Constitutional Amendment - The Management of Martian Civilizations

Pendragon · 2004-01-27 18:37:21

Someday, Mars will be run by whoever best deploys the triple threat of lawyers, guns and money

Well, theoretically you could probably get away with 2 of the 3. For example, if one was very Machiavellian (spelled correctly?) then the excess use of guns could be substituted for lawyers. The "cosmic dust" that clark mentioned doesn't require cooperation, just destruction. But that is an extreme example that hopefully we won't ever see.

Well said, Bill, exactly. And one of my objections not only to Scott's proposal but to Martian "constitutions" in general is that they worry about the lawyers in the absence of guns and money. It can't be backed up, what's the point?

I don't believe there is much worry about the lack of guns. The fact that Mars will be a very hostile environment and will be until exstensive terraforming in achieved could possibly result in Mars itself being a weapon.

The US President changes every 4 years, right ? And US is the biggest military power of the world. What could happen if some president in the future, and his stuff, will be some Hitler-like characters, determined to conquer the world (or blast it with neutron bombs and then colonize). Could they ever be stopped ? By Americans ? By others ? By all the countries allied ?

That is why we have the concept of checks and balances. The President (theoretically) doesn't have the ability to declare war. It takes an act of Congress. Of course in practicality the Preeesident can deploy troops for a limited time without Congressional approval. (I heard a rumor that last year it was changed to an indefinite, but limited basis. If that is true then it is very scary indeed). If the President ever abused this power, that is what impeachment is for (i.e. not over lying about an affair). Also, if the President, lets say, calls for nuking the rest of the world, then it is understood that the troops are supposed to disobey any order that they see as immoral.

In short, there are a lot of ways that are supposed to stop such a figure, if they work or not *shrugs* hopefully we will never find out.

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-27 21:34:22

Bill:

You wrote,"Couldn't we ask this same question about anybody who tried to set up a Martian government? This is why I find the political philosophy considerations of Mars settlement so fascinating. It really is a blank piece of paper."

Yes, the political philosophy considerations are interesting. I believe that it is useful to consider the difference between (1) a group of people founding a government based on a claim to have the exclusive right to control a particular territory and (2) a group of people founding a government based on the promise of individuals to be obedient to the group as a whole.

The Mayflower Compact is an example of the second type of government. That Compact was signed on November 11, 1620 a.d. The people who signed the Mayflower Compact thereby combined themselves "into a Civil Body Politic... unto which we promise all due submission and obedience." At the time that they founded their government, they were NOT asserting the right to control any particular territory. The Mayflower Compact can therefore be regarded as a "social contract" that was binding on the parties, rather than as a group's claim to have the right to use force against any person who enters a particular territory.

Mundaka · 2004-01-28 03:47:26

Rxke · 2004-01-28 05:25:56

didn't see Lennon coming with the axe. (Sorry, its three in the morning

Lennon-Lenin! Yihaa!!! Laughin myself silly, trying to imagine John Lennon, singing 'imagine' with a Rusian acccent, wild eyed, axe-wielding...

(Actually, it thought it was butcher Stalin that 'got rid' of him... Could be wrong (probably am))

(or is that a stale joke, did i over-read something?)

EDIT: I am NOT making fun of you, for as you said, it was 3 AM...

Mundaka · 2004-01-28 12:43:39

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-05-27 07:27:01

an old thread maybe worth a bump

What are the sovereign citizen movements, are they a loose grouping of litigants, activists, tax protesters, financial promoters and conspiracy theorists who say they will be answerable only to their particular interpretations of the oldest common law?

Polish and the Fifth column

In the USA there is a Constitution Party, formerly the U.S. Taxpayers' Party until 1999, a political party in the United States that promotes a religious conservative view of the principles and intents of the United States Constitution.

Making news headlines

'It’s Time to Reacquaint Americans With the Possibility of Changing the Constitution. Here’s Where to Begin.'
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/02/opin … ution.html

Poland passes contentious bill to examine Russian influence
https://www.dw.com/en/poland-passes-con … a-65750111

Australia Queensland "Sovereign citizen" deemed unfit to hold gun license.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-27/ … /102398316

The original subject discussed of Lost Ancient Civilization or collapse of a civilization has also come up as a topic on newmars recently.

The story of the Lost Roanoke Colony seems to show evidence of a fight with local Native American tribes, currently Mars has no civilization so will not have any Native man to conquer or exploit or fight. Walter Raleigh an English statesman, soldier, writer and explorer played a part in English colonization of North America. The Roanoke colony was founded in 1585, but after only five years, when a ship visited the colony in 1590, the colonists had all disappeared, the fate of the 112 to 121 Roanoke colonists remains unknown to this day. Returning to England they brought back two natives: Wanchese, a Secotan, and Manteo, a Croatan whose mother was the chieftain of Croatoan Island. Who knows what the original Natives thought, maybe they expected their Native American friends to come back within a week but then declared them 'kidnapped'? The expedition's reports described the region as a pleasant and bountiful land, alluding to the Golden Age and the 'Garden of Eden', the accounts may have been embellished by Sir Raleigh a salesman maybe not selling disinfo but a good story so he could get more ships and money. Queen Elizabeth was impressed with the results of Raleigh's expedition during a ceremony to knight Raleigh, she proclaimed the land granted to him "Virginia" and proclaimed him "Knight Lord and Governor of Virginia". Sir Walter Raleigh proceeded to seek investors to fund a colony.

another topic

'Martian Security'

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=151

Another Scott G. Beach thread
The Sudden Fall of Maya Civilization - A Lesson for Martians
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2725

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-05-27 07:46:40)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-04-14 02:14:47

How will new border checks affect British residents of France?
https://www.connexionfrance.com/article … -of-France

entertainment legal battles

'Disney asserts its constitutional right to get the hell away from Gina Carano'
https://www.avclub.com/disney-asserts-i … 1851401808

records and accusations against Kirby Police Chief, Roxanne Cardona?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNDgXkNje-U

used the Texas rangers swat team to raid the home of a local activist who had video/audio recordings of her committing crimes

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#51 2004-01-27 18:37:21

Re: Constitutional Amendment - The Management of Martian Civilizations

#52 2004-01-27 21:34:22

Re: Constitutional Amendment - The Management of Martian Civilizations

#53 2004-01-28 03:47:26

Re: Constitutional Amendment - The Management of Martian Civilizations

#54 2004-01-28 05:25:56

Re: Constitutional Amendment - The Management of Martian Civilizations

#55 2004-01-28 12:43:39

Re: Constitutional Amendment - The Management of Martian Civilizations

#56 2023-05-27 07:27:01

Re: Constitutional Amendment - The Management of Martian Civilizations

#57 2024-04-14 02:14:47

Re: Constitutional Amendment - The Management of Martian Civilizations

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