myriad tasks facing them on Mars) to get along and work together as a harmonious, seamless unit will be *critical* in whether the entire mission is successful or not.

From what I heard about the Biosphere experiment, some of those people were about to go *crazy* with each other..and if they had to stay in there any longer than they did, big trouble would have resulted, imho.  It would have been like a high-octane "Survivor" episode..lol.  In all seriousness, however, this is something that needs to be avoided on the first Mars mission at all costs.  Remember, we're not writing a novel here..   Some of the steps that should be taken to mitigate this kind of risk include:  Pre-selection of all crew and back-up a full three years in advance of the mission, to fully establish everyone's working relationships with each other; allow the crew a great deal of input in drawing up the mission plans; allowing them input on the design and set-up of the hab to be used on Mars (more windows please!); and the group as a whole be constantly evaluated by psychiatric personnel during the 3-year run-up period to make certain there are no budding rivalries, jealousies, or anything else that could be a corrosive influence on the mission.  While it's true that people can "fake it" for the shrinks, I really don't think they'd be able to pull it off for three years straight..lol.

I'm sure there's still much more to this than the thoughts above...but the point is that going to Mars will be exceedingly difficult, not only from a physical standpoint, but from a pyschological one as well, the fact of which has the potential to become lost within the heady excitement of going to a whole new world...

B

Phobos

Member

Registered: 2002-01-02

Posts: 1,103

Re: Crew Preparations - Pre-Mission Training

Some of the steps that should be taken to mitigate this kind of risk include:  Pre-selection of all crew and back-up a full three years in advance of the mission, to fully establish everyone's working relationships with each other; allow the crew a great deal of input in drawing up the mission plans; allowing them input on the design and set-up of the hab to be used on Mars (more windows please!; and the group as a whole be constantly evaluated by psychiatric personnel during the 3-year run-up period to make certain there are no budding rivalries, jealousies, or anything else that could be a corrosive influence on the mission.  While it's true that people can "fake it" for the shrinks, I really don't think they'd be able to pull it off for three years straight..lol.

I was already going on the unsaid assumption that the crew had already gone through psychiatric evaluations and other selection criteria.  I just think putting the crew together for a month in a hab might be a good way to forsee any little problems that might arise between the crew members, and more importantly, to acclimate them to the environment they'll have to live in for the next three years.

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To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

C.COMMARMOND (FR)

Member

Registered: 2002-06-09

Posts: 45

Re: Crew Preparations - Pre-Mission Training

Hello Cindy,

Very clever question!!!

And while we test the crew, why don't test the Mars Hab ?

I think Mars project will last a few years before anyone goes to  Mars. So Mars Hab, rover and other stuff will be ready long before the crew go to Mars.

I think that after the standard selection (Psys, technical tests, health tests...), the Mars station could be built in a cold desert (a cold place were it never rains like altiplano in South America) and teams could live there simulating life on Mars for long periods. We could even set phone lines with 4-20 minutes delays to simulate communication with Earth.
This crew could test the green house, vehicles, hab usability...

I think each test could last 3 months. The advantages are to check systems, their interfaces to users and crew ability to live together and 'slow' communication consequences (with Earth) when facing problems. It also covers problems with air regenerators, energy systems, diet of the crew (what they eat, drink... and blood check-ups). Even if this is done in 1G gravity.

Each crew could test variations on the systems to select the best ones. And different crews could be check too.

When 2 crews are selected, they could spend a longer time in the simulation hab (6 months ?) to get a perfect knowledge of all the systems.

I say this because in Mars Direct or other scenarii, a first version of the systems is sent to Mars as backup and we need (i think) at least 3 years for that to be done. 3 years we could use for crew selection and training.

And because there will be problems with this training, we can know how good are the psys of the crews and if it is possible to ease a problems through radio communications (with the big delays).

CC